Tips For Flying in ICE

[LJPilot]

VAD can be found on WSI in the radar section. I think of it as looking above the radar station. For the most part, I ignore the wind vector. Its the best way to find cloud tops early in the morning when there are no pilot reports. For example, if the returns stop at 5000 ft, more than likely 5000 feet is the top of the clouds.

 

[idoitupsidedown]

And remember, after the hotplate has succumbed to the ice leaving you unable to see through the windscreen, follow the loc/GS down to the flare eyeball the edge lights on the left side of the runway as. Lights get closer, move to the right; lights get father away, move to the left. Don't get your hopes up for a greaser, just be happy your on the ground.

 

[Doc Holiday]

Avbug has some really great tips. Another option is to try it out for yourself. Sometimes you can find icing at altitude when the temp during the approach is above freezing (the ice will shed, and quickly). If you are flying an airplane that is appropriately equipped, consider trying to pick up some ice when you are positive that it won't stay with you during landing (i.e. you definitely have an out). Then you have the oppourtunity to learn about how that particular airplane accumulates ice and in the future, when it's 'for real', you have a better idea of what to expect.

That being said, ice is weird. Some of it will shed completely from a wing. Sometimes you blow the boots and none of it comes off. In my experience, though, the initial visual cues of ice accumulating are very similar regardless of how well the airplane can rid itself of that particular ice.

Again, what I said about trying to pick up ice is very conditional. You NEED to have a sure way out. You also need to be in a airplane that is certificated for flight in icing conditions. IMO, seeing it at altitude with many safe alternatives and creating a frame of reference is far superior to doing it for the first time on an approach when you are playing for keeps.

 

[N60OSU]

Same here, googled vad and didn't come up with much.

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Velocity Azimuth Display. It uses the doppler reading of the radar to determine the winds on each sweep. All that I have seen use the standard wind barb presentation. Works pretty well unless the winds are real calm or the air is very dry.

 

[Alin10123]

Hey guys,
Figured i'd do a search on this topic and this is the latest thread there was on icing. Instead of starting a whole new thread, i will just continue in this one. Just some questions on icing.

My instructor does not have much experience in icing. So i figured this is a good resource. Where do you draw the line at icing? what about for aircraft that aren't certified for known icing? What about aircraft with no deicing equipment at all?

For example, there was one day where i was departing from the georgia area, N of Atlanta. The temperature was maybe 7 or 8 degrees above freezing. The previous person that had flown the aircraft before me had flown it back from Charlotte NC. VFR. The conditions at my departure airport were about 3000-3500 feet clouds. I think the bottom layer was very broken. Barely visible to the eye. Anyways, the aircraft was a 172SP. The VFR pilot reported light icing on the wheels and wheel wells and that was it. No icing accumilation whatsoever on the aircraft at all. With that said, about an hour later i had a flight southbound heading to the central florida area. Weather in Florida was fine. it was departing the Atlanta area that was going to be a problem. However, with that said i talked to numerous instructors at the airport trying to get a 2nd opinion, i recall all of them said that if the previous pilot had only light icing on the wheels, then it should be ok to go. Especially since i was heading southbound towards warmer air within a short distance. The other reason being that there isn't exactly a shortage of places to land quickly within the departure area. They also said because it was only light icing and only on the wheels and not on the important parts of the aircraft, and worst case if i did encounter any icing, i would still have plenty of time to find an airport to land at. I also figured if the guy before me got in, i could get out. So of course i planned to go but i had to file IFR since there was low IMC around the macon area which is in S Georgia. By that time, the icing conditions would have been gone so i would have been in the clear anyways.

But when i called fss the briefer advised me to wait a little bit. He said there weren't many low level pireps, only ones at 8000 ft+. Most of the ones up there were reports of icing. So the only thing he could go on was the forecast. he said based on the forecast for right now, it looked like there was icing. Hence, i decided not to go and postponed the flight until later that night when it cleared up. But with that said, i was thinking. Where do you draw the line? Would it have been ok to try to go in that situation?

There was another pilot with me in the briefing room that was flying a pilatus. When the fss advisor advised him of the icing he said that he had a heated prop, deicing equip on the wings, and that he should be fine. So he went ahead and left. Of course i realize that it was an apples to oranges comparison.

But hypothetically lets say for example, If the pireps report light icing at lets say 4000 ft. Then the cloud tops are 5000 ft. Is it possible to climb through the icing altitudes to get to the safe altitudes at 5000? Given that it's light icing, i think a 172SP could make the climb without incident. Or... what if i had stayed at 3000 ft which was below the freezing level? That would have given me about 3 different "outs" at the airports within a few minutes of each other in the departure area.

Where exactly do you draw a line at "known icing"? What makes something "known icing?" Is it a pirep? or is it the forecast that determines it?

Also, what limits the aircraft? For example, lets take an aircraft like the columbia. It's got a heated prop and hotplates on the wings and stabilizer. So with that said, an aircraft with that much power and with those pieces of deicing equipment. In the hypothetical conditions that i just gave, would it have been safe to attempt to climb through the light icing? Or would it have been illegal?

Regarding "known icing certified". Does that just mean the aircraft is legal to fly into icing? or it can safely climb through icing?

thoughts?

 

[pilotpat]

My short/simple answer: If an aircraft is certified for "known icing" it can fly in cold clouds. If its not certified for "known icing" it cannot fly in cold clouds.

Remember, known icing conditions exist when visible moisture or high relative humidity combines with temperatures near or below freezing. Cloud = visible moisture. So, basically, if you fly through a cloud near or below freezing and you're not in a certified aircraft, then you're not legal. The FAR's don't allow you to experiment.

 

[Lead Sled]

My short/simple answer: If an aircraft is certified for "known icing" it can fly in cold clouds. If its not certified for "known icing" it cannot fly in cold clouds.

Remember, known icing conditions exist when visible moisture or high relative humidity combines with temperatures near or below freezing. Cloud = visible moisture. So, basically, if you fly through a cloud near or below freezing and you're not in a certified aircraft, then you're not legal. The FAR's don't allow you to experiment.

That's a pretty good "working" definition for now - I understand that the FAA is working to make things a little less nebulas than they are now. (Since when has a bureauracy ever been able to make things less nebulas?) It wasn't all that long ago that the FAA turned a blind eye towards those who operated non-certified aircraft in icing conditions as long as they were operating under part 91. This is no longer the case.

In aviation, there are some things that will kill you if you give them little or no heed - screwing around in ice and messing with t-storms are two of them. You need to understand that even known icing certificaton doesn't make you impervious to ice - it only buys you a little time to get out of it and all bets are off if you happen to stumble into severe icing. Aircraft performance permitting, that time is best used to either climb up through it; descend down through it or maybe shoot an approach. The one thing that known icing certification doesn't allow you to do safely is sit there in icing conditions and droan on...

You mentioned your instructor in your post and your profile indicates that you've got a couple of hundred hours. Let me recommend a couple of books to add to your aviation library - Weather Flying by Buck and Instrument Flying by Taylor. These are classics and will go a long way towards helping understand how to fly weather and instruments in the real world. However, there is one caveat - Weather Flying was written back in the day when the FAA turned their blind eye towards pilots flying non-certified airplanes in icing conditions. Pilotpat's comment applies today.

LS

 

[pilotpat]

Sled...my father in law bought me that Weather Flying book. Great read, especially when I was starting out and it still holds true in my flying today. And I'll also agree that even in my Falcon 20, just because I can turn on bleed heat for the wings and engines, does NOT mean I stay in those conditions. First thing I ask is how high the cover is and hope to break out around 10K or 12K, as the winter clouds aren't USUALLY as built up. That being said, I don't recall the report where I read it, but something about icing conditions usually are in a "confined" area 2-5,000' thick and like a 50 mile radius. Don't quote me on that, but have you seen anything like that written. I'm going to have to research some more, but I do have an online class I'm attending next week on NASA's Ground/Inflight Icing for recurrent.

I'm ALWAYS learning!

 

[AC560]

It wasn't all that long ago that the FAA turned a blind eye towards those who operated non-certified aircraft in icing conditions as long as they were operating under part 91. This is no longer the case.

The latest and greatest on known icing conditions.

 

[Alin10123]

My short/simple answer: If an aircraft is certified for "known icing" it can fly in cold clouds. If its not certified for "known icing" it cannot fly in cold clouds.

Remember, known icing conditions exist when visible moisture or high relative humidity combines with temperatures near or below freezing. Cloud = visible moisture. So, basically, if you fly through a cloud near or below freezing and you're not in a certified aircraft, then you're not legal. The FAR's don't allow you to experiment.

So is there an actual number that means near freezing? +/- 2 degrees? 4?