"Tipping" Time for changes

[FL000]

This is not a tipping business, y'all. Sure, I was glad to get the few tips that I received when I flew charter, but I never expected a dime. Line guys and gals probably get tipped because there are different degrees of performance they can produce, from very bad to outstanding. The tip is used as a carrot so that passenger can get gold star service on the ground both that visit and the next visit.

Pilots have one standard of performance: perfection. You leave on time, you fly fast, and you arrive safely. A tip won't change any of that, and quite frankly I'm embarrassed that there are pilots out there that expect to be tipped. Why don't you just put a pillbox on your head and run around the tarmac while your CP grinds an organ? If you want to get treated like a professional, act like one.

 

[Timebuilder]

If you want to get treated like a professional, act like one.

I have always acted like a professional.

I have yet to be paid like one in aviation.

 

[Midwest]

What I can't believe are the tip jars at places like airport Burger Kings. I do not believe they deserve any kind of tip for their services. Now, if they were paid $2.13/hr like I do, then it would be a different story

It is sad that as a pilot, one cannot make enough to put food on the table. There are servers at my restaurant that I know make around 35K a year, not bad given the demands of the job. Like many have said before, maybe things would change if paying pax knew what their pilots were making ..................... .............. maybe not.

 

[A Squared]

"It's time for those of us flying charter to let the public know that not only is it appreciated to receive a tip, but it should be expected when you provide them with great service."

No, if you're unhappy with your terms of compensation, you need to disuss that with your employer. You should definately not be informing your employer's clients that they should be expected to make up the difference of what you think you should get paid. I can't imagine anything more tacky and less professional. If you "let the public know" that you expect a tip, you have reduced yourself to the crassness of the panhandling snack bar cashiers who put out "Tips Jars" to let you know that they expect you to pay them for handing you a bag of chips and a soda.

Frankly, if I owned a charter business and discovered that my employees were panhandling my customers, I think that I would be sorely tempted to look around for employees who behaved more professionally. We don't have very high expectations of snackbar cashiers, however, I think it's reasonable to expect something a little better from pilots.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Astra Job???


yuk. had more than my fill of poorly made Isreali products for now......

 

[Timebuilder]

Frankly, if I owned a charter business and discovered that my employees were panhandling my customers, I think that I would be sorely tempted to look around for employees who behaved more professionally.

Would you also be motivated to pay them a professioanl wage, so that this was not an economic issue, or is that okay that the captain is making less than an auto mechanic?

 

[A Squared]

Would you also be motivated to pay them a professioanl wage, so that this was not an economic issue, or is that okay that the captain is making less than an auto mechanic?

Completely seperate issue. You knew what the pay was when you accepted the job. At that point, the pay was acceptable to you (I mean *you* in general, not you specifically, Timebuilder). Regardless, it is not a mark of professionalism to expect tips, and it is extraordinarily boorish to inform people that you expect to be tipped.

As for your question, that's difficult. I'd like to say that I'd pay good salaries, but that is easy to say, sitting here knowing that I will likely never actually be in that position. I would hope I would be able to pay my pilots well but I'm not so naive that I don't realize that tough economic realities would test that resolve sorely.

What about you? Would you pay a lear FO $40k/anum while you could fill the seat for $20k and were competing against operators who were?

 

[FL000]

I have always acted like a professional.

I have yet to be paid like one in aviation.

So when you got that Lear job a while back, did you contemplate turning it down since it didn't offer "professional" pay?

I didn't think so.

 

[Astra Guy]

Gulfstream 200,

Well the G200 might be weak but the Astra is the best performing in it's class.

I should have known better by commenting to you about missing the job opportunity. $95K to start, flying 2.5 days/week and ~300 hours/year for a 50 year old privately held company with a growing department operating under the IS-BAO standard would probably not interest many.

Sorry I mentioned it.

 

[justApilot]

fwiw....Just like when you add the tip to your bill in a restaurant, you assume that the waiter/waitress will take care of the bus. Well I think that charter customers add there tips onto the final bill assuming that it will be given to the pilots. You might want to ask your boss where your tips are!

 

[Timebuilder]

So when you got that Lear job a while back, did you contemplate turning it down since it didn't offer "professional" pay?

Oh, man, you raise a VERY good point!!!

I took that job based not on the base pay rate, but based on a LIE that was told to me before I signed on.

You see, I was guarnateed 13 days a month of flying, and time and a half for every day more than that. I was told that after a few months "you'll be so tired of flying, you'll be begging for a day off".

Well, during 54 weeks of employment, I had exactly ONE day of OT.

One.

So, I fully expected my pay to be professional, that's true. I expected to make over 40k that year with OT, flying as many hours as an FO might at a regional.

It was BS.

So, thanks for trying to be a wisea$$. It was very instrumental.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Astra guy, (er..Chief Pilot)

no really thanks for mentioning it, and your job sounds GREAT but..

your 95K would be a pay cut. I hate pay cuts. My kids hate pay cuts.

Do you get 4-5 weeks vacation to start?. I like vacation, my kids like vacation.

I fly 275 hrs a year now. (wouldnt mind a few more)

normal hotel digs are Ritz's or Grand Hyatts - we go far and I like that, but ya gotta be comfy when away.

I think our oldest aircraft is 5 years old. How often does that Israeli junk break?? dont lie.....I been there...rememeber, its not a Gulfstream when it breaks down at BIKF at 0300.

An Astra would get laughed out of our hanger. Its a hunk of Craap, no offense. Great if it pays you that good salary, but its junk....(OK, an opinion) I bet the average Astra switches hands every 2 years. How long you been there??...keep that in mind!

50 yr old company?? we are 3X older than that...in fact, we had a flight department for more than 50 yrs!


Your gig sounds great and all for an Astra, but it would be a large step down right now. And I stress RIGHT NOW as no job is 100% stable in this biz..and Im no airplane snob, but operators of Astras dont seem to last long...and I am just into stability these days..

good luck to you!

 

[Astra Guy]

Gulfstream 200,

I am not trying to impress anyone, by the way. I will say that I believe many on this board would love the opportunity that I described. Maybe I am wrong...but I doubt it.

I am happy for you, really I am about $95K being a pay cut. You should consider yourself very fortunate, as I consider myself.

Vacation time is negotiable and yes that amount is possible, dependent on the strength of the candidate.

I can understand wanting to fly more than 275 hours. Most any pilot worth his salt would.

We can choose where we stay in hotels with no limitations. Common sense prevails in most cases. After all our expenses do affect the bottom line but I guarantee you that I have never pinged anyone on staying at a very nice hotels. Not all of our destinations have Ritzs or Hyatts availabe but we have all stayed in them on the road.

 

[Astra Guy]

Sorry Gulfstream,

I wasn't finshed. Hit the wrong button.

I am happy for you that all of your aircraft are so new. That is frankly pretty rare. As for the Astra breaking it actually leads the pack in the fleet of Gulfstreams in terms of dispatchability. We have had the Astra for three years with internal maintenance and have not had to cancel a flight yet. Flying it 450 hours/year and three days/week. It is not craap as you describe. Doubt your Falcon has that dispatchability rate, but then again I would never call what you fly junk. Actually the G-IV has a much better rate than any Falcon. Trust me I believe the Falcon three engine series is one of the best designs ever developed. The Falcon 2000 is about as good as it gets, depending upon flight profiles.

Calling what I operate as being laughed out of your hangar is just a little condescending, don't you think? And no the Astra doesn't switch hands every two years. We have many loyal folks operating the aircraft. Just not as many as Falcon types since we have fewer in the field.

Glad your company and flight department has been around for so long. I will not live to see the day that either our company will be in business for 100 more years or probably that our flight department will be 50 years old. That, in an of itself, says nothing.

BTW we are not in the 135 business. 91 all the way. As far as stability is concerned the flight department has survived through three restructurings in three years. The company has quadrupled in sales in the 13 years I have been there through conservative acquisition and being the technological leader in their niche. Not a dot.com, by the way. Stability is not an issue.

We each have our own gigs. Sounds like yours is good. You should work on not being quite so condescending, IMHO, by bad mouthing another operator's aircraft. You know not of what you speak in that regard.

Moral of the story is we all had to start somewhere in this business. We all want to believe that what we do makes a difference professionally and personally. In my situation I know it does. Hope your contribution makes you feel the same way.

Good luck to you, as well!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I apologize

Dont take it personal. Its just an airplane...

I really would not care what someone says about the equip I fly - my job does not define me - it pays the bills and gives me time off. Thats all I want. I dont know or care what the dispatch rate is on my equip...I dont decide what to buy or how to manage it. I fly it safely when they ask me to. thats what I get paid for. Im not a chief pilot/parts buyer/report maker/aircraft washer etc.....

As far as condescending - yes I was - overly and on purspose as a response to your witty remarks about your great job that I, in effect, turned my nose up at.

Sorry, I just never asked or expressed ANY interest in an Astra opening! - and Im not impressed with your gig like you thought I would be..

Be humble - you never know who you are talking to.

"Stability is not an issue" hummm....congratulations - you have the only pilot job in the world where you can say that.

Anyways...Sorry we got off on the "wrong foot"!