"Tipping" Time for changes

[Timebuilder]

So when you got that Lear job a while back, did you contemplate turning it down since it didn't offer "professional" pay?

Oh, man, you raise a VERY good point!!!

I took that job based not on the base pay rate, but based on a LIE that was told to me before I signed on.

You see, I was guarnateed 13 days a month of flying, and time and a half for every day more than that. I was told that after a few months "you'll be so tired of flying, you'll be begging for a day off".

Well, during 54 weeks of employment, I had exactly ONE day of OT.

One.

So, I fully expected my pay to be professional, that's true. I expected to make over 40k that year with OT, flying as many hours as an FO might at a regional.

It was BS.

So, thanks for trying to be a wisea$$. It was very instrumental.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Astra guy, (er..Chief Pilot)

no really thanks for mentioning it, and your job sounds GREAT but..

your 95K would be a pay cut. I hate pay cuts. My kids hate pay cuts.

Do you get 4-5 weeks vacation to start?. I like vacation, my kids like vacation.

I fly 275 hrs a year now. (wouldnt mind a few more)

normal hotel digs are Ritz's or Grand Hyatts - we go far and I like that, but ya gotta be comfy when away.

I think our oldest aircraft is 5 years old. How often does that Israeli junk break?? dont lie.....I been there...rememeber, its not a Gulfstream when it breaks down at BIKF at 0300.

An Astra would get laughed out of our hanger. Its a hunk of Craap, no offense. Great if it pays you that good salary, but its junk....(OK, an opinion) I bet the average Astra switches hands every 2 years. How long you been there??...keep that in mind!

50 yr old company?? we are 3X older than that...in fact, we had a flight department for more than 50 yrs!


Your gig sounds great and all for an Astra, but it would be a large step down right now. And I stress RIGHT NOW as no job is 100% stable in this biz..and Im no airplane snob, but operators of Astras dont seem to last long...and I am just into stability these days..

good luck to you!

 

[Astra Guy]

Gulfstream 200,

I am not trying to impress anyone, by the way. I will say that I believe many on this board would love the opportunity that I described. Maybe I am wrong...but I doubt it.

I am happy for you, really I am about $95K being a pay cut. You should consider yourself very fortunate, as I consider myself.

Vacation time is negotiable and yes that amount is possible, dependent on the strength of the candidate.

I can understand wanting to fly more than 275 hours. Most any pilot worth his salt would.

We can choose where we stay in hotels with no limitations. Common sense prevails in most cases. After all our expenses do affect the bottom line but I guarantee you that I have never pinged anyone on staying at a very nice hotels. Not all of our destinations have Ritzs or Hyatts availabe but we have all stayed in them on the road.

 

[Astra Guy]

Sorry Gulfstream,

I wasn't finshed. Hit the wrong button.

I am happy for you that all of your aircraft are so new. That is frankly pretty rare. As for the Astra breaking it actually leads the pack in the fleet of Gulfstreams in terms of dispatchability. We have had the Astra for three years with internal maintenance and have not had to cancel a flight yet. Flying it 450 hours/year and three days/week. It is not craap as you describe. Doubt your Falcon has that dispatchability rate, but then again I would never call what you fly junk. Actually the G-IV has a much better rate than any Falcon. Trust me I believe the Falcon three engine series is one of the best designs ever developed. The Falcon 2000 is about as good as it gets, depending upon flight profiles.

Calling what I operate as being laughed out of your hangar is just a little condescending, don't you think? And no the Astra doesn't switch hands every two years. We have many loyal folks operating the aircraft. Just not as many as Falcon types since we have fewer in the field.

Glad your company and flight department has been around for so long. I will not live to see the day that either our company will be in business for 100 more years or probably that our flight department will be 50 years old. That, in an of itself, says nothing.

BTW we are not in the 135 business. 91 all the way. As far as stability is concerned the flight department has survived through three restructurings in three years. The company has quadrupled in sales in the 13 years I have been there through conservative acquisition and being the technological leader in their niche. Not a dot.com, by the way. Stability is not an issue.

We each have our own gigs. Sounds like yours is good. You should work on not being quite so condescending, IMHO, by bad mouthing another operator's aircraft. You know not of what you speak in that regard.

Moral of the story is we all had to start somewhere in this business. We all want to believe that what we do makes a difference professionally and personally. In my situation I know it does. Hope your contribution makes you feel the same way.

Good luck to you, as well!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I apologize

Dont take it personal. Its just an airplane...

I really would not care what someone says about the equip I fly - my job does not define me - it pays the bills and gives me time off. Thats all I want. I dont know or care what the dispatch rate is on my equip...I dont decide what to buy or how to manage it. I fly it safely when they ask me to. thats what I get paid for. Im not a chief pilot/parts buyer/report maker/aircraft washer etc.....

As far as condescending - yes I was - overly and on purspose as a response to your witty remarks about your great job that I, in effect, turned my nose up at.

Sorry, I just never asked or expressed ANY interest in an Astra opening! - and Im not impressed with your gig like you thought I would be..

Be humble - you never know who you are talking to.

"Stability is not an issue" hummm....congratulations - you have the only pilot job in the world where you can say that.

Anyways...Sorry we got off on the "wrong foot"!

 

[Astra Guy]

I will accept the humility advice as I hope you will. You may never know who you might be talking to as well.

We can agree on one thing. We both have good situations professionally and we should be thankful for that.

 

[Timebuilder]

I'm genuinely happy for both of you. Do you realize what a blessing it is to have a great aviation job nowdays?

Maybe you do. I'm glad to know that not every pilot is forced to shift gears. I was pretty aggravated at first when I lost my job, but I am successfully ramping up the revival of my "old" career, and I hope to approach my aviation earning this year as I get more commercial and narration work in the expanding economy.

My hat's off to you. Enjoy it while you have it, since you never know when it will end.

 

[JediNein]

Be humble - you never know who you are talking to.

That's what I love about this board. I might have to wait for both Gulfstream 200 and Astra Guy to depart before I can land, and aside from the very few that know each other by voice, we'll never know it. And if I happen to be working over a student, well, we'll never have the chance to know it.


Glad to hear that 95K is a pay cut for someone these days. And that outfits still exist where the planes are pristine and the bean-counters have made the corporate jet fleet expense justifiable to the bottom line. I bet the people that both of you haul around accept your refusal to fly when it is not safe to do so. I bet they even have alternatives in case a flight can not be made. It's a refreshing contrast to the bottom-feeders that take up too much of my time.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

 

[FN FAL]

your 95K would be a pay cut. I hate pay cuts. My kids hate pay cuts.

Damm, 95K a year could put an awfull lot of NFA stuff in the toy locker. I must be doing something wrong.

 

[KlingonLRDRVR]

Darn it, just when I started to believe that flying broken Lears haulin checks for 50K was a good deal you guys go and ruin it for me...

 

[Astra Guy]

JeidiNein and FNFAL,

Time is money, as they say. Imagine yourself being in a CEO's or VP's position. Your salary and benefits add up to as a minimum, 250K to gawd knows what. Every working hour you are not only paid at a good rate but your value is a multiple of what you are paid, in some cases 10X that amount. Do the math and you can see what your value/work hour is. Add another possiblity into the equation. What if you have a group of four upwards to ten that might be travelling with you? What is the value of the collective groups' time? Maybe you want to work together enroute on a flight for customer meeting or looking at another acquisition target. Can't do that on the airlines.

I bring this up simply to point out that the airlines don't fit the business model in terms of productivity and time savings. Add to this that every time you get on an airliner the pilots are an unknown entity.

Yes, you are right that the folks in the back do not put pressure on the crews to fly into unsafe situations, if they are smart. Everyone wants to live, right? My folks tell me all of the time "You are in charge. If you tell me that it is unsafe then we don't want to go."

Corporate aviation is not a choice for corporations who have bottom line problems without adding an aviation department. However, it has been proven many times that having the asset can help increase efficiency, effectivity and the ultimate bottom line.

Both Gulfstream 200 and I have been given opportunities that most can only dream of. I can speak only for myself but I can say that I was in the right place at the right time with the right qualifications for the right company. I am very fortunate, indeed. I never forget who I work for. My job defines me professionally. Fortunately it does not define me personally.

FNFAL, you are not doing anything wrong as far as I know. Just stay educated and work towards being in that right place at that right time with those right qualifications for that right company. It could be the airlines or it could be otherwise. Keep your options open and then go for it!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

nope. 95K dont put much in the toybox man...

think about where one must live to fly the bigger equip..major metro areas.

How far you think 95K (or a little more) goes in the greater LA or NY area...you are just hangin on to middle class..you want to get the best return on your money, best schools you can , and decent neighborhoods?....thats 375K to start. now....

- taxes (even if you lie cheat and steal)
- a modest house
- 401Ks
- stock purchases
- college funds
- IRAs
- home repairs on that modest home
- maybe a little bit for entertainment...

you are just getting by...living decent and thankful for it...but thats it!!!

 

[ShinerBocknabtl]

So there I was...Eating lunch at Applebees last week with an empty water glass half way through my meal that included cold fries. BTW I was drinking water cause that's all I could afford, I don't get paid much for what I do. But at any rate, the glass was still empty when I was done eating.

I didn't leave the waitress a tip, should I feel bad about this? For some reason I don't. I think tips are something great for people who deserve them. Those deserving in my book are people who go above and beyond the call of duty to provide a service to paying customers and throw in a great attitude and possibly a neighborly smile from time to time.

Color me cheap but the highschool kid waiting my table that can't refill a beverage or ask if I need anything because he's too busy trying to get in the hostess' pants is not deserving of a tip. This whole percentage thing for tips at restaurants needs to go. Tipping is voluntary, not mandatory. I do understand that their wages are low and they count on tips but then again, you get what you're worth in the public food service industry.

A bit off the whole pilot tipping subject but it pisses me off when people tip for poor service at restaurants. Every one of us knows the routine of operating equipment within it's limitations, federal regulations, and company policy in less than mediocre weather for less than desireable wages and knowing that years of hard work can end for one simple mistake or busting a regulation or policy.

Why should we GIVE this hard earned money to someone that could care less about the end result of their labors?

 

[FL000]

I didn't leave the waitress a tip, should I feel bad about this?

Sure you should. How about a reduced tip? Was her only duty to keep your water glass full, or was she doing other things for you? Did you mention to her the cold fries, and if so, how did she handle it?

You could have given her 5 or 10% to make a statement, but you ended up shafting her based on the one part of the meal that you didn't even have to pay for.

 

[ShinerBocknabtl]

The place was dead, she was sitting at a table on the other side of the restaurant talking with friends.

 

[Capt. Tex]

95K dont put much in the toybox man...

HUH?!?!?! You can't live on 95K? Want to trade jobs???

 

[350DRIVER]

nope. 95K dont put much in the toybox man...

A brand new H2, a few vacations, more Armani attire to make closet stay scenic, some D&G suits, etc. I sure could add to my "toy box". If that is "pocket change" then surely I will accept a donation and be very thankful towards you.

3 5 0

 

[blueridge71]

I have a problem with tipping. I think that employees should be paid a decent wage by the employer. Anything above that should be because they did a good job, and not because it is semi-mandatory to do so.

I base my restaurant tips on how well the waitress keeps my glass filled. If I have to flag her down or suck on ice, then the tip starts decreasing.

The other tipping situation that I commonly encounter is hotel van drivers. I've personally stopped tipping these people until I can afford to pay my bills. I load/unload my own bags whenever possible.

As a regional airline FO, I make little enough that I qualify for WIC. That is a travesty. And I'll take a pay cut in the next few months. Thank you ALPA for looking out for me.

At least I'm not furloughed.

 

[FL000]

The place was dead, she was sitting at a table on the other side of the restaurant talking with friends.

Well that's a different story. That reminds me of the clerks who sit on their arses yapping on the phone while I'm trying to check out. Having a lot of experience waiting tables, I can tell you that, most of the time, leaving an incredibly SMALL tip will usually get their attention more than leaving no tip at all. That way they know you didn't "forget."

 

[Midwest]

Sure you should. How about a reduced tip? Was her only duty to keep your water glass full, or was she doing other things for you? Did you mention to her the cold fries, and if so, how did she handle it?

You could have given her 5 or 10% to make a statement, but you ended up shafting her based on the one part of the meal that you didn't even have to pay for.

How much could your meal have been? Was it just you? If so, it couldn't have been much more over $15, and you couldn't have left only a buck.

Here's what it is like being a server from my perspective. Pay is 2.13/hr, rarely will I ever see anything higher than $0.00 on my paycheck. Now, where does my pay come from? TIPS!!!

Tipping,
I usually average around 18% and I am dissapointed when I get under 15%. When I am at work, I bust my tail trying to take care of my tables, making sure the drinks are filled and such. I also live in a pretty well to do area, so that may explain why people tip better.

Problems with service,
Double or Triple seating: When the host/hostess seats two or three tables in my section at one time. THiS SUCKS. One table is going to get hosed at first while I get the other tables started with their drinks. However, by the time I get to the delayed table they are usually ready to go with the entire meal order, so that helps out a bit.
Long Meal times: This is pretty much due to problems with the kitchen. I take the order, go over to the computer and put it in. Your order is now out of my hands, when it is ready I will bring it out to you.