"Tipping" Time for changes

[Timebuilder]

The area of aviation where this is a problem does not usually use an FA. You couldn't pay an FA that little.

 

[Astra Guy]

I empathize with everyone who believes that they are not being paid enough to do their job in aviation. We have been in an economic down cycle. For most aspiring to go to the airlines and continue in that capacity without being furloughed you will probably be disappointed. It is typically a 10 year cycle high to low. If you get in on the beginning up the upswing then you might have a chance. If you come in later you will not have a chance...in other words you will be on the street in some capacity for at least part of your career.

For everyone there are several factors to reaping the money that you expect...this is all about expectations. Be in the right place, at the right time, with the right qualifications with the right attitude and you will probably succeed. If you are missing any of the above four you will not, at least in the near term.

As in any other industry if you are not making what you expected, you are very unhappy about it and it is not paying the bills it is time for a career change. As I once told my wife when she was complaining about her working conditions, quit or quit bitching. She quit. Life is much better for her and I.

It is not uncommon guys, for many in the workforce to change directions, regardless of where they started. Supply and demand determines how many of us can make a living in this business. Bottom line is demand is low right now. It is coming back but it will be some time before we recoup what has been lost.

Keep it professional. Say no to tips and fly safely...always.

 

[bart]

No doubt about it, being a pilot was once a profession. Most senior pilots flying now remember when it was no doubt a profession. However, pilots are rapidly becoming technicians. Doctors, degreed engineers, etc, are examples of professionals. Are any of them unionized? Do any of them accept what amounts to slave wages for the first half of their careers?

I don't think so.

I wish that it wasn't true that a being pilot is becoming less of a profession by the minute and more of a technical field. But that is certainly the direction it is headed and the stagnation in wages that has been brought about by regionals, LCCs and what is becoming the demise of the majors is only accelerating it.

There seems to be some recovery in traffic, however you can bet all the smart carriers are going to add capacity very judiciously, when absolutely necessary. So I would not expect a recovery of the majors in time to save several from looming bankruptcies and/or major restructurings.
Sad, but that is the way I see it.

 

[Timebuilder]

So I would not expect a recovery of the majors in time to save several from looming bankruptcies and/or major restructurings.

Some of my friends went to US Air a long time back. Unfortunately, I think US will be the first to crumble.

 

[Catbird]

Astra wrote -"Big difference between an attorney and many pilots in this business. Education for one. Can you imagine a message board for attorneys where they spew immature, back biting nonsense we see daily on this board?"


Your kidding,right? You must not be in a court room very often or watch TV. The idiotic rantings from barristers is 90% crap. Go sit in a court room and listen. The fellow running the zoo should not be called a judge. More like a referee in a wrestling match between "Bulldog Bletches" and "Curtis the Crusher". Don't even venture into the domain of the slip and fall, asbestoses, and medical pitchmen delivering their spew every 2 minutes on every TV channel. "Can you imagine a message board for attorneys where they spew immature, back biting nonsense". Do you hear your cell ringing? It's Jerry Springer offering you a platform to deliver your "wisdom".

 

[jergar999]

Sorry for jumping on my soapbox, but being a professional pilot like I am I just got done with a nine hour shift delivering pizza. Out of 22 deliveries only 9 tipped.

 

[Alchemy]

The line guys are probably making half what you do. Although in a perfect world, the pax should tip the pilot say, an extra 10 bucks an hour then the plot should chip some of that in to the line guys depending on how many services you required on the ground. If you ask for lav, fuel, gpu, potable water, windshiled cleaning, and gold cap cabin cleaning service, I think at least $20 is in order for the line crew. If you just ask for 2 or 3 of those, $10 would be good enough, 1 out of 3 and a tip really isn't necessary, unless of course it was lav service, in which case $5 is usually a reasonable tip.

That's just my take on it.......

$10/hr tip for the crew
$5 line crew tip for a lav
$10 line crew tip for a lav + 2 other services
$20 line crew tip for a lav and more than 2 other services

 

[Astra Guy]

Catbird,

The TV situations with Doctors and Lawyers making their pitch are viewed by their own kind as being on the lower end of their profession.

Negativity does not help anyone. I focus on what works to keep this profession a profession. Everyone has a choice in how they come across....I prefer to stay on high ground. Do as you wish. I wish you good luck.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

$5 for lav service??

c'mon, break off at least a 10 for that miserable job...

 

[Astra Guy]

Gulfstream 200,

You should have applied to the position we had open. We were in need of an Astra PIC. I believe we are making an offer to a candidate today.

 

[FL000]

This is not a tipping business, y'all. Sure, I was glad to get the few tips that I received when I flew charter, but I never expected a dime. Line guys and gals probably get tipped because there are different degrees of performance they can produce, from very bad to outstanding. The tip is used as a carrot so that passenger can get gold star service on the ground both that visit and the next visit.

Pilots have one standard of performance: perfection. You leave on time, you fly fast, and you arrive safely. A tip won't change any of that, and quite frankly I'm embarrassed that there are pilots out there that expect to be tipped. Why don't you just put a pillbox on your head and run around the tarmac while your CP grinds an organ? If you want to get treated like a professional, act like one.

 

[Timebuilder]

If you want to get treated like a professional, act like one.

I have always acted like a professional.

I have yet to be paid like one in aviation.

 

[Midwest]

What I can't believe are the tip jars at places like airport Burger Kings. I do not believe they deserve any kind of tip for their services. Now, if they were paid $2.13/hr like I do, then it would be a different story

It is sad that as a pilot, one cannot make enough to put food on the table. There are servers at my restaurant that I know make around 35K a year, not bad given the demands of the job. Like many have said before, maybe things would change if paying pax knew what their pilots were making ..................... .............. maybe not.

 

[A Squared]

"It's time for those of us flying charter to let the public know that not only is it appreciated to receive a tip, but it should be expected when you provide them with great service."

No, if you're unhappy with your terms of compensation, you need to disuss that with your employer. You should definately not be informing your employer's clients that they should be expected to make up the difference of what you think you should get paid. I can't imagine anything more tacky and less professional. If you "let the public know" that you expect a tip, you have reduced yourself to the crassness of the panhandling snack bar cashiers who put out "Tips Jars" to let you know that they expect you to pay them for handing you a bag of chips and a soda.

Frankly, if I owned a charter business and discovered that my employees were panhandling my customers, I think that I would be sorely tempted to look around for employees who behaved more professionally. We don't have very high expectations of snackbar cashiers, however, I think it's reasonable to expect something a little better from pilots.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Astra Job???


yuk. had more than my fill of poorly made Isreali products for now......

 

[Timebuilder]

Frankly, if I owned a charter business and discovered that my employees were panhandling my customers, I think that I would be sorely tempted to look around for employees who behaved more professionally.

Would you also be motivated to pay them a professioanl wage, so that this was not an economic issue, or is that okay that the captain is making less than an auto mechanic?

 

[A Squared]

Would you also be motivated to pay them a professioanl wage, so that this was not an economic issue, or is that okay that the captain is making less than an auto mechanic?

Completely seperate issue. You knew what the pay was when you accepted the job. At that point, the pay was acceptable to you (I mean *you* in general, not you specifically, Timebuilder). Regardless, it is not a mark of professionalism to expect tips, and it is extraordinarily boorish to inform people that you expect to be tipped.

As for your question, that's difficult. I'd like to say that I'd pay good salaries, but that is easy to say, sitting here knowing that I will likely never actually be in that position. I would hope I would be able to pay my pilots well but I'm not so naive that I don't realize that tough economic realities would test that resolve sorely.

What about you? Would you pay a lear FO $40k/anum while you could fill the seat for $20k and were competing against operators who were?

 

[FL000]

I have always acted like a professional.

I have yet to be paid like one in aviation.

So when you got that Lear job a while back, did you contemplate turning it down since it didn't offer "professional" pay?

I didn't think so.

 

[Astra Guy]

Gulfstream 200,

Well the G200 might be weak but the Astra is the best performing in it's class.

I should have known better by commenting to you about missing the job opportunity. $95K to start, flying 2.5 days/week and ~300 hours/year for a 50 year old privately held company with a growing department operating under the IS-BAO standard would probably not interest many.

Sorry I mentioned it.

 

[justApilot]

fwiw....Just like when you add the tip to your bill in a restaurant, you assume that the waiter/waitress will take care of the bus. Well I think that charter customers add there tips onto the final bill assuming that it will be given to the pilots. You might want to ask your boss where your tips are!