"Tipping" Time for changes

[LRplt]

I can't take it anymore without venting on this subject. After just completing a flight into a mountain airport holding for 30 minutes and shooting an approach to near minimums, the passenger of this chartered flight had the nerve to get off the plane and proceed to tip the line guys $100 each for supervising him getting off the plane. Do these charter passengers realize what the crews go through to get them to their destinations and in the case of Learjets take care of flight attendant duties as well. It's time for those of us flying charter to let the public know that not only is it appreciated to receive a tip, but it should be expected when you provide them with great service. They must think that we all make over 6 figures. It is pretty sad that a Limo driver makes more than us and makes matters worse when we see them handed multiple c-notes just from driving the passenger a couple miles in a car. Unbelievable!!!
JUST HAD TO VENT!!!!!!!

 

[Timebuilder]

It's a matter of perception.

The question is then, how to educate the public about the current dismal wages for all but the most senior in our business?

I'm open to hearing ideas.

But really, who would be interested in listening, except other pilots??

 

[LRplt]

I started to think about this topic after reading an article in the L.A. Times a few weeks ago. The article was talking about services that were provided that involve customary tipping.
Ie. limo driver, waiter, hair stylist, etc. I was thinking that it would be nice to throw tipping charter pilots into the mix. Maybe trying to get another article published somehow. It is time for the public to find out how much charter pilots really make.

 

[lumax]

I disagree with the mentality that just because you provide a service you now deserve a tip. When a limo driver or a waiter take a job, part of their wages are expected to come from tips. That is not the case for pilots. I can’t ever remember hearing a new hire F/O at a commuter expecting to receive tips because he/she safely flew 8 legs in one day. And we all know how much a new hire gets paid at the commuters. In case you don’t, its not six figures. By the way, how many other professional positions in today’s work force get tips? Lawyers? Doctors? Managers?
I think the gesture of tipping has gotten out of hand. Everybody now expects a tip just for doing the job that he/she was hired to do in the first place.

 

[Timebuilder]

I disagree with the mentality that just because you provide a service you now deserve a tip. When a limo driver or a waiter take a job, part of their wages are expected to come from tips. That is not the case for pilots.

I think that's his point. If we are seeing such low wages, tipping shopuld be a part of the compensation package.

Professional? How many pilots are being paid as professionals?

Flight instructors? No way.

Check haulers? Nope.

Regional pilots? No.

Charter pilots? Are you kidding?

Show me a lawyer who signs on with a law frim for $18,000.

 

[350DRIVER]

Most of the pax "assume" the pilots are much more compensated than your typical driver, line guy, csa, etc, etc, so I think a lot has to do with that. When I was flying charter I never "expected" any money but usually I would recieve a tip every now and then. It also think it depends on "who" the pax are and just how often they charter the planes out. The funny thing I remember was always getting invites to golf with pax, go to sporting events with them, etc, etc, and I can only think of one occasion where I had to take them up on the offer since they only had "3' people and needed one more to make a foursome. On this particular flight the pax did NOT understand what the word "NO" meant and after running out of "excuses" on why I did not want to go I finally gave up and had no choice but to go. After a flight I did not look foward to getting up at 7am just to golf at a tour spot even though I love to golf. I learned after this to never give in to pax desires/wishes no matter how much they would pressure.

3 5 0

 

[crxpilot]

I've always found it best to have the flight attendant pass my hat around with a quick PA announcement that I will be accepting tips before landing and based on the amount tipped, it will determine how good the landing will be. I've got all the time in the world to wait, well at least until I'm out of gas........

 

[lumax]

I understand that a lot of pilot positions do not pay as well as they should, but that is because the employers know that these are usually short term jobs for pilots trying to make their way to a better paying job.
Such is the case for interns at law firms or hospitals. Long days with little pay, if any. They don’t expect a tip. Their reward is when the hard work pays off and they get a permanent position and good wages.
Most pilots are not in this business for the money because if we were, we would probably choose another career. I know I would

 

[xjcaptain]

Sucks....Been there too. But there is another option. Drive the limo. Ever tip your doctor or mechanic? I'll bet the mechanic who busted his knuckles working on your car, or burned the crap out of his arm working on your exhaust didn't get a tip. You paid his employer for the service you needed performed and didn't think about it again.

 

[Astra Guy]

Timebuilder,

Big difference between an attorney and many pilots in this business. Education for one. Can you imagine a message board for attorneys where they spew immature, back biting nonsense we see daily on this board?

If we want to be considered professionals in the same category as doctors, lawyers, etc. it might be time we act like it.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I dont want a TIP - I want a good SALARY.




"but...heck..as long as you get to fly, thats all that matters right??"

" you are doing what people dream of? "

"as long as you can go to work and say you love your job, the money doesn't matter??!!!"

"I made a lot of money in my previous job and this is WAY better"

"money is just a bonus in this job"

"I dont make much money, but I sit here under the stars as Captain of Flight XXXX with a big smile on my face"



ALL quotes taken from TOOL aviators here.....you made your $hitty bed now sleep in it and hope for some tips!!...

 

[Timebuilder]

I understand that a lot of pilot positions do not pay as well as they should, but that is because the employers know that these are usually short term jobs for pilots trying to make their way to a better paying job.

That WAS true. How many more regional pilots can be hired in the next ten years? Fractional pilots? Major pilots? Compare your estimate to 1988. This isn't just a cyclical downturn in hiring. We have an unprecedented glut of pilots.

I'll bet the mechanic who busted his knuckles working on your car, or burned the crap out of his arm working on your exhaust didn't get a tip.

I left a mechanic job right before I became an instructor. As a mechanic, I regularly received tips, mostly from older gents who appreciated great work, a firm handshake, and a proper, clean uniform. Perhaps they also understood that out of the over $60 per flat rate hour that they were paying, I was making only $21.

If we want to be considered professionals in the same category as doctors, lawyers, etc. it might be time we act like it.

Philosophically, I agree with you. I don't think many passengers are aware of what goes on in pilot chat or BBS forums.

I feel very certain that they think ALL pilots make the salary of a retiring Delta captain, and that's why we don't get tips very often. As I said, it's a matter of perception.

The question is, how do we let some truth seep out into the public awareness?

 

[501261]

This is embarrassing, asking for tips. If you are a professional you should be paid as a professional! Stop lowering the bar by taking jobs that pay so horribly that you need to ask for a F#$%^ tip, just so you can build time.

 

[Timebuilder]

This is embarrassing, asking for tips.

I've never asked for a tip.

I can understand how someone making $28k as an FO might be upset as he steps off the plane and sees a lineman get a $100 bill for bringing out his car.

Can you understand that? I can. It's because the passenger doesn't know that the lineman probably makes more than the FO, with overtime and benefits.

 

[njcapt]

I can't take it anymore without venting on this subject. After just completing a flight into a mountain airport holding for 30 minutes and shooting an approach to near minimums, the passenger of this chartered flight had the nerve to get off the plane and proceed to tip the line guys $100 each for supervising him getting off the plane. Do these charter passengers realize what the crews go through to get them to their destinations and in the case of Learjets take care of flight attendant duties as well. It's time for those of us flying charter to let the public know that not only is it appreciated to receive a tip, but it should be expected when you provide them with great service. They must think that we all make over 6 figures. It is pretty sad that a Limo driver makes more than us and makes matters worse when we see them handed multiple c-notes just from driving the passenger a couple miles in a car. Unbelievable!!!
JUST HAD TO VENT!!!!!!!

You can't change the general public's perception of pilots. All you can do is make yourself feel better about the lack of respect you receive.

I suggest that you make every attempt to sleep with the guy's daughter... or better, nail his daughter AND his wife. Make sure to record this and get it uploaded to Kazaa or Limewire for all the other pilots to see. If the dude's wife is hideous, just make sure that the next time you fly him anywhere that the food is cold and the beer and soda is warm. When he questions you, tell him that the line guys back at the FBO were responsible for loading ice and food on board, oh, and dumping the lav (sorry about the smell). Make sure that you leave a huge stinky burrito dump in the bowl overnight before you leave.

...back to reality. This guy must be a real tool to give the line guys (who probably pork his daughter, anyways) a C note and stiff the pilots. Have another Jager tonight and forget about him.

 

[FN FAL]

This is embarrassing, asking for tips. If you are a professional you should be paid as a professional!

I heard that, holmes. Would anybody consider tipping a doctor?

I tipped a doctor once. I told him if kept his fist up there any longer, there was going to be a shotgun wedding.

 

[captdaddy]

perception

The problem in our industry is that of perception. We are professionals, and the public has the right perception of us. We generally don't tip professionals.

The problem lies in that we love what we do so much that we will do it for so little pay. It is unfortunate, but true. And if one has the dignity or self-respect to not work for such peanuts, then somebody else will. The competition for pilot jobs right now is intense. This will change eventually to the way it was in the early 2000s.

I used to be an airline captain making around $180k per year. Now I fly Learjets into places I never dreamed of for 1/3 that pay. This was not my choice, but if I don't take this job, somebody else will.

I recently had a passenger find out that my copilot was only making about $1,500 per month. He became appalled. I think educating the public on how pilots are taken advantage of would yield more results than trying convince them to tip us!

Still looking...

 

[Timebuilder]

This will change eventually to the way it was in the early 2000s.

I fear that may not happen.

I used to be an airline captain making around $180k per year. Now I fly Learjets into places I never dreamed of for 1/3 that pay.

Most, that's maybe 90%, of the Lear captains I know would like to make that kind of money. They are at least 10 grand below that, some of them 15 or 20 below that.

I think educating the public on how pilots are taken advantage of would yield more results than trying convince them to tip us!

So, how would that education happen?

And if we did manage to educate them, who would believe it?

 

[FL000]

Maybe your whiny attitude is palpable to the passenger, so he chooses not to tip you for that reason. I wouldn't tip you either.

 

[rattler]

Flight Attendents do not except tips, why should we?