Tipping the flight crew

[DAS at 10/250]

Hmmmm, 2000 hours.......let's see how you feel in a few years and a few thousand more hours.

I don't think my total time has anything to do with what a pilot should be paid.

I am for making as much money as possible. But a guy or gal has to look at what they are qualified to fly and how much experience they have.

Do guys leaving the CFI ranks who are qualified in Cessnas and Pipers think they deserve 40K plus the first year? Hell, try getting insurance on a King Air for a guy with 1500TT/200ME and no time in type. Now how much should this same guy make the first year with EJ,ASA,AE,etc. flying a jet with NO experience and NO time.

Again, I am for a pilot making a descent wage. But entry level jobs for entry level pilots deserve entry level pay. And lets try not to embarass ourselves by placing a tip jar on the glareshield.

Professionalism is a measure of attitude, appearance, and ability. It is not a measure of pay.

 

[smellthejeta]

Again, I am for a pilot making a descent wage. But entry level jobs for entry level pilots deserve entry level pay. And lets try not to embarass ourselves by placing a tip jar on the glareshield.

Professionalism is a measure of attitude, appearance, and ability. It is not a measure of pay.

Let me get this straight... You're advocating that a guy who has gone to college and received a four year degree (total cost a MINIMUM of $40,000) and paid for all of his ratings up through CFI (approximate cost of $30,000) all while paying his way through school and gaining knowledge of aircraft, making $9/hr pumping fuel, deserves a job paying him $20,000?

I lucked into a decent fuel pumping job... My company is paying 80% of my masters degree. I get 23 days of paid leave each year, and my paychecks are more than every entry level flight position will pay (he!!, they're better than most 4 or 5 year FO's get paid). I will take a massive paycut to be a pilot. Granted, being a fuel pumper is a dead end job, but it's ridiculous when you can't even "afford" to be a pilot until you've been one for seven years.

He!!, there's a segment of aviation that is very short staffed and you have the opportunity to make over $100,000 by your 30th birthday. The retirement plan is great. Total cost of education: $2000. I hate to tell you this, but given the choice, screw being a pilot.

 

[FL000]

Let me get this straight... You're advocating that a guy who has gone to college and received a four year degree (total cost a MINIMUM of $40,000) and paid for all of his ratings up through CFI (approximate cost of $30,000) all while paying his way through school and gaining knowledge of aircraft, making $9/hr pumping fuel, deserves a job paying him $20,000?

I'll take this one...

Yes, not only because those are the market values of that training and that job, but also because he chose to pay for the former and accept the latter, knowing full well beforehand the financial aspects.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Enough of us out there have already cheapened this industry beyong belief. Now you want to be tipped????????

 

[dollacrackho]

you people are really missing the boat. you can take your i'm a professional and i'm above taking tips attitude right to the food stamp line. salaries are going south and show no signs of coming back. we need new incentives and while you shouldn't whore yourself out looking for tips, passengers should feel free to leave a few bucks on their seat after the flight. i sure as hell am not gonna thumb my nose at potentially an extra couple hundred bucks a week. so you big professionals can refuse to take your tip and i'll be more than happy to take your share. and in closing these tips will not only be helping me but will be feeding the families of numerous strippers across our fine nation. amen

 

[DAS at 10/250]

Let me get this straight... You're advocating that a guy who has gone to college and received a four year degree (total cost a MINIMUM of $40,000) and paid for all of his ratings up through CFI (approximate cost of $30,000) all while paying his way through school and gaining knowledge of aircraft, making $9/hr pumping fuel, deserves a job paying him $20,000?

Basically, yes. Unless you are willing to buy a type and work for free or pay for the experience of PIC turbine time then you will have to serve some apprentice time as a low pay pilot. Pharamacists paid more for their education and they must work one year with NO PAY under the guidance of an experienced RX. Or ask your local doctor how much they got paid during residency.

Does it suck. Yes. But what do you really think we are qualified to fly with 250TT, 50 HRS in a Dutchess, and a wet ink CFI certificate? That makes you qualified to instruct. And then you get 1500TT/200M and you might be qualified to fly a 'Joe/400series/etc or take an entry level job as a RJ FO. Then with 25-3000TT and 2000ME you get to upgrade to King Air or RJ CPT. And on and on and on.

Yes, not only because those are the market values of that training and that job, but also because he chose to pay for the former and accept the latter, knowing full well beforehand the financial aspects.

Well said.

Just because we are pilots does not mean that we are entitled to something spectactular. We must pay our dues and we must have experience. Also remember that revenue must be greater than expenses or else your company will go the way of Braniff. Which means you can't pay a 50 seat RJ crew an excessive amount of money. Costs Have to be inline with income.

Quote:
Hmmmm, 2000 hours.......let's see how you feel in a few years and a few thousand more hours.

Yes, I am a 2000TT/600ME pilot. And I am flying what I am qualified to fly. And being paid what I deserve. Would you hire me for 125K/year to fly your B757? Probably not. Will I ever fly one? Maybe. I'll get the opportunity to move from a PA31, to a BE9L, to maybe a BE20, and then a Citation, and just keep moving up in equipment, pay, and quality of life.

But please don't whine about pay or tips as a new 121/135/or even 91 part Jet FO. You are new and inexperienced and you need time to develop experience. An inexperienced guy can be replaced quick and cheap with another inexperienced guy, that is why you are worth more with the more experience and time you have.

 

[kilroy]

I get tips on about every third flight usually 50 to 100 bucks . The biggest tip I got was about 3 months ago 1000 bucks to split with my co-pilot. Thats almost enough for beer money

 

[capt. megadeth]

I don't think my total time has anything to do with what a pilot should be paid.

I am for making as much money as possible. But a guy or gal has to look at what they are qualified to fly and how much experience they have.

Do guys leaving the CFI ranks who are qualified in Cessnas and Pipers think they deserve 40K plus the first year? Hell, try getting insurance on a King Air for a guy with 1500TT/200ME and no time in type. Now how much should this same guy make the first year with EJ,ASA,AE,etc. flying a jet with NO experience and NO time.

Again, I am for a pilot making a descent wage. But entry level jobs for entry level pilots deserve entry level pay. And lets try not to embarass ourselves by placing a tip jar on the glareshield.

Professionalism is a measure of attitude, appearance, and ability. It is not a measure of pay.

I would feel no embarassment whatsoever getting a tip. I would not be "insulted" either like someone said. What insults me is everything we all have to go through to get to where we are, having our certificates on the line every day we fly, etc. and getting paid diddly. What insults me is that some of my fellow pilots don't have a serious problem with this. I am past "regional FO" in my career and even if I wasn't, I still don't think ANY pilot should make $20,000 a year....it is below the poverty level people!!!!!!!

DAS,
One of my friends is a pharmacist and she did not have to work for free at all. She made over $110,000 last year which is around her 3rd year being a pharmacist and she is not even 30 years old yet.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

First off, if anyone wants us to be "PROFESSIONAL" they better pay up. Where is the motivation to be professional when your "profession" is going down the tubes. I say we all wear signs that say how much we actually make per passenger per flight visible to all pax.

Professionalism has nothing to do with what you're paid man. You should be motivated to be professional regardless of what your salary is. Maybe you should start flying cargo; it seems like you're preoccupied with what the passengers think.

What about the Flight Attendants who actually have to deal with the toads in the back.

Amen. If I had to pick any one crewmember who deserves a tip at all, it would be the flight attendants who put up with all the B.S. from demanding passengers. As pilots, we fly with the cockpit door closed to the rest of the aircraft, so unless something happens where our attention is needed, we have little to do with the passengers as compared to the F/A's.

I would feel no embarassment whatsoever getting a tip. I would not be "insulted" either like someone said. What insults me is everything we all have to go through to get to where we are, having our certificates on the line every day we fly, etc. and getting paid diddly. What insults me is that some of my fellow pilots don't have a serious problem with this. I am past "regional FO" in my career and even if I wasn't, I still don't think ANY pilot should make $20,000 a year....it is below the poverty level people!!!!!!!

Don't rely on the passengers to give you tips to suppliment your income to a level you feel is sufficient. You're airline is responsible for paying you, not the passengers. If a pilot is unhappy about making 20K/yr as a regional FO, then they shouldn't have taken the job to begin with, because they knew going in that it dosent pay diddly.
In my book, the word TIPS is an acronym that means "To Insure Prompt Service". You tip somebody like a waiter/waitress or a valet, where their income is structured on supplimental money received directly from the customer. Pilots are not to be tipped, as we already receive a full salary that does not require supplimental compensation directly from the passengers' pocketbook. In my experience, the level of service that one might recieve from a waitress is directly linked to how much they're tipped. In other words, good tippers usually get the best service. Aviation is different, as we pilots provide pretty much the same level of service weather or not we're being tipped or not (at least I do). If I know Im not going to receive a tip, I don't purposely fly into thunderstorms to make the passengers uncomfortable, or slow down to M.72 to delay the arrival time, or intentially slam it on the runway.

 

[sleepy]

It seems like every where I shop now they have a tip jar out by the cash register. It usually has a sign that says "Instead of deacent wages" or somthing similar. So why don't you put your jar out by the cabin door with a similar sign and see what happens?

You could also make a PA to the effect that you do a better job landing the aircraft and avoiding bad weather when the tips are good.

 

[svcta]

Y-A-W-N

Next......

 

[Duke Lefty]

Sign On Cockpit Door Should Read:

PILOTS CARRY LESS THAN $20 CASH​

 

[kilroy]

Speaking of tips whats up with the tip jars at the drive thrus for Dunkin Donuts?? I don,t see tip jars at Mcdonalds,Burger King or Wendy's. Now does it require more skills and knowledge to put a donut (that is made somewhere else) in a bag and hand it thru a window then it is to cook my 2 ALL BEEF PATTIES SPECIAL SAUCE LETTUCE PICKLES ONIONS CHEESE ON A SESAME SEAD BUN AND LARGE FRIES WITH A DIET SPRITE( Watching my weight). At what point are your skills, knowledge, customer service, and good looks worth getting a tip.

 

[capt. megadeth]

"Maybe you should start flying cargo"

Um, Sol, that's exactly my goal my friend.
Can you hook me up with an interview at UPS or FedEx? I've been trying for years now.

 

[HMR]

You guys are rookies. I paid for all of my training from Private through MEI working as a doorman at a fancy movie-star-laden hotel. When I flew charter out of SoCal I would fly the same people I took care of for years at the hotel. They would look at me and say "waaait a minute...I know you..." It was great. I was a tip magnet. It's all about customer service and I ain't too proud to accept a little love.

PS-On the topic of tipping: What's up with pilots being the worst tippers? It's embarrasing. Ask any waiter, valet, bartender. We rank right up there with Lawyers, Doctors and Europeans. I remember when the hotshot senior airline pilots used to stay at the hotel. They were the WORST! Talk about deep pockets and short arms... I've been on a one-man mission to clean up our image.