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time building

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epic!

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2006
Posts
702
Any ideas on how to build some time? The plan was to go for a cfi but thats not financially feasible at the moment and all my contract flights have pretty much dried up. The only other things I can think of are banner tow, jump pilot, traffic watch jobs. etc am I missing any low time "entry level" jobs? thanks
 
dont read too much into that...it's just avbug being avbug......irritating. Totally useless post that didnt even come close to answering that guys question.

Back to the origianl thread after avbug basiclly wrecked it. All of those methods are acceptable. Total time is total time, dont matter what it is. I would suggest going to a good school and getting a CFI though. You may be able to use it.

Good luck.
 
Well he will build experience through building time.

No, he will not, because experience is not a byproduct of time. Flight hours mean nothing, while experience means everything.

If hours are all the poster wants, then falsify them. Write them in the logbook and be done with that, for that's all they're worth.

Don't build hours. Build experience.

Two pilots fly identical airplanes. One drones about for an hour and logs an hour of time. The other flies approaches, performs stalls and slow flight, and practices partial panel work. He also logs an hour of flight time. One has an hour of flight time, the other an hour of experience.

Don't build hours. Build experience.

I've met far too many 10,000 hour pilots who aren't worth their weight in salt...in fact it's quite probably accurate to say that 90% of the pilots out there aren't worth their weight. Lots of time builders, even in professional positions.

Hours are no measurement of a pilot's ability, attention to detail, judgement, or skill. How the pilot matures and develops professionally in response to his or her own experiences, however, are very telling.

Not long ago I was given the task of preparing several pilots for a utility assignment. Each was an experienced airline captain, and one owned several private aircraft (including a Mig, which he used to perform at airshows). The tasks which we performed were simple, but required some element of "multi-tasking." One pilot became airsick, and couldn't do simple turns about a point at low level in mountain turbulence. Another got lost. During an actual inflight emergency involving an explosive depressurization, one became catatonic and unresponsive. None of them had any skill in the use of the rudder. They were afraid of terrain. They were far too conservative for the job. While good individuals, and higher time pilots, their piloting time was not a good indicator of their appropriateness for the job. Lots of hours, not so much experience.

Another pilot was recommended for the job. I was told he was preparing to take a checkride with the FAA, and asked to give him an hour and a half of instruction and prep for that checkride. I was told he was ready, and displayed excellent situational awarenes and habits, and that his judgement was good. I was misinformed. He was not ready, and had very poor habits, dangerous habits, in fact. Moreover, his skill and ability were inferior to most, and I recommended strongly that he be terminated immediately.

In that pilot's case, he had the hours, with prior experience cited as a simulator instructor for a well known training agency, as well as airline experience, and even beginnings at an airline academy. After pressing him during our evening together, the company did some digging and learned his background was falsified, with the airline never having heard of him, and his job history a lie.

I know most of what I need to know about a pilot by talking to them, before we ever get to the airplane or the simulator. In his case, multiple red flags were raised during the pre-brief, enough that I stopped and discussed a long list of those concerns with the management for that operation. The flight produced 20 or so major concerns, from gross misunderstanding of aircraft systems to poor procedures which ranged from a non-existent traffic scan to lack of rudder use to rote use of the checklist...completely missing useful items such as landing gear, etc.

This individual had the hours to get the job, but not the experience. No doubt he'd flown the actual number of hours necessary to qualify for the job, as these were at least recorded in his logbook. How many were falsified, who knows...but the hours did nothing to hide his ineptness; his experience was the determining factor, and it sorely lacked.

Build experience. Not hours. Hours can certainly come with experience, though one's experience may be far in excess of the hours...but it doesn't work the other way around.
 
No, he will not, because experience is not a byproduct of time. Flight hours mean nothing, while experience means everything.

If hours are all the poster wants, then falsify them. Write them in the logbook and be done with that, for that's all they're worth.

Don't build hours. Build experience.

Two pilots fly identical airplanes. One drones about for an hour and logs an hour of time. The other flies approaches, performs stalls and slow flight, and practices partial panel work. He also logs an hour of flight time. One has an hour of flight time, the other an hour of experience.

Don't build hours. Build experience.

I've met far too many 10,000 hour pilots who aren't worth their weight in salt...in fact it's quite probably accurate to say that 90% of the pilots out there aren't worth their weight. Lots of time builders, even in professional positions.

Hours are no measurement of a pilot's ability, attention to detail, judgement, or skill. How the pilot matures and develops professionally in response to his or her own experiences, however, are very telling.

Not long ago I was given the task of preparing several pilots for a utility assignment. Each was an experienced airline captain, and one owned several private aircraft (including a Mig, which he used to perform at airshows). The tasks which we performed were simple, but required some element of "multi-tasking." One pilot became airsick, and couldn't do simple turns about a point at low level in mountain turbulence. Another got lost. During an actual inflight emergency involving an explosive depressurization, one became catatonic and unresponsive. None of them had any skill in the use of the rudder. They were afraid of terrain. They were far too conservative for the job. While good individuals, and higher time pilots, their piloting time was not a good indicator of their appropriateness for the job. Lots of hours, not so much experience.

Another pilot was recommended for the job. I was told he was preparing to take a checkride with the FAA, and asked to give him an hour and a half of instruction and prep for that checkride. I was told he was ready, and displayed excellent situational awarenes and habits, and that his judgement was good. I was misinformed. He was not ready, and had very poor habits, dangerous habits, in fact. Moreover, his skill and ability were inferior to most, and I recommended strongly that he be terminated immediately.

In that pilot's case, he had the hours, with prior experience cited as a simulator instructor for a well known training agency, as well as airline experience, and even beginnings at an airline academy. After pressing him during our evening together, the company did some digging and learned his background was falsified, with the airline never having heard of him, and his job history a lie.

I know most of what I need to know about a pilot by talking to them, before we ever get to the airplane or the simulator. In his case, multiple red flags were raised during the pre-brief, enough that I stopped and discussed a long list of those concerns with the management for that operation. The flight produced 20 or so major concerns, from gross misunderstanding of aircraft systems to poor procedures which ranged from a non-existent traffic scan to lack of rudder use to rote use of the checklist...completely missing useful items such as landing gear, etc.

This individual had the hours to get the job, but not the experience. No doubt he'd flown the actual number of hours necessary to qualify for the job, as these were at least recorded in his logbook. How many were falsified, who knows...but the hours did nothing to hide his ineptness; his experience was the determining factor, and it sorely lacked.

Build experience. Not hours. Hours can certainly come with experience, though one's experience may be far in excess of the hours...but it doesn't work the other way around.

you really gotta get off the keyborad and go outside or something.....
 
You both bring up good points. Yes I need hours in order to build experience...however the 40 hours or so I have in King Air have produced an invaluable amount of knowledge that I would not have experience, even if I were to fly 100 hours in 172. I agree time does not necessarily measure a pilots ability to perform, but how am I supposed to gain experience on a limited budget and lack of hours?
 
You both bring up good points. Yes I need hours in order to build experience...however the 40 hours or so I have in King Air have produced an invaluable amount of knowledge that I would not have experience, even if I were to fly 100 hours in 172. I agree time does not necessarily measure a pilots ability to perform, but how am I supposed to gain experience on a limited budget and lack of hours?

Do my suggestion. You get experience one hour at a time. So that means you do whatever you can to keep flying. Even if it's flying a banner. Hang out at your local airportm you'll never know when someone needs a safety pilot. Dont worry about the experience, it will come, you have all kinds of things happen that you will remember as "expereince"
 
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Lets see:

On the first night of flight training for a "commuter airline" (regionals were called commuters then) a frantic person I had never met stormed up to me in the hangar (as I was walking out to the aircraft for my first night of company flight training - hence no time to chat) and said "How do you shoot an ADF approach?" I said who are you. He said he was a new hire and he needed to fly NDB tonight and and he didn't know how. I asked if he had an instrument rating. He said he had an ATP and was captain for a 135 outfit and all he ever did was radar vectors. I had to get out to my aircraft so I kept walking. He yelled "HOW DO YOU SHOOT AN ADF APPROACH?" Under my breath as I walked to my aircraft I said - Very well, thankyou. We did shoot many ADF appraoches for this company and needed to know how. I never saw him again.

I was conducting a 135 check for a guy with a wet (two weeks old type rating) He learned in the aircraft. He never learned to start the engines. The Instructor would not let the student start the engines. He never did start the engines. It was a short checkride.

Current F16 pilot getting a jet type rating to get a job (he told me that). With everything working, less than 10 knots of wind, his clearance was "fly to XYZ VOR and hold as published (for an approach). I gave him an easy vector and he spun the OBS like he was grinding coffee. We flew by the VOR, he never knew where it was. I gave him another vector toward the VOR. He again spun the OBS looking for something I never figured out what. I sat there wondering what he was doing as he flew just outside of 10 miles from the VOR. I gave him another vector to the VOR. Again spinning the OBS. We never got there. He got a 609 ride out of that.

Was flight training a commuter captain upgrade at 3am (of course) during a VOR approach he desended down to MDA and he continued on for 15 minutes. This was at least 12 minutes past miss app time. I said "how we doing?" he said "great". I wait another 5 minutes and ask "how we doing?" He says "great". We are now 20 minutes over the ocean heading for a 12 hour trip before dry land with 2 hours of fuel. I said look out side for the airport. He looks at all the water and then gives me the deer in the headlight look. I say well captain what are you gonna do? He looks out side and again the deer in the headlight as we continue at 800' MSL out to sea. He did not upgrade.

All three pilots with enough flight time. What they needed was knowledge, experience, and ability.

I agree, get experience (knowledge/ability) over flight time.
 
all good examples....like I said you'll get your experience one hour at a time. You can't "buy" experience.

good luck
 
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