Thunderstorms, anyone fly thru them?

[Seadogrun]

Gotta ask: Why in the world would your boss want to do that? I think it's time to find another job.

 

[Varig]

I have flown through them twice because the idiot seating in the left didn't know how to use the weather radar. Once in it, what did he do?? Started turning right away. I didn't know if I punched him or took control of the plane. Lots of ice, severe turbulence etc. Not a pretty picture.

 

[avbug]

You didn't know that you punched the captain, or if you did it? You didn't know if you took control of the airplane? You simply have no recollection, or you were or are unaware of your actions? Generally taking control of the airplane, particularly taking it away from the PIC, is somewhat memorable...and most would have a very clear mental record of having belted someone. Just done it so many times that you can't straighten them all out, or was it so traumatic that you've blocked it from your memory?

Or are you simply spinning a yarn, there?

 

[Oh-ryan]

I have flown through them twice because the idiot seating in the left didn't know how to use the weather radar. Once in it, what did he do?? Started turning right away. I didn't know if I punched him or took control of the plane. Lots of ice, severe turbulence etc. Not a pretty picture.

So, let's see. The guy in the left seat don't know squat about the Wx radar and the guy in the right seat either don't know squat about the Wx radar or don't know squat about CRM.

Not a pretty picture.

 

[Varig]

Sorry guys, I was pretty tired when I wrote that post. What I meant to say was I felt like punching him for being so stupid and turning inside a thunderstorm. I also felt like taking controls of the airplane.
Unfortunately where I fly there is no CRM. It's a "captain is God mentality". I told him not to turn but he didn't listen and kept turning. During the turn we were beat up pretty good from the turbulence. Also there was alot of ice built up. After we were through it, he was pale. You should've seen the look on his face.
Anyways the mentality here is very unsafe. No wonder we are averaging one fatal accident a year.

 

[avbug]

The mentality here is very unsafe, is it?

Whereas nearly every poster has advocated thunderstorm avoidance, what in that mentality do you find detrimental to safety?

If you feel inclined to start punching anyone presently, perhaps you should step away from your keyboard and get some fresh air.

You may not be aware that sometimes a turn in the storm may be the best option. In fact, it may save your life.

 

[Varig]

The mentality where I fly, not the mentality on the board. I agree with what has been said here and that's why I wanted to share what happens down here.

 

[avbug]

Gotcha.

On the subject of turning out of a storm, since it's on the table...

If one knows what the storm profile was upon entering, very often one may have a good idea of the best escape path. The counsel is often to continue straight through to minimize time in the cell. However, the lesser gradients are found on the outer sides of the cell, and if one hasn't penetrated the heaviest returns with the greatest up or downshears, then one may well be advised to make a turn in the shortest direction to exit the storm.

The decision to do this really has to be made in light of the specific circumstances, however. If, for example, you saw a steep gradient (thin band of green, thin band of yellow, thick band of red or magenta), then you know it gets bad quickly. Imagine you saw that with no returns on the backside...what you are probably seeing is attenuation, or a radar shadow...you may be going from bad to worse to a shadow on the other side...which may be even worse. A turn may be in the cards.

If you saw the edge of a cell and have penetrated that then a slight change in course to exit the cell faster may be your best bet.

Depending on the radar you have available, you may be able at a minimum to navigate through the level 1-2 stuff and avoid returns with higher db.

Definitely don't resign yourself to simply holding course if you have other options. If control has become a problem and you're down to the basic survival skill of keeping the airplane upright (very possible inside a thunderstorm of any great significance), navigating may be a far second priority to just keeping control and getting through it. At a time like that, follow standard thunderstorm guidance, slow down, allow altitude and airspeed to vary, and just keep it under control until you either come unglued, or get to better conditions.

 

[learflyer]

My favorite are the guys who turn the radar on AFTER they're in the middle of the storm. Too late!
A wise man once told me "if you die because of wx, your funeral is on a sunny day."

 

[avbug]

A wise man once told me "if you die because of wx, your funeral is on a sunny day."

An excellent quote, though I suspect mine, if there is one, will be on a rainy day and the pipe will get struck with lightening. That's my prediction, anyway. At least the wake will be dry.

A few months ago we departed HKG during some weather that was gusty and had bouts of heavy rain. I tilted the radar prior to departure and looked for cell signatures, but didn't see anythin really with any definition, no obvious attenuation, no contours of significance...even though we had heard thunder on and off while prepping for the flight. Flights were arriving and departing.

We began a series of left turns per ATC vectoring, and about 4 minutes after departure as we made a turn 180 from the runway heading, the radar as showing light ahead, then just complete attenuation. Nada. We got into some significant turbulence, and I found that even maintaining a positive climb was difficult. ATC was able to provide some help, but not much due to the widespread nature of the weather. Our biggest clue to the intensity of the weather was the decibel level of the rain over the flight deck...and it was loud at times.

The radar was no help at all. We went to secondary radar, tried ranging in and out, tried tilting, different settings, ran a test pattern and back again, turned it off and then back on to reset...it was flat-out attenuating, seemingly at the radome, and this without ice, and no previous indications of significant lobes or other radome-attenuation issues.

 

[airlineworthy]

Just wondering. I know they contain every danger known to man and airplane but my boss wants me to fly thru or under them and I don't feel it's safe. Thoughts?

Do it, and your underwear will be a different color on the other side!

Find a new boss.

 

[Boris Badenov]

No. No one in recorded history has ever flown through, under, or around a thunderstorm.

 

[JAFI]

Bryan, I worked for a few bosses like yours. He/she is an idiot - find another job. In the mean time you could try some tried and true replies to similar boss stupid ideas:

1. Could you go first and explain how it is done. I'll wait here and watch.

2. Where is the reference for (what ever stupid act) in the company manual? Are you asking me to not follow approved procedure?

3. (My favorite that worked several times) I'm just not sure about that, I’m going to call (Inspector's first name) at the FSDO and get his take on this.

Ignorance can be cured with education; stupidity can only be cured with death.

 

[learflyer]

Bryan, you out there? Making me nervous not answering these posts. You didn't fly through any $hit did ya?

 

[McNugget]

Just wondering. I know they contain every danger known to man and airplane but my boss wants me to fly thru or under them and I don't feel it's safe. Thoughts?

don't do it. end of story PERIOD

ps are you still alive

 

[PURPLEHAZE21]

I just flew through one on the way here...no big deal....I dont know what the big fuss is over....what's my airplane doing in a parking lot....why am I not in it....where am I...........................

 

[thunderworm]

i think we should differenciate between categories of storms. a 1,2, maybe 3, can be flown through. 4, 5 stay away. if you have flown enough imc you probably have gone through at least something. of course they are scary but if you follow proper procedures just like ice you can still make it where you are going. with most peoples sentiments on this board one would think that most are too scared to even get in a plane let alone fly it. we all should error on the side of safety but how much is too much.

 

[avbug]

i think we should differenciate between categories of storms. a 1,2, maybe 3, can be flown through. 4, 5 stay away. if you have flown enough imc you probably have gone through at least something. of course they are scary but if you follow proper procedures just like ice you can still make it where you are going.

Simply because one "can make it," does not mean one should.

Common sense if often the better part of valor. Your statement lacks this.

Do you understand why one should not fly through a thunderstorm?

 

[pilotyip]

Yes but back in the 60's during "good ole days", no wx radar, 1200 NM from the nearest reporting station, no satellite imagery, you sometimes just kinda ran into them.

 

[learflyer]

That was before all of the famous crashes, ( or at least reported) DFW...windshear, Little Rock.....AA, I know there's more!