Thoughts and prayers to Madrid victims

[FL000]

Numerical ties between 9-11, Madrid

It's kind of late to post the story. I'm sure everyone knows by now what happened. Relatively speaking, this is their 9-11. I'm surprised I'm the first to post anything about it. Spain has stood by us from 9-11 to the present. God bless the victims and their families.

The Associated Press
Published on: 03/12/04

In comparing the Madrid bombings to the 9-11 terrorist attacks in the United States, there are some interesting numerical ties.

There were 911 days in-between the terror attacks in Madrid and Sept. 11, 2001 — or 9-11 as it has become known — when al-Qaida-backed terrorists slammed planes into the Pentagon, a field in Pennsylvania and the World Trade Center towers in New York, destroying them.

The Madrid bombings — which happened on 3-11 — also came 2-1/2 years to the day after the 9-11 attacks.

 

[sky37d]

What happened??

 

[jetexas]

Looks like its was Al Quaeda that blew up about 10 bombs in trains and trains stations over in spain. Killed about 200 folks, wounded over 1200.

 

[FL000]

bump for new, interesting info edited into first post.

 

[Timebuilder]

Yes, this is Spain's 9-11, in a way.

Now I recall a bunch of people who said that 9-11 was OUR fault, and that this was the terrorists only way to express their frustration with US policy, and that WE were the targets.

I guess this shoots that all to he-ll.

The terrorists are evil cowards, period. Will will help them to discover their false doctrine of fear and evil sooner, as opposed to later.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Now I recall a bunch of people who said that 9-11 was OUR fault, and that this was the terrorists only way to express their frustration with US policy, and that WE were the targets.

I guess this shoots that all to he-ll.

Not necessarily. The Arabic language tapes found indicate that Spain was targeted because they helped us in Iraq. If anything, it adds to the "blame America" argument.

 

[Timebuilder]

I would counter with this idea: the Arab terrorists see this opinion among American liberals as something they can exploit, hoping to give support to that movement that would take the pressure off them, and help them to attain their goals by their terrorist acts.

In other words, they are taking a cue from us, not providing an evidence of the liberal opinion.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I would counter with this idea: the Arab terrorists see this opinion among American liberals

Please do not make the mistake of associating this nonsensical view of American responsibility for terrorism with liberalism. Most liberals are far too conservative for my tastes (Richard Nixon was more liberal than most Democrats today) and it's not a concept I give an iota of credence to. Or should I assume that all conservatives believe that America brought 911 on itself as God's punishment?

Terrorism carries it's own self-justification.

 

[bart]

As long as terrorists have functioning bases of operation, this will continue to happen. Just a new call to go after terrorists with increased vigor.

 

[mar]

Oh sure, yeah right...

Yeah, we really showed them when we knocked out that evil Syracuse base. Oh and then that nasty Hamburg base got shut down real quick like.

Let's see...

I think there's a Milan base...

...and a Manila base...

...where else?

Oh I guess they can make a "Base" in any old Motel 6 in any two-bit single horse town they like.

Get a frickin' grip will ya?

They don't play by your rules.

The War on Terror is not working.
Neither did the War on Drugs.

You guys are p!ssing in the wind.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Did you see the latest threat they found in that van in Madrid? Some tape that says they're 90% prepared for the next attack on the US. something called "black wind of death"?

Where are Islam's men of piece? Where's their Jessie Jackson? Their Jimmy Carter? Why can't the Saudis control their own people?

If their fellow brothers of Islam can't control these morons then maybe we lock them up here -- all of them. And as far as the cradle of civilization? Let's use some of our "nuclear deterents" to turn the middle east into a sheet of glass.

Just my opinion. I'm sure i'll get flamed, but if anyone has a better idea of how to gently "ecourage" these folks to leave us alone, i'm open to suggestions.

 

[Timebuilder]

Or should I assume that all conservatives believe that America brought 911 on itself as God's punishment?

Now there's a wacky concept.

Who has advanced that idea? I don't know of anyone, so please share this insight. I think it is incorrect, but I'd like to know if there really is someone out there advancing this idea outside of frivolous thought.

The War on Terror is not working.

Based on what information?

Do you think that 9-11 was the only attack they intended to carry out? It is far more likely that they intended to carry out more attacks, but the many leaders and planners that have been caught or killed have made their plans far more difficult to complete.

Ascribing a quantifiable measure of success to the war on terror is like trying to prove a negative, so we have to rely on what is a reasonable set of assumptions. While they don't "play by our rules," they are not in any way gifted or inspired as "evil geniuses," and therefore can be dealt with as any other criminal enterprise. Outside the boundaries of the US, where criminality is almost a protected right, it is far easier to root out and destroy terrorist cells. Wisely, we have made it more difficult for the "Motel 6" variety of terrorist to function, too.

Neither did the War on Drugs.

The reason that the war on drugs is a failure is due in large measure to OUR failure to restrain the culture of drugs. Allowing children to idolize gangster rappers, failing to provide real role models in the various communities, and forcing a decline in public morality in the name of "free speech," which was intended to be political speech not cultural erosion, is the culprit in modern drug culture.

How can you stop drug use when anarchy, and not freedom, is the coin of the realm? How can you have an organized and free society without some basis of agreement about morality, as the founders observed? The modern drug culture has become an "entitlement of self destruction."

And we as a nation are in danger of being sucked right down that drain.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Now there's a wacky concept.

Who has advanced that idea?

Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson within 3 days of 911. Don't you remember?

Glad you agree that it's wacky.

 

[Timebuilder]

Those two guys aren't of much interest to me, and they aren't of interest to most Christians, either. Their ministries don't represent Biblical thought 100% of the time. The rest is what they think . As humans, they are fallible just like everyone else. Me included.

Have you archived any web pages with those statements? I'd be interested in seeing them. I believe you, I just think it would be worth further research to see how that conclusion would be reached.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Those two guys aren't of much interest to me, and they aren't of interest to most Christians, either. Their ministries don't represent Biblical thought 100% of the time.

Exactly the point, my friend.

Have you archived any web pages with those statements? I'd be interested in seeing them. I believe you, I just think it would be worth further research to see how that conclusion would be reached.

The reports about the statement are pretty easy to find. For example

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A28620-2001Sep14

Try this in Google:

transcript God continues lift curtain allow enemies America give us probably what we deserve

 

[Timebuilder]

Here is what I found as the first entry in that Google search:

God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve.

and what we were talking about here was:

Or should I assume that all conservatives believe that America brought 911 on itself as God's punishment?

which is a different matter.

According to what I see, Falwell, in an interview with Robinson on his TV show, is expressing an opinion that we, as an increasingly immoral people, "probably" deserved what we got. He is not saying that God directed what we got, or that He used the attackers to carry out His will. Only that our immorality probably was a factor. One man's opinion.

Falwell was clearly suggesting that we have gone against God's will as a country and as a culture, and it would not be beyond comprehension that God has supended some of His protection from evil for the US. That's an opinion, to be sure, but it isn't the same thing as what you cited.

It is interesting to note the title of the webpage, "America's Taliban." The mind swims at what the author means by that title.

Of note is this next section:

And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way - all of them who have tried to secularize America - I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen."

Certainly, a very good argument could be made for the accelerated moral decline by the removal of God from the daily lives of many citizens. There is a 100% truth in the idea that the groups listed have tried to secularize America. It's in their interest that this happen, in order to redefine deviancy and Godlessness as being the "norm" in America. Sort of a forced prohibition of religion, the opposite of the intention expressed in the First Amendment.

That's pretty far from the vision of the founders for our country, and the basis of its success as a free nation..

 

[jetexas]

It looks to me that organizations like AL-Quaeda are trying to ignite another "Crusade" just like the one in the middle ages. They feel desperation for the way the world has become and perhaps they inwardly feel that modern technology and the ways of the modern world are leaving them behind, or threatening their beliefs. Ie...womens rising role in world politics, what they see as decadence in the US and other Western cultures, etc etc. Islam IS, however, the fastest growing religion in the world. Yet, Islam is not, in its pure form, a dangerous religion. They have radicals that interpret the Quoran as a license to kill non-muslims, ie infidels...us!!!!

This goes a bit deeper than Spain's support of the US fight in Iraq.

During the time of the crusades, Spain was a large element of the "christian soldiers" in the 100 years war....the longest "War" in recorded history..Christians vs. Muslims. The Muslims generally prevailed in that struggle so AL Quaeda likely feels they will be able to do so again. This is gonna be a long one folks.

 

[Timebuilder]

I'm inclined to agree.

We will likely force a draw until God settles this once and for all. If we fail to fight, and be good stewards of our freedom and our way of life, we will be lost. So, we will resist. Resistance is not futile.

 

[46Driver]

Re: Oh sure, yeah right...

Oh I guess they can make a "Base" in any old Motel 6 in any two-bit single horse town they like.

Get a frickin' grip will ya?

They don't play by your rules.

The War on Terror is not working.
Neither did the War on Drugs.

You guys are p!ssing in the wind.

You have 2 choices:

1) Surrender and beg for mercy from the ones who call you an infidel.

2) Throw away the rules and HOIST THE BLACK FLAG - no quarter given, none accepted.

I (and President Bush) choose the latter. Unleash the dogs of war.

 

[mar]

Grow up

46 Driver--You're a lot smarter than that.

I've read your posts here and on Pprune.

There's another alternative: Stop sending money to Israel.

That's neither begging for mercy nor waging war.

I'm finished here. All of my feelings are archived. Do a search.