Think twice before coming to Pinnacle.

[Smarta$$]

On top of all the other obvious issues that make this a terrible job, it just got worse for new hires.

If you come to Pinnacle and live in MSP, MEM or DTW, or if you wanted to be based in any of those for commuting you want to here this.

If you come to class and don't have the class seniority to hold those, they can assign you ATL. They do it now, for example if MSP is your first choice and they don't have enough openings or you don't have the seniority, they put you in detriot or memphis. But you can bid MSP in the next vacancy.

But with ATL, you are stuck and will be locked out of holding a NW hub for 24 Months.

If the class you start in doesn't have enough openings for the base you want or you are junior in your class, you have NO control over this.

Go to Mesaba unless you like ATL.

 

[flyf15]

I actually find the reverse pretty funny. One of my Pinnacle buddies told me that the first bid for ATL went so senior that you had to be in the top 1/3 of the FO or CA seniority list to hold it.

People who have been there for years and are holding great schedules are now going to be going back on reserve. But its ok, from what I hear, reserve at Pinnacle is great.

 

[Smarta$$]

I actually find the reverse pretty funny. One of my Pinnacle buddies told me that the first bid for ATL went so senior that you had to be in the top 1/3 of the FO or CA seniority list to hold it.

People who have been there for years and are holding great schedules are now going to be going back on reserve. But its ok, from what I hear, reserve at Pinnacle is great.

Yes, reserve here is great. It is ALMOST as fun as getting run over by a car.

 

[norskman2]

How is seniority in class determined? Age? Social Security #? Draw straws?

 

[Quack]

The title should be, think 10 times before coming to pncl, and then let me kick you in the b@!!$

 

[Aviator007]

How is seniority in class determined? Age? Social Security #? Draw straws?

By Age.

 

[GearUpLightsIn]

By Age.

This has nothing to do with anything except your avatar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_URUVEa3nwY

 

[dondk]

I actually find the reverse pretty funny. One of my Pinnacle buddies told me that the first bid for ATL went so senior that you had to be in the top 1/3 of the FO or CA seniority list to hold it.

CA went senior, but that was expected with the amount of guys from the southeast US. What was surprising were a few CA's that it would be a difficult commute for, but if I had to guess it is "new stomping" grounds for the wolves.

FO's, it went into the 900's out of 1400 pilots... Those on that side of the list were more of a surprise and disappointing who they were. I was surprised they bought the whole SJS deal. Other than the few who live in ATL and that was a given they were taking the domicile.

 

[PCL_128]

What was the most junior number for the Captains that got it? Kind of curious whether I would have been able to hold it or not if I had stayed.

 

[machaf]

What was the most junior number for the Captains that got it? Kind of curious whether I would have been able to hold it or not if I had stayed.

233...

 

[PCL_128]

233...

Holy crap! I would have just barely missed it. Why so many senior guys? Just big-RJ SJS? Not too many senior guys lived in the ATL area, so I can't see why too many guys would bid for an airplane that didn't even have a known payrate yet.

 

[Smarta$$]

How is seniority in class determined? Age? Social Security #? Draw straws?

Who F-n cares. Classes are not awarded bases until well after they start. It is very often the a base doesn't have any openings or only a few. Like this last vacancy had 2 MSP FO openings. You better have been the the 2 oldest F-ers in the class or you wont get it. If you are young, you could get pushed to ATL and locked out of MSP, MEM or DTW for 24 months.

I was hoping more people would speak up to confirm that they are not giving the money they promised to trainees. Would not surprise me a bit.

 

[Smarta$$]

Double.

 

[dondk]

Who F-n cares. Classes are not awarded bases until well after they start. .

not exactly true... close though..

look at some vacancies.. they say (for FO's).. NHT class date XXX or to be filled by NHT

but I agree.. if there are only 2 slots and a new hire class falls between a vacancy, it does not matter how old you are, you still are not getting in and will have to wait 3-4 months to get the domicile if not longer.

it is all timing for a specific domicile and personally I agree.. I see PNCL backfilling ATL with New Hires.

 

[norskman2]

look at some vacancies.. they say (for FO's).. NHT class date XXX or to be filled by NHT

What's NHT? New Hire Trainee?

 

[CrownandCoke]

NHT is newhire training, yes.

This place is such a sinking ship right now. I am actually shocked that they were able to fill the vacancy with FO's. I'm even more shocked that I wouldn't have been able to hold it based on my seniority, which is sad, cause I'm a senior citizen as far as MSP FO's are concerned.

DELTA GIVE ME A CALL PLEASE!!!!!

 

[Flyer1015]

If you are young, you could get pushed to ATL and locked out of MSP, MEM or DTW for 24 months.

If someone gets hired in the next two months, what's the chance of being 'forced' into the ATL domicile (whereas you had actually wanted DTW)?

 

[ualdriver]

Is Pinnacle able to fill its new hire classes now?

 

[Inconceivable]

11 in Monday's class, six from Jet U.

Why so many senior guys?

Money. Whatever the arbitrator sets, it will be more than they are making now. A lot of those guys aren't going anywhere. Ever.

 

[ualdriver]

Is 11 what they wanted? Or were they looking for more?

 

[Inconceivable]

i have no idea. they are running new hire classes every week.

 

[dondk]

the "target" was 30 per class, up to 90 per month for training. That was to cover attrition and expected growth. They would be happy with 20 and they can't even hold that.

FO's are negative for the remainder of the year (translation, they don't have enough to cover the current and anticipated flying)

school house cannot handle 90... maybe 60.

Programs (jet U, ATP, CAE, UND) are open to other regionals, so the quantity is no longer there. Plus, when you interview 15 at ATP and only select 3 it does not help either. Programs "were" the answer to Pinnacle woes, but the numbers from all programs barely fill a class.


for the "forced" question... yes it is possible to be forced to ATL. It would all depend on how many bid for ATL. Pay rates for -900 flying probably will not be decided until mid-December, at that time they will be seeking to fill a April or May Vacancy.

 

[Inconceivable]

How long until they start calling back all the Captains who were sham terminated 2001-2004?

And I thought the DW pizza-destruction machine had left for FDX--what is he still doing there?

 

[dondk]

How long until they start calling back all the Captains who were sham terminated 2001-2004?

And I thought the DW pizza-destruction machine had left for FDX--what is he still doing there?

he is finishing up some credits... I am hearing he is more interested in those with a RED tail.

 

[Inconceivable]

clarification:

The pizza comment was directed at DW, "director of Flight Administration/Pizza Hut Consumption/Low-Density Lipoprotein storage"--not Aaron.

Two different thoughts.

 

[SEVEN]

On top of all the other obvious issues that make this a terrible job, it just got worse for new hires.

If you come to Pinnacle and live in MSP, MEM or DTW, or if you wanted to be based in any of those for commuting you want to here this.

If you come to class and don't have the class seniority to hold those, they can assign you ATL. They do it now, for example if MSP is your first choice and they don't have enough openings or you don't have the seniority, they put you in detriot or memphis. But you can bid MSP in the next vacancy.

But with ATL, you are stuck and will be locked out of holding a NW hub for 24 Months.

If the class you start in doesn't have enough openings for the base you want or you are junior in your class, you have NO control over this.

Go to Mesaba unless you like ATL.

Wow. I thought I'd never see the day when you would suggest pilots go to Mesaba instead of 9E. Times change quickly.

 

[ualdriver]

the "target" was 30 per class, up to 90 per month for training. That was to cover attrition and expected growth. They would be happy with 20 and they can't even hold that.

FO's are negative for the remainder of the year (translation, they don't have enough to cover the current and anticipated flying)

school house cannot handle 90... maybe 60.

Programs (jet U, ATP, CAE, UND) are open to other regionals, so the quantity is no longer there. Plus, when you interview 15 at ATP and only select 3 it does not help either. Programs "were" the answer to Pinnacle woes, but the numbers from all programs barely fill a class.

I ask because I read on this forum and others, and in the media how there is this huge regional pilot shortage occurring RIGHT NOW, yet I'm not reading of industry wide cancellations, passengers being stranded for lack of flights, nor are RJ's being parked in nice, neat rows at legacy hubs for lack of flight crews. So at what point is this "pilot shortage" really going to start hitting regional bottom lines? So far, it doesn't seem to be a big deal other than removing a few extra place settings at the first day indoc. dinner because a few guys no-show.

ualdriver

 

[sinkrate]

In April PCL told NWA they could no longer operate all of the flying assigned to them. NWA 'precancelled' 10 percent of PCL's flying for the next three months. That flying has not been added back in the general schedule. NWA ran into its own well publicised problems at the end of June. The next big crunch for PCL will be December. CA lines of time have been over 90 hrs/month all year. At this rate a good number will have most of December off at a time PCL can't fill CA upgrade classes. The planes aren't 'parked', they just don't fly as much. Essentially, NWA has downsized their airline because Pinnacle and Mesaba can't fill classes.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I just read that a regional had to pay $1m+ penalty to their major for failure to complete their assigned trips (it was either PCL/NWA or Mesa/UAL). I heard Mesa is cancelling something like 20% of their trips in/out of ORD.

The negative effects of pilot shortages on the major airline partners are just starting. It gets worse monthly, if not weekly.

cliff
YIP

 

[ualdriver]

I hope that all of the above is true. Anything to get those wages up BEFORE age 60 kicks in and gives them a reprieve for a few years.

One would think it would be cheaper to PAY for their entry level pilots to go through some sort of pilot puppy mill, even temporarily, vs. having to pay fines to the majors, losing revenue off the top line, and underutilizing their multi-million dollar capital assets, which just drives their average costs even higher. I think they're hoping that all of this is "just temporary."