The West walks out...

[waveflyer]

Aren't all these ideas: You keep your attrition, we'll keep ours; fences; etc- wouldn't they have been fantastic BEFORE the east agreed to BINDING arbitration and pissing off the arbitrator w/ the militant stance on DOH?

 

[iflyhigh]

Ok, just my 2 cents, but all this will not matter in about 3 to 5 years. By that time US Airways will be in BK or going out of business again.

So I would not worry about any contract, it will only be short lived.

 

[coolyokeluke]

Ok, just my 2 cents, but all this will not matter in about 3 to 5 years. By that time US Airways will be in BK or going out of business again.

So I would not worry about any contract, it will only be short lived.

Well it does seem that anything with the connotation "US Air" or something closely related to that does suffer that fate periodically. But is your reasoning based on anything other than cycles? Is there something wrong with the business? Care to elaborate?

 

[PHXFLYR]

Is there anything wrong with the business ,you ask ??!!??
Man,where do I begin ???? ..........


PHXFLYR

 

[johnnyb]

the east agreed to BINDING arbitration

I hope the average West pilot can grasp the binding part is only applicable to the seniority issue. The joint contract is voluntary and, by far, the larger of the 2 issues.

Look at Polar/ Atlas Air Cargo. That merger started in 2001 and to date there has not been a single meeting between the JNC members nor with the company.

 

[MCDU]

Another ALPA blunder trying to merge Atlas and Polar. Alpa has a failed merger policy that does not work. First Polar Atlas, now USair and AWA. Who is going to be next?

Marty

 

[johnnyb]

If you think ALPA merger policy is a problem wait till you see what's going on with Polar.

The company is trying to strip the pilots off the 121 certificate and place them in a leasing company doing business for Polar. You're no longer a Delta pilot or United but simply working for Billy Rays Pilots for hire. Or at least until Jimmy Dean comes and underbids you with his mess and ALL Billy's guys are out the door overnight.

ALPA is signing off on this and strong arming the Polar guys to cave. Until it all blows up, like the merger policy, no one is paying attention.

ALPA has got to go.

 

[coolyokeluke]

What do you guys suggest for mergers. Obviously we have two unhappy examples. But is there ever going to be a happy merger? Somebody is going to end up more senior and somebody else won't be happy about it

Nobody's posted any specifics about business problems from the above posts. Again, are we just flamebaiting or are there legitimate problems (besides $90+/bbl oil and merger problems)? Anybody at all.

 

[johnnyb]

When your side wants to negotiate, that is, doing something other than demanding concessions, maybe a deal can be reached. Our leverage lies with contractual law while your leverage lies with burning the airline down. You have more to lose than we do.

You call them concessions but I suppose if the pilots got a raise, then management types would call them concessions to the bottom line. Depends on your point of view.

In my opinion our leverage lie in the status quo. Things are just fine on the East. The West looks pretty grim to me until oil is back to $50 where Mgmnt planned the merger.

 

[coolyokeluke]

In my opinion our leverage lie in the status quo. Things are just fine on the East. The West looks pretty grim to me until oil is back to $50 where Mgmnt planned the merger.

You're operating under a bankruptcy era contract and things look just fine? Good lord, no wonder there's no progress on a new contract.

 

[Green]

Hey, at least our top narrowbody pay is HIGHER THAN YOURS!!!

Are you referring to the 757? Because our A320/737 CA tops out around 145/hr. I believe yours is 125/hr. So yes the bulk of our CA's make much more even though our pay is woefully low. But the real discrepancy is work rules and QOL. First year fo's get 21 days of vacation, 515 min day, 100% dead head pay, 12-13 days off on reserve, more golden days, etc, etc.

The whole point is that both our contracts have miserable pay. We happen to have decent work rules. Unfortunately you seem to be so hung up on the nic that you are willing to work indefinitely for regional pay. In that scenario we all lose. You signed an agreement to merge under a process and unfortunately you didn't get what you wanted.

So if we get a joint contract with CA's around 180 and FO's at 120 or so how do you lose out? Your pay and QOL would go through the roof. The USAPA hail mary will not work. You might be able to force some kind of temporary fix but it WILL be overturned. Just like the Air Willy Mississippi Valley merger. You cannot legally re-write a seniority list. It will not stand with the court system and the company would be exposing themselves to massive litigation if they arbitrarily agreed to re-organize teh list.

You guys are cutting off your nose to spite your face. Sure we are suffering stagnation out west but does that mean you are gaining anything? A bunch of upgrades with poor pay and terrible QOL on reserve? Where's the prize in that? The saddest part is that once this mess all gets settled, assuming it ever will, I bet there will be a trickle at most of west guys bidding back east.

 

[DOVPILOT]

Did the East guys try to beat up the West guys like your mechanics did a year or so ago? (were they mechanics or rampers?) Didn't Dougwiser go out to PHL and pretend he was a new ramper and some of the East rampers got on him and pushed him around a bit, until later in the day when he announced to them he was the CEO? That took some cajones.

Bye Bye--General Lee

He's lucky he wasn't found floating down the Delaware River near Tinicum!!!