The West walks out...

[Green]

Word from CLT today says the West has walked out of negotiation meetings with the East in the "Lockdown".....

AlgFlyr,

It is called Bindiiiiiiing arbitration. Do you understand the term binding? The east collectively rolling on the floor and throwing the biggest tempertantrum in the history of aviation is not going to change the nicolau award. If i walked up to you and asked you to split your 401k with me you'd probably tell me to go f off. Yet y'all out east expect us to just give away our seniority that was decided via a pre-determined process.

You can all go pound sand as far as i'm concerned. Enjoy the upgrade and just don't focus on the fact that your TOP narrowbody CA pay is LESS than SWA FO pay...

 

[TWA Dude]

Would you refuse any sort of fence agreement that helped out the East pilots in an attempt to settle this amicably rather than destroying the entire company with uSAPa?

Well, first of all if USAPA destroys the company I won't have a drop of blood on my hands. Small consolation, perhaps. But in any case as I've said from the beginning I'm open to negotiation. What I object to is negotiating under duress which is exactly the postion the East puts us in. If they were truly interested in negotiation they'd drop the nuisance suit and re-engage in the Joint Negotiations. Absent that it's clear they're more interested in extortion and it's not in our best interest to give in to that.

I've no doubt that during the ten days of talks that just took place every idea under the sun was explored. My FO LEC rep told me in person that doing nothing is the same as allowing ourselves to be fenced and I agree with him. Just the same, bad behavior should be punished and not rewarded. I don't believe USAPA is a shoe-in if/when the election takes place. Not every Eastie is an irrational/emotional whiner.

 

[Carl S.]

The East seeks relief from NIC., but offers nothing in return, in a business world that is a dead end.

 

[ALGFLYR]

AlgFlyr,

You can all go pound sand as far as i'm concerned. Enjoy the upgrade and just don't focus on the fact that your TOP narrowbody CA pay is LESS than SWA FO pay...

Hey, at least our top narrowbody pay is HIGHER THAN YOURS!!!

 

[waveflyer]

Hey, at least our top narrowbody pay is HIGHER THAN YOURS!!!

Yes, barely- AND I MEAN BARELY- most regionals top out at over a $100/hour- so you saying your $125/hour for an airplane 3 times as large is no accomplishment. It's a shame. (Don't get me started on your E-190 rates that are worse than every regional in the country- Every republic/shuttle america driver that taxi's by- think about how they are making more money than you! a major airline? AYFKM?!)

Up until this summer i would say you were the largest victims of seniority as we have created it and the gov't condoned abuse of bankruptcy. Since this summer- it's ALL YOUR FAULT. Pride to your own detriment...?? I don't get it.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Does anyone seriously think the east would be offering a "solution" to the west if the situation was reversed? USAPA is purely about the ability of the majority to use their numbers to impose tyranny on the minority, who happen to have the legal upper hand this time.

 

[whymeworry?]

Did the East guys try to beat up the West guys like your mechanics did a year or so ago? (were they mechanics or rampers?) Didn't Dougwiser go out to PHL and pretend he was a new ramper and some of the East rampers got on him and pushed him around a bit, until later in the day when he announced to them he was the CEO? That took some cajones.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Gawd... children.

I'd love to see some pilot/ ramper/ airline worker try pushing me around.

 

[johnnyb]

If they were truly interested in negotiation they'd drop the nuisance suit and re-engage in the Joint Negotiations.
My FO LEC rep told me in person that doing nothing is the same as allowing ourselves to be fenced and I agree with him.

If you were truly interested in negotiation you'd provide something that would make me want to give up that fence.

Works both ways.

 

[Turtle21]

...Not every Eastie is an irrational/emotional whiner.

The East doesn't seem to have the equivalent of a "David Shopey" with goat videos.:laugh: Thankfully the West only seems to have one.

So looks like we will all get along just fine once the cooler heads sort this all out.

 

[TWA Dude]

If you were truly interested in negotiation you'd provide something that would make me want to give up that fence.

That is some very skewed and circuitous logic. Our negotiators didn't withdraw from the JNC; yours did. Nice try.

Works both ways.

Yes, it does. When your side wants to negotiate, that is, doing something other than demanding concessions, maybe a deal can be reached. Our leverage lies with contractual law while your leverage lies with burning the airline down. You have more to lose than we do.

 

[ultrarunner]

Is there any advantage to the West having this move along quickly? I'm thinking that as bad as the East pilots have been raped, both physically, and contractually, the West folks would just sit back and let the East drag this out as long as they are willing to keep getting raped and working under the $hitty rules they have.

What am I missing here?

 

[TWA Dude]

What you're missing is a) the Transition Agreement which gives us seats on all new aircraft. Right now we're effectively fenced off the 757s and E190s acquired since the merger. b) the East has benefitted since the merger by upgrading numerous FOs while we've been almost completely stagnant. And c) we want a new contract. If only it were the case that they're screwing only themselves.

 

[ultrarunner]

Thanks TWA for that. But in the transition agreement, would you get the seats on those birds under their work rules, or does it need to be under a combined list and a single contract?

I would seem that there wouldn't be any reason to want to go to the east side at all if it has to be under their work rules, and pay scales, right?

thanks

--ultra

 

[TWA Dude]

Thanks TWA for that. But in the transition agreement, would you get the seats on those birds under their work rules, or does it need to be under a combined list and a single contract?

The TA didn't specify those things, however, an arbitrator ruled that we wouldn't get those seats until a combined contract is in effect.

I would seem that there wouldn't be any reason to want to go to the east side at all if it has to be under their work rules, and pay scales, right?

Well, that's an individual choice. There are only about 100 AWA pilots (including me) residing east of the Mississippi. Personally, if PHL weren't such a pain to commute to I'd be very interested in taking a 190 seat even under LOA 93.

 

[ultrarunner]

Yeah, commuting to PHL is about as much fun as commuting to JFK.

Heck, when I airline, I don't even go through PHL since if I have to connect, CLT gets me there WAY easier.

Hopefully you guys will sort this out quickly. But litigation pretty much precludes that happening.