The Skybus Innaugural flight yesterday....

[mvedepo]

Red, Sorry if I misjudged you or took your previous posts wrong.

 

[mlifly]

Well said vedepo.
Aren't you a little quick to add the -400 to your 'resume' or did you fly it somewhere else already?

 

[mvedepo]

finishing training now. who's this?

 

[mlifly]

#210 on the seniority list. I go to training on 7/2.
I was just busting your chops a little! Enjoy the sim.

 

[PimpJuice]

Just because you can fly a plane does not mean you should work for any company you want. We have a culture that most would not fit. The b-tching and complaining...yea we have it here....but rare. Flying an airplane is not hard...the job we do is not hard. Being a good person is not hard...fun to hang out with is not hard. Finding the person that meets all the above....well it seems to be hard. I won't even go into personal apperance. Is he the big overweight guy that can't fit into his suit. You are also selling an image with a company. Face it, you have to look the part as much as act the part....this will open up an new can of worms. I have a friend who has a brother who is 5'10" tall at a regional airline...a bottom feeder who is about 330 lbs. I told him noone will hire him unless he loses some weight and does not look like Jared did before subway. I dirgress...I forgot...my life sucks.

I agree with all your points, however.....I have witnessed plenty of SWA Captains wheeling their guts and their bags through terminals. As a whole, not the healthiest looking bunch although that applies to all airlines.

 

[ultrarunner]

Pretty interesting thread. My take is that as long as pilot groups keep voting to lower their own bar, carriers like Skybus have the ability to lower it even further. Can't really blame the Skybus pilots when all the other organized pilot groups have bent over and taken in the butt on their own pay.

 

[PimpJuice]

Pretty interesting thread. My take is that as long as pilot groups keep voting to lower their own bar, carriers like Skybus have the ability to lower it even further. Can't really blame the Skybus pilots when all the other organized pilot groups have bent over and taken in the butt on their own pay.

People seem to forget that this is simply a supply and demand market. There are way more pilots looking for jobs than their are positions to fill. It's a technical skill that is frankly not that difficult to learn if you put in your own time and money to build hours. People are still attached to the days when an airline job was a winning lottery ticket. My Dad joined TWA in 1968- the glory years. Those are gone now. Nobody is really bending over and taking it in the butt. Instead, they are merely getting paid what the economics dictate they are worth. I hate to burst anyone's bubble but as long as there are way more pilots willing to work for less, and there always will be, these salaries will continue to go down. If I was starting up an airline, why the hell would I consider any other option in my business plan. Same thing with teachers. There's a reason doctors and lawyers get paid so much (most, not all). You need to go to school for a long time and be a lot smarter than the average joe. That's not true for airline pilots. There are still places you can go and fly without a college degree. Fact is, it's a trade skill, much like fixing a car or an air conditioner. Yes, you have the responsibility of passenger's lives but the fact is, the training and technology eliminates most of that risk. My advice, get an MBA like me! Off soapbox.

 

[SaabStory]

People seem to forget that this is simply a supply and demand market. There are way more pilots looking for jobs than their are positions to fill. It's a technical skill that is frankly not that difficult to learn if you put in your own time and money to build hours. People are still attached to the days when an airline job was a winning lottery ticket. My Dad joined TWA in 1968- the glory years. Those are gone now. Nobody is really bending over and taking it in the butt. Instead, they are merely getting paid what the economics dictate they are worth. I hate to burst anyone's bubble but as long as there are way more pilots willing to work for less, and there always will be, these salaries will continue to go down. If I was starting up an airline, why the hell would I consider any other option in my business plan. Same thing with teachers. There's a reason doctors and lawyers get paid so much (most, not all). You need to go to school for a long time and be a lot smarter than the average joe. That's not true for airline pilots. There are still places you can go and fly without a college degree. Fact is, it's a trade skill, much like fixing a car or an air conditioner. Yes, you have the responsibility of passenger's lives but the fact is, the training and technology eliminates most of that risk. My advice, get an MBA like me! Off soapbox.

This is the only post worth reading today...now where can I get Grandma Schwetty's ball recipe?

 

[ultrarunner]

People seem to forget that this is simply a supply and demand market.

No argument there. It's a great cycle to watch. Think about it...it won't be long till we see the (insert airline) + 1% bag stickers again!

Remember that? Geez, I'm cracking myself up...

good luck out there!

 

[temcgrew]

There's a reason doctors and lawyers get paid so much (most, not all). You need to go to school for a long time and be a lot smarter than the average joe. That's not true for airline pilots. There are still places you can go and fly without a college degree. Fact is, it's a trade skill, much like fixing a car or an air conditioner. Yes, you have the responsibility of passenger's lives but the fact is, the training and technology eliminates most of that risk. My advice, get an MBA like me! Off soapbox.

Doctors make alot of money because insurance pays them, if our our medical system was competitive (thank goodness it's not!!) then prices would go down!
Hopefully, doctors would not go out in the free market and compete with low wages, you would wonder about the trade off in the care and treatment you actually get.

They are "paid protected" in a sense and the only factor they worry about is malpractice insurance so they don't lose the benz when they get sued.

We are our own worst enemy, sad but true.

Glad you got the MBA, good for you. Did you get the soap box with the diploma?

 

[bravodude]

reddogggg....The glory days are OVER for Southworst....Jokes on YOU.

skybuss wanabee.......THE JOKE IS ON YOU!!!!!!BUD

 

[WabiSabi]

65k for an Airbus Capt and 30k for an F.O.? Wow. Learn from the Starbucks' barista and don't forget to prime your tip jars!

Oh, and you'll see this on the Skybus lavs!

 

[Box-Hauler]

It all comes down to economics. $10 base fare for an airline ticket. Wow that is cheap. Even if you add in 12 bucks for taxes you are looking at under $25 one way. $50 for a round trip. Yes you have to plan because there are only a few seats available; that is called marketing. SWA did it, Jet blue copied it. Delta song tried it......... heck they all tried it but the cost structure (employee pay) was a big problem. Lower the pay / benefits / inflight perks and you get more affordable tickets.

I think they call it supply and demand, the free market, its called FREEDOM, its what this county was built on and all the cry babies are pooh poohing it. If you do not like it go start your own airline and try to compete, and when you do PM me so I can send in my resume. I am looking to make 100K+ plus benies, and I only want to work Tues - Thurs. Out and back only. Thanks in advance for the job.........:beer:

 

[Shrek]

If I did start an airline I wouldn't hire former Shame-Train pilots THAT is for sure !!

 

[retired guy]

A couple of points (1) those $10.00 fares are "introductory" fares. They`ll go up, with a very small number of seats at $10.00. Just enough to sucker folks in. (2) Why do doctors make so much? Because the AMA controls the number of spots in the med schools. (3) Lawyers? Don`t get me started on that bunch. Avoid all of these blood suckers if at all possible. ( He says that after paying his daughters way through law school...she saw the light and quit "practicing" law...and married a doctor)

 

[bgaviator]

A couple of points (1) those $10.00 fares are "introductory" fares. They`ll go up, with a very small number of seats at $10.00. Just enough to sucker folks in. (2) Why do doctors make so much? Because the AMA controls the number of spots in the med schools. (3) Lawyers? Don`t get me started on that bunch. Avoid all of these blood suckers if at all possible. ( He says that after paying his daughters way through law school...she saw the light and quit "practicing" law...and married a doctor)

Oh my God....I don't know how many times it has to be said that every flight at least has ten $10 seats on it. It's been said from day one....no secrets about it. They aren't going to go away even though you would be hard pressed to find many $10 seats left. The $10 thing will just be one of the things they're known for. Even if you don't get to grab a $10 seat, the next set has a decent amount of seats for $30, then $50 and so on. It's all yield management which every airline does....Skybus just starts theirs lower.

 

[Shrek]

Oh my God....I don't know how many times it has to be said that every flight at least has ten $10 seats on it. It's been said from day one....no secrets about it. They aren't going to go away even though you would be hard pressed to find many $10 seats left. The $10 thing will just be one of the things they're known for. Even if you don't get to grab a $10 seat, the next set has a decent amount of seats for $30, then $50 and so on. It's all yield management which every airline does....Skybus just starts theirs lower.

Yup.....just like a real airline........only "LOWER".......

 

[Skaz]

Ok guys, DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT FLAME BAIT....really

I have been out of the country for a few months, and have noticed Skybus are hiring and posting ads online. Could somebody please explain to me why a lot of pilots out there view Skybus pilots as scabs and there's a no-fly list or something they are on?

Why? I dont get it. Right now I get 52K working in a 'management' type job in aviation ...read, "I'm a pilot and should be flying but my boss is a f(*&^(* liar and I am stuck behind a desk, not getting what I was promised", poor me.....now, for an opportunity to go fly an Airbus and get paid 65K....hell, thats a step up for me, a big one. It will improve my QOL, living in LA whare its bloody expensive, I get more jet time etc etc

So why is this airline and its pilots viewed with so much animosity by others? Are these pilots stealing jobs from furloughed or laid-off pilots like the Cathay thing a while ago? Whats going on here? Didnt we all start out with a fresh CPL, wanting the big job, working towards getting that dream job, building time we need, until we get to where we 'thought' we wanted to be. Face it, there is no more plces where you want to retire...just places you work and maybe get a good pension.

Please somebody explain to me why going to work for Skybus will ruin my future, as opposed to going to Continental or Netjets or Kalitta or anybody else.

Thanks in advance

 

[goodgig]

Ok guys, DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT FLAME BAIT....really

I have been out of the country for a few months, and have noticed Skybus are hiring and posting ads online. Could somebody please explain to me why a lot of pilots out there view Skybus pilots as scabs and there's a no-fly list or something they are on?

Why? I dont get it. Right now I get 52K working in a 'management' type job in aviation ...read, "I'm a pilot and should be flying but my boss is a f(*&^(* liar and I am stuck behind a desk, not getting what I was promised", poor me.....now, for an opportunity to go fly an Airbus and get paid 65K....hell, thats a step up for me, a big one. It will improve my QOL, living in LA whare its bloody expensive, I get more jet time etc etc

So why is this airline and its pilots viewed with so much animosity by others? Are these pilots stealing jobs from furloughed or laid-off pilots like the Cathay thing a while ago? Whats going on here? Didnt we all start out with a fresh CPL, wanting the big job, working towards getting that dream job, building time we need, until we get to where we 'thought' we wanted to be. Face it, there is no more plces where you want to retire...just places you work and maybe get a good pension.

Please somebody explain to me why going to work for Skybus will ruin my future, as opposed to going to Continental or Netjets or Kalitta or anybody else.

Thanks in advance

How can that not be flame bait?
Have you actually read what most peoples opinion is on the subject around here? If you have, you would not need to ask the question.

That said, do what you have to do. It's your shoes you have to wear.

 

[skiandsurf]

It comes down to pay and benifits. An Airbus captain should be making at least $100,000. Skybus is only paying captains $65,000.

Most of us are trying to keep the flying jobs, good paying jobs. While others are happy to lower the bar.

 

[Skaz]

goodgig if I said its not flame bait, its not. I do have some integrity and ethical values. I'm asking because I want to understand the rationale behind the posts of other pilots. I have been in the far east for months, have become dissillusioned with my present employment and am looking to further my career. Getting paid $65K flying an Airbus is an advancement for me. Apparently you have a better job, congratulations. If I can get a position with another company such as Net Jets, Continental or similar, then I'll grab it with both hands. If not, then I'll take the best I can get for now. Thank you for your informative and eloquent response.

skiandsurf I understand what you say, you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. So for a position as A319 Cpt, having the responsibilities and experience etc, the position should pay $100K. But who decides this figure, the pilots, or the airline management? You might think you are worth $x, but if managment offers less than that, and you have no other option for employment, what do you do? Starve, go work at Gamestop or Burger King and get 18K as manager? Or do you take a flying position that helps you build hours and experience, mybe even get a type till you can advance to a better company?

It is all good and well for anybody to say you shouldnt take Job X, but lets be realistic.

 

[temcgrew]

Ok guys, DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT FLAME BAIT....really

I have been out of the country for a few months,
Thanks in advance

Maybe you've been under a rock. Maybe you are still there if you don't understand the animosity.

 

[Skaz]

oh f@k you, I asked for a decent answer, if you can't manage that, then dont respond. Be pissed at management, not other pilots trying to make a living.

so what are you flying and what do you get paid?
just for argument's sake, lets say a G III and you get 55K as Capt. The owner of the company dies in a car crash, his widow sells all the company's assets and you are out of a job. You go work in retail or manage a hair salon for 30K, unhappy and dissillusioned, you post your resume online. You get a call from Company XYZ offering you 65K as Capt to fly a BBJ.

Are you going to take it? Of course you are! Or would you have me believe that, out of solidarity with your fellow aviators and your strong values, you would refuse the position, because you dont live under a rock and you dont want to bring the whole industry crashing down.

every single one of you finger-pointing-mudslinging-b1tches will look after Number 1 first and scr3w everybody else. To deny it is a blatant lie.

 

[RedDogC130]

Finally the truth comes out. I wish others would wake up. If you say you would not fly for peanuts...how many came from the regional route or are still there...

 

[CA1900]

Finally the truth comes out. I wish others would wake up. If you say you would not fly for peanuts...how many came from the regional route or are still there...

I did. Flying a 1900, my salary was about $2000 per year per seat. Compare that to about $1500 per seat, making $200K to fly a 137-seat 737. Way to lower the bar, SWA.

 

[vixin]

Id say you were an idiot for flyimg a GIII for only 55g as a CA. No I would not take a BBJ job for 65g, that is pathetic. You need to get paid for the experience you have. There are other jobs out there. Heck I flew a kingair for 68g. Its a loser that will take those low paying jobs that keep them around. Nodody takes the job, pay will increase. Why the morons at Skytrash cant figure that out is another question. I guess they liked to be used and abused idiots.

 

[temcgrew]

I know we all can't work for the companies that pay well, that is just a fact of life. But to make less than a Burger King manager to fly an airbus is terrible.

 

[temcgrew]

You go work in retail or manage a hair salon for 30K, unhappy and dissillusioned, you post your resume online. You get a call from Company XYZ offering you 65K as Capt to fly a BBJ.

If you were working in a hair salon maybe you should be looking in the flight attendant section.

65K as the lead F/A position might be worth it!

 

[PimpJuice]

It comes down to pay and benifits. An Airbus captain should be making at least $100,000. Skybus is only paying captains $65,000.

Most of us are trying to keep the flying jobs, good paying jobs. While others are happy to lower the bar.

Wrong!! Airbus captains should be making what the market and economics dictate! Why should they be making at least 100k? Because at one time legacy carriers paid captains well into the several 6 figures? There is a long line of pilots willing to fly for 65k as a captain. Guess what, that means an airbus captain should be making 65k!! You can't just throw out a number like 100k. Like I said earlier in the thread, this job is a trade skill and today's salaries reflect that. New start up airlines as well as legacies that have gone through Ch 11 realize this. I think SWA will soon follow (to an extent). With rising fuel prices and consumer demand for lower fares, carriers can't find any other ways to increase operating margins. Of course they are going to go after labor.

 

[PimpJuice]

Id say you were an idiot for flyimg a GIII for only 55g as a CA. No I would not take a BBJ job for 65g, that is pathetic. You need to get paid for the experience you have. There are other jobs out there. Heck I flew a kingair for 68g. Its a loser that will take those low paying jobs that keep them around. Nodody takes the job, pay will increase. Why the morons at Skytrash cant figure that out is another question. I guess they liked to be used and abused idiots.

I think that's a pretty outrageous statement. Tell that to someone with a family to feed and a mortgage.


....back to my schwetty balls.