The RJDC is a cancer on the industry

[surplus1]

If this is true, why not file for formal legal recognition as single carrier status under the NMB?

I really hate to do this but I truly feel that both you and Braniff need to educate yourselves on what "single carrier status under the NMB" actually means. You obviously don't know.

The fact is we already have single carrier status as defined by the NMB. We are represented by the same collective bargaining agent, i.e., the ALPA. That is all that it means.

If it meant what you fellas seem to believe it does, we would have long since applied and won. The criteria established by the NMB for operational integration are minimal and have all been exceeded. It is only the politically motivated imagination of the ALPA Executive Council that concludes we are not operationally integrated. Their conclusion is as meaningless as your supposition.

Sorry, I don't mean to chastise you personally for your views and it is not my intent to offend you but like much of the rhetoric on this and other forums, the makers are more often uninformed, misinformed. illinformed or more simply, in left field asking who's on first.

Unfortunately, that is a primary factor in our inability to achieve constructive dialogue, let alone a settlement of the issues that divide us.

 

[surplus1]

Besides, if your qualifications were so godlike, why aren't you flying a UAL 747-400? THAT's the top of the world, airline-wise. But let me guess, you're going to save the world from the seat on a CL-65.
Braniff

That's really childish and I should ignore it. However, there is a simple reason why I am not flying a UAL 747-400. I don't work for United Airlines. I suspect you work for Delta, therefore it is unlikely that you will fly a 747-400 either.

By the way, I stopped comparing who's was bigger when I got out of high school. This sort of banter is beneath us both, so stop it.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Just a couple of quick points to clear up some misconceptions that seem to be floating around this board. It has been said that DALPA did, or does, not want to fly rjs. One poster even used the fact that ASA does not have many furloughed Delta guys applying as evidence of this. For the record, I will not apply to ASA because I will not commute to reserve for first year f/o pay at ASA. Been there, done that. However, that does not mean that I would not want to fly them for Delta.

Anyway, on to my points...

#1. Delta pilots have absolutely zero power to force management to buy a certain airplane, nor do we have any power to refuse any airplanes. Management can buy and operate any airplane they want, and we cannot do a thing about it...nor would we want to.

#2. Despite what has been stated on these boards, the Delta pilot group is not, nor have they ever been against flying rjs. Perhaps a few idiots have made stupid statements to the contrary, but that doesn't change the official stance of the Delta MEC. We want now the same thing that we always have, for Delta to abide by our contract. It is not our decision how they do that. I hope that they continue to grow the airline. However, there is only one legal way that they do that...Once they hit the block hour limit, further growth must be mainline. Management is attempting to break our contract on block hour restrictions, claiming "circumstances beyond their control" are preventing them from complying with our contract. We are grieving this, and I think that we will win. As far as I am concerned, the grievance should go something like this...

Arbitrator: Do you have control over who flies your airplanes?

Company: Yes.

Arbitrator: Do you have control over what airline gets your new airplanes?

Company: Yes.

Arbitrator: Then these circumstances are not beyond your control. You lose. Comply with the contract that you signed!


That is how I hope the grievance will go. Of course in real life there will be a lot more lawyertalk, but you get the jist! Hopefully the outcome is the same. I suppose we'll have to wait and see.

 

[WIDGETBOY]

I love all these post about senior guys at the regional with there so called great pay and quailty of life and not wanting to go back to reserve.

1. reserve- if you commute weather at a major or regional it sucks but if you live at you base at some majors such as Delta it can be good with there 12 hour long call. Consider this my Dad also works for Delta and is a junior MD-88/90 CA at dfw and was on reserve all last year and only work 64 days last year and made 210K and lives over 2 hrs from dfw. I would say not to bad.

2. Pay- Before 9-11 I was going to be a DD-88/90 fo and in May of this year I was going to be on 2nd year pay. My pay was going to be a min. of 7600 a month or just over 91K a year on reserve. Again I would say not to bad.

3. Quailty of life- I was at eagle for 2 1/2 years and for most of it I was a ATR FO at DFW which had the best lines at eagle. Even when I left the ATR at #11 on the seniorty list my best line was not as good as my SRL line after 3 month on line Delta which was 3 on 7 off 3 on 6 off 5 on 4 off 3 on.

If you suport RJDC you may never have the chance to experince the life at a major which in most cases is better than any life at a regional.

 

[Timebuilder]

I think your lifestyle comparisons are valid.

If, however, you look at the Big Picture, and include the economy, the post 9/11 social and political environment, not to mention what was happening at the Majors before these changes during a robust economy, you will realize that there is a paradigm shift.

The result of this shift is the change in flying overall, from commercial to fractional and private, and from large to small jet.

The bottom line is the loss of much of what we know as Mainline flying. Southwest will be doing well in five years. US probably won't. Delta, AA, and United have a long, long,road ahead. This means that a great many of us won't be flying for a Major in our careers (we can't all fly for Southwest or some other large airframe carrier) so we will be manning the cockpits that WILL be flying: corporate, fractional, regional, and the like.

Very few of us, although we wish you Major pilots no ill will, have a realistic possibility of being damaged by this ALPA problem. It would be a tragedy indeed if a settlement can not be reached before a judge rules. As a Delta pilot, and a holder of what most of us think of as "The Dream Job", you should be "highly motivated" to get this thing done.

The rest of us, most of us, are interested bystanders where Delta is concerned. A better life for the RJ crew, on the other hand, will have a very large impact for most of us. That's the dog that I have in this fight.

 

[73GDog]

I regularly fly with Captains that are retired military, usually O-5, and once even an O-6. They are mostly fighter guys. Lots of masters degrees. They are all WELL qualified to fly for DAL or ANY other major.



Caveman,
I flew the RJ for ASA and have to say that the vast majority of Captains I flew with were not college educated. I regularly fly with Captains at Delta who have graduate degrees but never at ASA. Maybe things have changed at the regionals since I left.

 

[73GDog]

I think your lifestyle comparisons are valid.



The result of this shift is the change in flying overall, from to fractional and private, and from large to small jet


Timebuilder,
I have to disagree that the majority of flying will shift from large aircraft to small aircraft. Although it certainly looks that way today with everything that is going on with the RJ, we still have a very big problem facing our national air traffic system; a lack of concrete. An RJ takes up a slot same as a 777 and I believe certain airports like LaGuardia which accept RJs will at some point in time deny any aircraft with under say, 150 seats from landing. Certain airports need to maximize the number of passengers due to limited slots. I very well may be way off on this however; I believe the RJ will peak in the next couple of years and volume will be the answer to many problems ATC is facing. I believe management is using the RJ as a tool to cause damage to the piloting profession and realizes the RJ is not the answer to its problems.

 

[Braniff]

Hey ~~~~^~~~~ - if flying at your airline admittedly doesn't "pay the bills" why in hell do you want to allow that to fester through the industry?

I keep hearing about "...making $100,000..." flying an RJ. I'm not sure where you guys live, but $100,000 really isn't a lot of money after taxes in this profession.

Besides, $100,000 is FRIGGEN 3rd YEAR FO PAY! That's not much to brag about. Besides, my brother without a college degree almost makes that working for a cheese products company -- in PRODUCTION. True story! Wearing white smock and a hair net can pay pretty well to my suprise.

If it takes me 18 years to crack $100,000, I wouldn't run out and build a parade float about it.

Braniff

 

[TurboS7]

I have been told that pilot's only know how to destroy themselves and their jobs. After reading all of this RJDC insanity and see the way everyone goes for it I have to agree with that person. Unemployment went down this week at this rate the pilot unemployment is about to go way up.

 

[Braniff]

Surplus 1

You said, "That's really childish and I should ignore it. However, there is a simple reason why I am not flying a UAL 747-400. I don't work for United Airlines. I suspect you work for Delta, therefore it is unlikely that you will fly a 747-400 either. "

A ha!

So I should *sue* UAL for my inability to fly a 747-400. We'll call it the "Big Jet Defense Network".

But I'll settle for the low price of $100,000,000. And one of those CD's with "Rhapsody in Blue" on it so I can play it on the drive to work.

But if you want to fly the big jets, apply for an airline that FLIES the big jets.

I'm going to laugh my ass off when the judge says, "Well, did you bother APPLYING to mainline?" "Umm, no sir, I chose to ignore the biggest hiring swing in 20 years", "Case dismissed".

Braniff