The Regional Situation

[Andy]

So come June '07, we had our language in there, or what I assume was the best we could get. ALPA dropped it's opposition, and the legislation rapidly passed as I'm pretty sure we were the only organization with any amount of weight holding it up.

There was only one change to the language of the bill after alpo got involved.
The change allowed two over 60 pilots to fly domestically.
You are correct, the only thing that held up the change was alpo.

 

[PCL_128]

I'm sorry, but I stopped reading after you said "alpo."

 

[Andy]

Especially when he's coming back to a carrier that has a contract coming up in DEC '09 and needs EVERYONE pulling on the same end of the ALPA rope, despite the flaws we all know ALPA has.

Funny, you senior guys didn't need us pulling on the same rope when we were out on the street and
1) Dumped longevity for furloughees between ERP I and ERP II. The longevity was given to the pilots in trade for dropping opposition to the no furlough clause.
2) Voted on C2003 to increase maximum monthly hours to near FAR maximums, leaving me out on the street for an extra couple of years. (And I thought that the pilots learned from the Blue Skies contract).
3) Left a good chunk of us out of the bond distribution because we hadn't been recalled prior to the distribution, unlike DAL and NWA's pilots. See #2 above as to why I was on furlough during the distribution.

You didn't care about me back than; I wasn't on property so you washed your hands of me. NOW you want me to pull on the same rope?

 

[Jimmy C. Corn]

Very well said...Should be entertaining to see how ualdriver will spin those unpleasant facts.

 

[Andy]

Ualdriver, I'm willing to give UAL ALPA one more chance.
The company wants to get rid of age 59 bypass. Trade that for longevity for anyone furloughed. This would be timely, especially since age 65 is going to end up resulting in furloughs if UAL trims the flight schedule significantly.
While it benefits those on the bottom, it also benefits the rest of the list because it gives the company a bit less of an economic incentive to furlough.

 

[ualdriver]

There was only one change to the language of the bill after alpo got involved.
The change allowed two over 60 pilots to fly domestically.
You are correct, the only thing that held up the change was alpo.

You are wrong. Feel free to read page 35 of the FEB '08 ALPA magazine because obviously you're not going to believe me.

 

[Lear70]

Not sure I believe ANYTHING ALPA says at this point, whether it's in their magazine or not.

Best proof would lie in the Federal Register, comparing the original bill in committee to the final bill that was signed.

 

[ualdriver]

Funny, you senior guys didn't need us pulling on the same rope when we were out on the street and
1) Dumped longevity for furloughees between ERP I and ERP II. The longevity was given to the pilots in trade for dropping opposition to the no furlough clause.
2) Voted on C2003 to increase maximum monthly hours to near FAR maximums, leaving me out on the street for an extra couple of years. (And I thought that the pilots learned from the Blue Skies contract).
3) Left a good chunk of us out of the bond distribution because we hadn't been recalled prior to the distribution, unlike DAL and NWA's pilots. See #2 above as to why I was on furlough during the distribution.

You didn't care about me back than; I wasn't on property so you washed your hands of me. NOW you want me to pull on the same rope?

OK. I think I'm getting it now. You're pissed off because you were furloughed and it's the senior guy's fault and ALPA's fault. Got it.

You really think we gave anything up because we wanted to?? We were in bankruptcy Andy, with a CEO who wanted to squeeze every ounce of blood out of us. We had a down economy, airlines like JetBlue, Airtran, and Frontier MASSIVELY undercutting every aspect of our contract and slowly killing us. The US economy sucked. We had SARS killing our international routes, etc., etc.

I bet you didn't know that our company's opener was to basically take UAL and split IN HALF with TWO different seniority lists. Did you know that? That's what those guys were working from. Do you really thing we/I enjoy working 95 hours EVERY month? GMAFB. You know dam* well what we were up against with this executive team and the bankruptcy judge who was giving those guys EVERYTHING they wanted. So don't give me "we didn't care." It was either negotiate or "let the judge decide." There was NO WAY we wanted that judge to decide on ANYTHING. It's not like we all said, yeah let's just get rid of 2,172 guys- who cares.

As far as the bond goes, you had the chance to take your pension money out when you were a furloughee. Nobody still on the property had that opportunity. I would have LOVED to have that opportunity. And just out of curiousity, Andy, could you have come back by the cutoff date, or did you choose to stay out?

And for that "you don't want to pull on the same end of the rope?" Great Andy. Enjoy this sucky, POS contract for that much longer. The more guys like you on this property who waive the contract, accept overtime and help the company out of their self-induced problems in order to give UA ALPA, or "the senior guy" the finger, the longer Tilton can stall in negotiating a new contract or giving us some "gives" like the one we got two months ago THROUGH UNITY. You can fight ALPA later.

 

[ualdriver]

Ualdriver, I'm willing to give UAL ALPA one more chance.

Andy, I really don't care how many chances you want to give ALPA. You and I both know that down the road ALPA National or UA ALPA is going to do something that you and/or I won't personally like for whatever reason. You may as well give up now if they're only getting "one more chance" to keep you happy and/or not piss you or I off. I can't think of any large organization that I belong to that doesn't frequently make decisions that are contrary to what I want them to do.

All I know is that despite how terrible you think ALPA is, it must be "good enough" for you to choose to come back as we all know there are PLENTY of non-union and/or non-ALPA carriers that you could have gotten on with years ago. You chose to come back to an union carrier, ALPA is the union on the property, and you're going to have to choose a side almost immediately when you come back to the line. In case you haven't noticed, we don't exactly have a "friendly" relationship with the boys on Wacker Drive.

 

[Andy]

And just out of curiousity, Andy, could you have come back by the cutoff date, or did you choose to stay out?

No, I was not offered recall prior to the cutoff date.

 

[Andy]

The more guys like you on this property who waive the contract, accept overtime and help the company out of their self-induced problems in order to give UA ALPA, or "the senior guy" the finger, the longer Tilton can stall in negotiating a new contract or giving us some "gives" like the one we got two months ago THROUGH UNITY.

Waive the contract? Accept overtime? I'm junior on reserve. Please.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Dubya,
I have first hand knowledge of many of the (as you say) "really scary stories" which Sedona speaks. Unfortunately for the deaf and blind pilots at SkyWest he speaks the truth. Is ALPA broken? Probably, but I would much rather drink the ALPA koolaid and try to enact positive change in our industry then continue in our current free fall.

Trust me. Sedona is on our side.

Trying to talk logic and common sense to a poster who has named himself after the the current president, who by almost every presidential historian, has been labeled the "worst president in history", is futile at best. Sorry about the run on, I gotta go take a dump(W).
PBR