The Passion of the Christ

[redd]

Billy Jack..but wait, there's more!

And what about Easy Rider, that movie spawned tons of peace activists, drug addics, and hog riders-another classic!

 

[wms]

The only other reference I can find about Malchus is in John 18:26

I may be mistaken. I thought I heard this in ministry, but it may have had to do with those that had witnessed this miracle, still bound the Lord and took Him away. I'll look into it some more.

 

[Typhoon1244]

...we had The Trial of Billy Jack for that. I still wake up in the morning humming "give peace a chance," before recovering long enough to kick someone in the stomach with bare feet.

Avbug, I've changed my signature line in honor of you.

You're welcome.

 

[TonyC]

READ THE BOOK FIRST !

I caught an early-afternoon matinee where less than 10% of the stadium rocking-chair style seats were occupied. I bought my tickets in advance over the Internet thinking it might be sold out - - I should have saved the dollar service charge.

For a movie that purports to be historically and scripturally accurate, the "artist" has been given a tremendous amount of latitude. Who knew that Jesus invented the "tall table"?!?!

As for inaccuracies, they began in the opening scene, and continued throughout. My mental list of the discrepancies quickly grew too large to remember until the end of the 2 hour and 7 minute ordeal. Although I don't feel it would be constructive to begin listing them, it must be noted that the story is NOT completely accurate.

The character that supposedly represents Satan embodied in a human likeness, albeit crawling with insects in his nostrils, is somehow projected in a snake that crawls out of his tunic and towards the kneeling figure of the praying Christ. Seconds before the snake could have stricken Christ, He stands and stomps on the snake, crushing its head. I suppose this is supposed to represent the accomplishment of God's pronouncement to Satan in the Garden of Eden that "he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel." (Genesis 3:15) The literal crushing of a snake is certainly not what is referred to here. On the contrary, this final blow to Satan's head occurs when Christ arises from the dead on the third day, triumphant over death. Having paid the price for the sin for all mankind, then, he achieves the ultimate victory over the power of Satan and death. Gibson's treatment of this subject demonstrates his lack of understanding on this important point, or his willingness to employ artistic license where such is unnecessary to tell the true story.

For what it's worth, I can think of no better way to impress upon the members of our visually geared society the deplorable brutality that Christ underwent on the way to the cross. The impact is stunning. Indelible impressions will be made. Men and women will wince, and avert their eyes, and grow sick as they view the animalistic treatment he received, the barbaric torture he endured.

But in the end, I doubt that those who do not already know the story will gain much from the movie apart from the images. As it is subtitled, and little information is supplied apart from the sparse dialogue (after all, they had to gear it towards a 7th-grade reading level) it's difficult to tell who's who, or what's what. For instance, I don't recall Pilate ever being referred to as Pilate, and unless you happen to know this from a previous reading of the gospel, the significance would most likely be lost on a less-learned viewer. You have to be a careful, interested viewer to understand that one of the "characters" is Jesus' mother until very near the end of the movie.

I think that much more can be gained, then, by an hour of reading the Gospel of John, giving attention to those chapters which recall the sermon on the mount, the triumphal return to Jerusalem, the last supper, the prayers in the Garden of Gethsemane, the illegal activities of the night when Jesus was "captured," the "trials" and the crucifixion of Jesus, and the empty tomb.

If you haven't seen the movie, and you insist on going, I recommend reading the book first.

 

[Hawker1]

I'll throw mine in. I saw it tonight, and the place was packed. The movie was great. I have to comend Mel Gibson on putting all this hard work into a film with such enormity. I was moved by it all. I think it really set in when we started out of theater and everyone was speachless... "Be still and know that I am God"... That verse came to mind when I experienced the quietness. I agree with Tony C about how I never saw Pilate be called, Pilate. All in all, an awesome film. I hope it moves others as it did myself.

 

[JetSpeed219]

I agree, I thought the film was very good and quite intense.....very powerful to see what he went through.....

 

[Freddie Spencer]

Is there any evidence that it really happend, besides the bible ? I bet there are billions of people around the world that do not agree with you, so how can you then be so sure jesus is not just another "Easter Bunny"?

 

[snoopy_1]

I'm interested now, just because of the stir its made, although I don't think the bible is anything more than someone's wild imagination from years ago.
I have a very hard time believing anything written in the bible, turn a stick into a snake and turn water into blood, I'll believe it when I see it, and it's written it the goofy godd dam language that I can't understand and I wind up getting bored with it, cause I can't understand it.

I do believe that you get out of life what you put into it.
Years ago when whoever fantasized and wrote the bible, life must have been a lot different and I can understand why that person would spend so much time fantasizing.

 

[Super 80]

it's written it the goofy godd dam language that I can't understand and I wind up getting bored with it, cause I can't understand it.

Good for you Snoopy, you run hot and cold. Try this, go to a Christian Book store. Ask for an N-I-V Bible. They can be fairly cheap, too. I bought one in hardcover for $8 several years ago. It's written in plain English, just like the Apostles wrote it to their contemporaries 2000 years ago, in the plain everyday language they were used to using in discussing ideas in that region of the world, at that time: Greek.

Now once you buy it, work hard to disprove it. That is one of the surest ways to become a believer.

 

[wms]

About 40 different men writing more than 60 books over a period of 4-5000 years, supporting each other and making the same points without contradiction; thousands of years of prophesy being fulfilled throughout various ages, that's more than fantasy.

Try the New King James. It's easy to read without the changes to context. Compare verses like Heb 1:5, Ps 2:7, etc. Some versions change these these and other references which down-play the eternal son-ship and diety of Christ. For biblical poetry and meaning in its purest form, try the King James.

There are also good one year Bibles that have a little OT and a little NT each day. The whole Bible can be read in a year in 15 minutes a day.

 

[Ailerongirl]

Re: READ THE BOOK FIRST !

Men and women will wince, and avert their eyes, and grow sick as they view the animalistic treatment he received, the barbaric torture he endured.

Tony,
I keep hearing differing viewpoints on this subject, but in light of what you wrote, do you believe that this is a movie that children should watch? Do you feel that they will understand what the movie is about, or will they be more scared?

 

[wms]

But in the end, I doubt that those who do not already know the story will gain much from the movie apart from the images. As it is subtitled, and little information is supplied apart from the sparse dialogue (after all, they had to gear it towards a 7th-grade reading level) it's difficult to tell who's who, or what's what. For instance, I don't recall Pilate ever being referred to as Pilate, and unless you happen to know this from a previous reading of the gospel, the significance would most likely be lost on a less-learned viewer. You have to be a careful, interested viewer to understand that one of the "characters" is Jesus' mother until very near the end of the movie.

I have not seen the movie, and would rather leave my understanding of Christ to what is written in the Bible. I understand that there is a lot of "what" Jesus suffered and not "why" He suffered it. People who don't have Christ may feel pity and compassion for what He suffered as a man, but probably won't change their beliefs concerning who He really is and why He went to the cross. How many people celebrate christmas and sing the songs about the Saviour coming into the world, but don't really believe or even care.

Is there any evidence that it really happened, besides the bible ? I bet there are billions of people around the world that do not agree with you, so how can you then be so sure jesus is not just another "Easter Bunny"?

Roman and Jewish history support it. They also support the work, preaching, imprisonment and execution of the Apostles (those who saw Him) and others afterward.

 

[mar]

Men will wince. Avert your eyes.

This post may offend some Christians. Now is the time to scroll along.

First, Ailerongirl, I would not take a child less than 12 years old to this movie. The violence is, as I said, over the top.

Also the depiction of the devil can be quite disturbing in some scenes.

Not only that, but the whole thing is subtitled for two hours. I can't imagine a small child sitting through it.

Now on the topic of mythology:

Look, I'm an unrepentant atheist (former Catholic) but I approach the story of Jesus as a myth. Every myth has some basis in reality but more importantly mythology is critical to culture because it defines who we are as a society.

Therefore, even if you don't buy into the myth 100% that doesn't mean it's not worth spending time to understand the story a little better.

I do enjoy different versions of the story of Jesus. And I admit there probably was, at one time, a true man named Jesus who suffered unspeakable torture and condemnation. And he probably thought he was the son of God.

I don't deny any of it.
I just don't believe in God.
It was still a good movie and I'm glad I went.

 

[avbug]

he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel." (Genesis 3:15)...On the contrary, this final blow to Satan's head occurs when Christ arises from the dead on the third day, triumphant over death.

That's a common misconception. The crusing of the serpent as aluded to in the Genisis reference was spoken to Adam, not to Christ. The "final blow" and the crusing of Satan is to take place following Armageddon and the battle of Gog and Magog, following the release of Satan, following a thousand years of peace.

The atonement was a two-part process; triumph over spiritual death (separation from God), and triumph over physical death.

Scripturally, triumph over spiritual death comes in following the Savior, as he paid the price of admission back to the presence of the Father. Triumph over physical death is a gift free to all, regardless of creed, religion, etc.

Neither triumph was over Satan. Death came upon the world by commandmant and by decision, and is part and parcel with mortality. Satan does not kill, and salvation from death is not salvation from sin, nor from Satan.

Satan attempts to lead mankind from truth, and from following the savior to spiritual salvation, from being saved from the "second death," the spiritual death. In other words tries to stand between man, and God.

In the crucifixion, Satan had no triumph, as it represented him being thwarted in his efforts.

The true suffering came in the Garden of Gesthsemae, where Luke reports that Jesus sweat "as it were great drops of blood." It takes a lot of stress to cause one to sweat blood; taking upon one's self the sins of all mankind produced that stress.

Crucifixion was a fate suffered by thousands upon thousands, and was a standard form of putting people to death. The romans crucified thousands and lined roads with their crosses as symbology of the futility of fighting or rebelling againt the empire.

The true horror of crucifixion wasn't the nails; it was the slow suffocation over several days, leaving one to literally suffocate one's self in exhaustion, but only after fighting it for days on end.

So...is it really true that there wasn't any nudity?

 

[mar]

Just diapers...

Avbug--No sir. No nudity.

The most skin you get to see is Jesus and the two prisoners in their "diapers" (for lack of a better word). Almost everyone wears long dark robes--even Mary Magdalene.

But then, if you like "Gladiator Movies"...

<wink, wink>
<nudge, nudge>

...there are the Roman guards to gaze at...

AVERT YOUR EYES!!!

 

[TonyC]

Re: Re: READ THE BOOK FIRST !

Tony,
I keep hearing differing viewpoints on this subject, but in light of what you wrote, do you believe that this is a movie that children should watch? Do you feel that they will understand what the movie is about, or will they be more scared?

Absolutely not.

There was a small child, about 4 or 5, that was seated behind me. I think it was child abuse to have such a child sit through the movie. I know she could not have possibly read the subtitles or had the slightest clue what all the blood-slinging was about.

My 17-yr-old daughter asked me if she could see the movie. I told her no, too. As I stated above, more can be gained from an hour of reading the book. The movie has enough violence, in my opinion, to receive an NC-17 rating.

I'm not saying that the violence was unrealistic. Scourging is a brutal practice. Mel Gibson took John Chapter 19 Verse 1 "Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him." and turned it into a 10 minute explanation of how a scourging could have been done. The result is blood spattered over the Roman soldiers, head to toe, and pools of blood on the ground all around. Flesh is ripped from his body, and ribs are clearly visible. But it is no more necessary for a person to actually view the violence to understand that it was brutal, than it is that a person must witness Christ firsthand to have faith in Him. (By the way, this highlights another of the inaccuracies of the movie. Scripture tells us that Pilate TOOK Jesus and scourged him. The movie depicts Pilate sending Jesus off to be "punished severely" to apease the Jews. He did not take part in the act, nor did he witness it. The administration of the punishment is left up to the Roman soldiers.)

The movie is strictly for a mature, studied viewer.

 

[TonyC]

That's a common misconception. The crusing[sic] of the serpent as aluded to in the Genisis[sic] reference was spoken to Adam, not to Christ. The "final blow" and the crusing[sic] of Satan is to take place following Armageddon and the battle of Gog and Magog, following the release of Satan, following a thousand years of peace.

AvBuddy, you're slipping my friend.

The curse was spoken to Satan.

Genesis 3
14 ¶ And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

 

[Timebuilder]

It was my understanding from a study of Genesis that God first addressed Satan in verse 14, and then turns to Adam to speak to him in verse 15.

I picture the three "guilty" parties, Satan, Adam, and Eve standing in a group, being upbraided by God for this shared event of misleading, allowing oneself to be mislead by disobedience of a direct order, and sharing the disobedience with another.

I admit, though, I am far from being an expert in these matters.

 

[Herman Bloom]

Watch is avbug...tonyc thinks you're slipping. Big trouble.

I love the thought of Tony sitting there just trying to find all of the inaccuracies in the movie. Probably read his bible for hours before he went just so he'd absolutely know that he knew more than the filmakers. And then running out of there so he could sit down at his computer and tell us all about it. Thanks Tony. Insightful as always.

 

[Timebuilder]

Ah.

Herman is being funny.

That took a while to sink in.