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The non-fence agreement

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It?s unfortunate the you feel you?re the only ones losing in this deal. I honestly don?t know why you?re surprised.

After looking at the aircraft list it?s obvious how much trouble FLOPS was in before the DAC purchase of FJ. You guys were mostly a small jet operator with marginal management. After only a short time of being managed by the folks at CGF the fact that you were still in business at all is amazing. KR isn?t parking aircraft at FLOPS just because of the IBT, and not because they?re making too much money. He?s getting rid of them because they?re old, worn out, and not what the market wants. Old XTs and 750s aren?t bringing in new customers so they have to go, that?s what is driving the owner migration to FJ. Small jets are low margin operators, the market segment is saturated with people looking to own a jet but pay for it by charter. It looks like FLOPs was in for a huge dose of pain regardless of what happened with FJ.

When OneSky bought FJ, they gained instant access to a large number of high margin, old airplanes that are in demand and a list of people that were willing to pay for them. Our operation was efficiently run and made money in the last downturn and was in fact making record profit at the time of he sale. Then without warning, and for external reasons. we were sold. Our outlook was good as we had already been suffering the pain of losing our small jets as the LR40/45 fleets were downsized but the 300 fleet was growing. The LR85 failure would have been a hit, but the CL30 would have probably taken it?s place as new 350s became available.

All that aside, what did I expect? During the organizing drive the union was sold as a fair way to keep KR in check and maintain most of what we had at FJ. We knew there would be some losses in seniority but were told we would pretty much be left in tact. However, the last 2 bits of work from the union have been anything but fair. After the shameless SLI we were told not to worry because the fence agreement would protect our jobs. We are again disappointed. IF a CBA is ever reached, the fence agreement is over. The only protection the majority of the FJ crews will have will have to come from the CBA itself. So far the IBT has done everything to promote the FLOPs crews at the expense of the FJ and I don?t expect to change.

I?m very confused about you statement that you?ve been ?getting the crappy end of this deal?. Try adding some facts.
FACT: FJ has worse benefits under DAC than FJ.
FACT: FJ has fewer aircraft now than the date of sale.
FACT: Every aspect of what the FJ operation that defined the company is not GONE.
FACT: FJ & FLOPS have split the 450?s evenly and FLOPs as 50% more seats in the Global.
FACT: FLOPs crew members can transfer over and keep their FLOPS number waiting on the CBA so they can assume the FJ seats.
FACT: At the signing of the the JCBA FLOPs will hold all but about 100 of the PIC seats in the company.

It?s the thinking that the FLOPs guys deserve everything FJ has because KR has been making their lives terrible for so long is the problem. Just as no one on your side cares about how the FJ operation was run, we don?t care about how long you?ve been feeling unloved. That was the old company, this is now OneSky. There?s plenty of hurt to go around for all of us! You shouldn?t get any credit for time served.

What did expect? I expected to be treated as an equal.

The SLI committee has said they were bullied into the agreement. Sign this one or else the next will be worse, that?s not equal.
The fence agreement didn?t recognize the FJ pilots rights to anything, or the equity in sharing the PIC seats after the CBA.
I?m sure the contract will sell out the few remaining things the FJ pilots have now in favor of FLOPs getting a nickel more in pay.

Bottom line, you worked at a marginally run company for too long and now see FJ as your lifeboat and are willing to push us overboard to save yourself.

Let's face it, the root of your angst it that you feel superior to the Options pilots and you're pissed that they were not stapled to the bottom of the FX list, below you.

Here's a news flash for you. A Federal F**king judge has ruled that our SLI was done fairly and equitably. But you're some kind a Sky God right? You deserved to jump to the head of the line?

WAKE UP. You are being plaid like a fiddle in this whip saw game by management.

You've got two choices, find another job, or get involved with our union and help make this place better for all of us.

Thinking decert? When have you seen that actually happen?
 
For the record, not one member of the Flexjet SLI committee was bullied into anything. And not one of us has said anything of the sort.
 
Let's face it, the root of your angst it that you feel superior to the Options pilots and you're pissed that they were not stapled to the bottom of the FX list, below you.

That didn't take long at all.

I'll speak louder so maybe you'll get it.

NO, I DON"T THINK ME OR ANYONE AT THE OLD FJ IS SUPERIOR TO YOU!

YOU HAVE AN INFERIORITY ISSUE!

I NEVER SAID STAPLE. I WOULD NEVER HAVE STOOD FOR AN SLI OR FENCE AGREEMENT THAT STAPLED ANYONE!

Hopefully that got through.

You seem quite content to have 2/3rd or more of the FJ list behind you. You also seem very keen to prove how much better the FLOPs pilots are by equating seniority to skill. You have issues in your life.

If you notice, I never said the pilots were marginal, only the company you work for. There is a big difference.

And the Federal ********************ing Judge did make his decision; he didn't care about the result, only the process as it pertained to the transfer pilots. The issue of how the FJ pilots were treated was NEVER addressed.

Just like the threat of a union was effective for many years, you should consider the threat of a DECERT. BTW: How is the 1108 enjoying the big money flowing in from FJ, all 20 ppl.
 
For the record, not one member of the Flexjet SLI committee was bullied into anything. And not one of us has said anything of the sort.

It must be really awkward having to contridict yourself in public. Next time you might just try saying nothing at all.
 
That didn't take long at all.

I'll speak louder so maybe you'll get it.

NO, I DON"T THINK ME OR ANYONE AT THE OLD FJ IS SUPERIOR TO YOU!

YOU HAVE AN INFERIORITY ISSUE!

I NEVER SAID STAPLE. I WOULD NEVER HAVE STOOD FOR AN SLI OR FENCE AGREEMENT THAT STAPLED ANYONE!

Hopefully that got through.

You seem quite content to have 2/3rd or more of the FJ list behind you. You also seem very keen to prove how much better the FLOPs pilots are by equating seniority to skill. You have issues in your life.

If you notice, I never said the pilots were marginal, only the company you work for. There is a big difference.

And the Federal ********************ing Judge did make his decision; he didn't care about the result, only the process as it pertained to the transfer pilots. The issue of how the FJ pilots were treated was NEVER addressed.

Just like the threat of a union was effective for many years, you should consider the threat of a DECERT. BTW: How is the 1108 enjoying the big money flowing in from FJ, all 20 ppl.


Actually maybe you should read the judges decision before looking a bit foolish.

"The Flight Options /Flexjet pilot circumstances give support that the seniority merger process was fair and reasonable. Recall, both pilot groups were represented by the Pilots Union. And both pilot groups were roughly the same size. While any pilot seniority integration formula would advantage some pilots while disadvantaging others, the formula did not systemically benefit any subgroup of pilots.

Somewhat counterintuitively, the incoming Flexjet pilots generally received higher seniority rankings than the Flight Option pilots."


I separated this part out from the end but this is an exact quote from the judge
 
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Ha. He is saying that you were on the sli committee and that someone on the committee is saying that they were bullied into accepting the list. But as I just posted above this person apparently does not take the time to get his/her facts straight.
 
Ha. He is saying that you were on the sli committee and that someone on the committee is saying that they were bullied into accepting the list. But as I just posted above this person apparently does not take the time to get his/her facts straight.

You are 1 out 2.

First part: swing and a miss. I did read the entire judgement. He declared the PROCESS fair & reasonable. There were other options that would have provided less bias and still been fair and reasonable. As to the FJ pilots receiving higher rankings that has to be the transfer pilots because after number 100 on our list, it?s just not true.


Second part: exactly. In fact, he is the committee member I?ve overheard saying they had no choice.

FWIW: I believe if FLOPs had brought anything to this marriage worth keeping, the fence agreement wouldn't be that bad. As Mr. Goldfish couldn't take into account the future plans of the company he made a fair deal. Yo guys would stay on your side, we'd stay on ours. But, since both mgmt and the union know that we selling the XTs and 750, doubling the size of the group but cutting the number of aircraft in half, this agreement leaves every FJ pilot that's not in the top 100 vulnerable to downgrade and eventual furlough as soon as the CBA is effective.

I'm still waiting to see how the "unfilled vacancies" clause in implemented.
 
You comepletely misunderstood what I was saying if you think I said I was bullied into anything. The only time I said anything about not having a choice was in following the law. We had/have a DFR to all members. I have said we had no choice but to be fair and equitable because it's the law, but I never said, nor did the IBT ever bully me or any other committee member into any position. They accepted everything we did, as long as it met DFR. Management said we didn't meet DFR, and the judge overruled them.
 
As a member of the SLI committee as well, we weren't bullied into anything. That sounds like something RH would say happened. Did we get everything we wanted? Of course not. But that doesn't mean we were bullied into anything. There were far more Flight Options pilots crying foul over the process than Flexjet pilots. In fact, I wish all the sessions had been recorded and put into a time capsule to be opened in 50 years. This crap about us being insignificant in the process is ridiculous. I'll stand by the role we played and no detractor will make me waiver from it.
 
Sounds like there are a few of us that are making unsubstantiated claims. That is how the detractors work. In the end, they just sit on the sidelines and complain. Eventually no one listens to them. These same complainers really do not realize how lucky they are. Uncle could have done to Flex what he wanted to do to Citation Air without our Union to stop him.
 
If you would only....

You are 1 out 2.

First part: swing and a miss. I did read the entire judgement. He declared the PROCESS fair & reasonable. There were other options that would have provided less bias and still been fair and reasonable. As to the FJ pilots receiving higher rankings that has to be the transfer pilots because after number 100 on our list, it?s just not true.


Second part: exactly. In fact, he is the committee member I?ve overheard saying they had no choice.

FWIW: I believe if FLOPs had brought anything to this marriage worth keeping, the fence agreement wouldn't be that bad. As Mr. Goldfish couldn't take into account the future plans of the company he made a fair deal. Yo guys would stay on your side, we'd stay on ours. But, since both mgmt and the union know that we selling the XTs and 750, doubling the size of the group but cutting the number of aircraft in half, this agreement leaves every FJ pilot that's not in the top 100 vulnerable to downgrade and eventual furlough as soon as the CBA is effective.

I'm still waiting to see how the "unfilled vacancies" clause in implemented.

Lucky,
He seem to be well spoken, and spend some time developing your augment(s). If you would only dedicate that BIG brain of yours to helping your fellow Pilots.,i.e, UNION, your world would be spinning on greased axles right now. You don't even have to read tea leaves, or chicken bones to know that we are going to be in your jets, and you in ours.
I get it, it kinda sucks, as y'all have nicer jets, but sure as the suns gonna come up tomorrow:it'll happen.
 
Let's face it, the root of your angst it that you feel superior to the Options pilots and you're pissed that they were not stapled to the bottom of the FX list, below you.

Here's a news flash for you. A Federal F**king judge has ruled that our SLI was done fairly and equitably. But you're some kind a Sky God right? You deserved to jump to the head of the line?

WAKE UP. You are being plaid like a fiddle in this whip saw game by management.

You've got two choices, find another job, or get involved with our union and help make this place better for all of us.

Thinking decert? When have you seen that actually happen?

We only have "two choices, find another job, or get involved with our union"? Really? That sounds like a threat!

I just added a third choice. I'm going to actively work with those who want to decertify. Many at Flex still believe our pain is solely because of the Union vote. Love to see the IBT kicked out!
 
We only have "two choices, find another job, or get involved with our union"? Really? That sounds like a threat!

I just added a third choice. I'm going to actively work with those who want to decertify. Many at Flex still believe our pain is solely because of the Union vote. Love to see the IBT kicked out!

el, You haven't seen pain. Pre-Union days at this place, had me building some time then moving on. Throw in the recession and the lack of hiring at the majors, and I found myself stuck here for awhile. Kenn had a label for us. He knew we were trapped so why pay us? el, you are considered one of the trapped employees. I decided to stand up and vote for the Union. Decertification or an in-house union just doesn't cut it with this guy. He can outspend you, and when you are broke, you will be terminated out of seniority order.
 
We only have "two choices, find another job, or get involved with our union"? Really? That sounds like a threat!

I just added a third choice. I'm going to actively work with those who want to decertify. Many at Flex still believe our pain is solely because of the Union vote. Love to see the IBT kicked out!

Ha. So you wanna be the next Phil? Ask him how that went.
 

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