"The New ATA"

[FDJ2]

In the event that the final deal involves some sort of merger between AWA and ATA, and both pilot groups have ALPA contracts which require a list integration, the ALPA merger and fragmentation policy would most likely control the process from the Policy Initiation Date to the end of Arbitration if need be. These proceedings would be run by ALPA and you can find all the details you could ever care to learn in the ALPA Administrative Manual under the 'Merger and Fragmentation" section.

The ALPA merger and fragmentation policy stipulates the following goals, in no particular order.

1. Preserve jobs

2. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other

3. Maintain or improve pre-merger pay and standards of living

4. Maintain or improve pre-merger pilot status

5. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectation.

I very much doubt that you will see a staple of the ATA list to the AWA list, since that would run contrary to all five of the goals stipulated in ALPA policy, which controls the process. Neither will you probably see a DOH integration.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

As for as a I know we don't serve CVG. I think it would make a great market for us from PHX and LAS, but what do I know? QUOTE]

Hey C73,

I was being somewhat facetious regarding CVG!!! I guess in making my point that we do go beyond the boundries of the United States it lost it's humor...

WD.

 

[Boogenagen]

I agree. Both groups should be happy if it does happen. It will probably mean a lot better job security for everyone. Cmon guys think about it. Win Win... we will see.

 

[Cactus73]

Hey C73,

I was being somewhat facetious regarding CVG!!! I guess in making my point that we do go beyond the boundries of the United States it lost it's humor...

WD.

No problem man. I just wished we did serve CVG because I think we could make $$$ there. DL has a monopoly on the place.
I got your point on the international stuff. I'm in MEX around Christmas time so we definitely cross the borders.

 

[CMonBoard]

The AWA deal is the only one that makes any sense. .... I think George just took the Airtran deal to keep the company running through bankruptcy. Airtran will get there 3 mil. deal breaker fee and AWA ATA will merge.

yes he did, but what I see happening, like it or not, is, the airtran deal going through. airtran will end up hiring all the pilots that it can because it NEEDS them, possibly giving them longevity pay, but no more, at the bottom of the list. some might even be senior to others at ATA because they end up jumping ship early.

george gets to keep his portion of the airline and gets a codeshare agreement. the creditors will get something going forward, but not much.

why would the bankruptcy judge award something to AWA w/o a bunch of cash? assuming debt is nothing. stop looking at this like airline pilots and start looking at it like business people. Indy gets something, chicago gets something, george gets something. the employees get something, but not much.

...unless someone comes in and offers $200 million in cash...

george wants something from this and at first glance (we'll know more by the 10th) he doesn't get anything with the other "offers".

stay tuned.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

No problem man. I just wished we did serve CVG because I think we could make $$$ there. DL has a monopoly on the place.
I got your point on the international stuff. I'm in MEX around Christmas time so we definitely cross the borders.

Mexico during xmas me too. I will be in Cun...

WD.

 

[mt2]

Ah, but this isn't about what George wants. It's about all those people who are owed lots of $$. And if AWA comes in with a deal to assume lots of that debt it's better than the AAI deal which pays $$ to only a select few.

 

[Boogenagen]

yes he did, but what I see happening, like it or not, is, the airtran deal going through. airtran will end up hiring all the pilots that it can because it NEEDS them, possibly giving them longevity pay, but no more, at the bottom of the list. some might even be senior to others at ATA because they end up jumping ship early.

george gets to keep his portion of the airline and gets a codeshare agreement. the creditors will get something going forward, but not much.

why would the bankruptcy judge award something to AWA w/o a bunch of cash? assuming debt is nothing. stop looking at this like airline pilots and start looking at it like business people. Indy gets something, chicago gets something, george gets something. the employees get something, but not much.

...unless someone comes in and offers $200 million in cash...

george wants something from this and at first glance (we'll know more by the 10th) he doesn't get anything with the other "offers".

stay tuned.

Assuming debt is nothing ? I'm not sure about that. You go into bankruptcy cause you cant pay your debt. Assuming debt is everything. It ensures that the creditors get paid which is what the judge is responsible for. This deal is largely up to creditors. George has no say at this point. The judge is responsible for taking the deal that is in the best interest of the creditors. It would make sense that the creditors would want the best deal that assures them of getting the money owed to them. Airtran among others want gates. Amwest wants the whole ball of wax employees and all. In that deal everyone is happy except for George and his friends. And who got ATA into trouble in the first place ?? Does anyone think the half hearted attempt at an Indy hub is actually gonna work. He has tons of creditors and no money. Do creditors have faith in that plan ? I dont know but I doubt it. I would imagine they have a lot more faith in an Amwest merger than a torn up retreat to Indy where ATA has always said the customer base is not there. What changed now ? Either way December will be an interesting month. Best of luck to all involved.

 

[TWA Dude]

As I've written before, the expression "career expectations" is meaningless. It's just an excuse for one pilot group to take advantage of another. I know ATA is in Chap 11 but I don't believe that should be a weapon used against them. Apparently I'm in the minority here which was confirmed by a short conversation with a union rep in the crew room. In other words, my opinion probably won't matter. To my ATA colleagues, if a merger (acquisition, or whatever, since it doesn't matter) with AWA goes down you'd do well to expect the worst and hope for the best. I also pray that my AWA colleagues (not referring to anyone posting here) show y'all more respect that what APA showed TWA.

 

[ATA73Pilot]

As I've written before, the expression "career expectations" is meaningless. It's just an excuse for one pilot group to take advantage of another. I know ATA is in Chap 11 but I don't believe that should be a weapon used against them. Apparently I'm in the minority here which was confirmed by a short conversation with a union rep in the crew room. In other words, my opinion probably won't matter. To my ATA colleagues, if a merger (acquisition, or whatever, since it doesn't matter) with AWA goes down you'd do well to expect the worst and hope for the best. I also pray that my AWA colleagues (not referring to anyone posting here) show y'all more respect that what APA showed TWA.

Let me be the first one to buy you a beer on some future overnight. It takes someone who has experienced this nasty process firsthand to bring a little insight to the process.

Everyone here is too busy trying to protect what they feel is theirs. I have been through one merger (ALPA Regionals) in my past and it was done mostly through DOH and the ALPA policy stipulations. The majority of pilots we're OK with that and all of our "career expectations" remaind essentially intact.

My belief all along is that any merger of two ALPA airlines should be conducted so as to produce a seniority list that mainains your relative position intact.

ie. If I was in the 20% on the Captain's list before, then I maintained that same precentage relative to the new list.

As such your "Career Expectations" and your current QOL remain intact.