"The New ATA"

[Wiskey Driver]

Sorry but I don't buy the analogy. A no cash deal will essentially merge our company into yours. Personally I think it'll be good for both sides in the end as it will be a formidable LCC. No I am not owed anything but under the above scenario, yes, I expect to get more than a staple job. Part of the reason I believe that way is because most of what I've heard from AWA pilots has been positive and leaves me optimistic for a fair and equitable deal.

Also -- is it possible that "resident in Chicago" is legal speak for based in Chicago ??

I have sifted through 4 pages of what is essentially my Dik is bigger than your Dik!!! (Airtran vs AWA) this is non sense. What happens to the employees comes LAST in this fight. First and formost, what will be considered are those that have the most to lose and folks that ain't pilots. The ones that have the most to lose are the creditors ie Boeing, ATSB, banks, fuel companies etc... Sure they would like to see you employed but if it comes down to you being employed vs someone assuming BIG debt. Do I really need to state the obvious???? We were asked here at AWA to send in feed back on what we would like to see out of this deal with regards to intergration. Now I speak for no one but myself but WHAT I HAVE BEEN HEARING is mostly staple'em. Without going into specifics, I don't fully agree with a full on staple not because one carrier owes them anything but because some won't be able to survive the start over process. I do feel that all the ATA f/o's should be placed on the bottom of our list for nothing more than to protect the career expectations of our current crews. In any case these are only wants and wishes and non of us on this forum will make any difference to the creditor, they are the BIG PICTURE.

My prayers are with my brothers and sisters of ATA and I hope this thing works out some kinda way with minimal adverse effect!!

WD.

 

[ATA73Pilot]

...but WHAT I HAVE BEEN HEARING is mostly staple'em.

I do feel that all the ATA f/o's should be placed on the bottom of our list for nothing more than to protect the career expectations of our current crews.
WD.

I keep hearing that Disney Lion King song playing in the background..."Can You Feel The Love Tonight?!"

Just curious why you feel our Captains are deserving of an integrated option while you relegate all the FO's to the bottom in a staple situation?

Are FO's career expectations somehow less important than our Captains?

 

[CaptSeth]

I wouldn't get too upset about the whole thing. There's enough case law and precedent to go around should it come down to it.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

I keep hearing that Disney Lion King song playing in the background..."Can You Feel The Love Tonight?!"

Just curious why you feel our Captains are deserving of an integrated option while you relegate all the FO's to the bottom in a staple situation?

Are FO's career expectations somehow less important than our Captains?

Since you asked and only for that reason will I answer. I said I would not get into the full details but I was no implying that all your captains get intergrated only a percentage!!! You see, if you were to look at this from a career expectation stand point, just what is your career expectation as of today??? Not too good is it? So therefore why should the members of this carrier who's expectation are far better be penalized? Is this fair? I don't really have the answer to that and I sure no one really does, most will just speak out about what they want and not reality.

WD.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

I wouldn't get too upset about the whole thing. There's enough case law and precedent to go around should it come down to it.

CaptSeth,

You may in fact be correct on that point, but your point also changes the game a little. That comment brings another dog to this fight, which in turn brings yet another. Those two are attorneys and money!!! You see good lawyers always earn their keep by destroying precedents and at this point does ATA have the financial resources or should I say the union to fight a battle such as this and if so what would really be the overall gain???

WD.

 

[CaptSeth]

The answers are yes, and obviously, otherwise we wouldn't have gotten the contract that we enjoy. As to the third, not as much if there will be a legal battle, so it behooves everyone involved that cool heads should prevail, else scumsucking attorneys will get too much money, again.

Of course, there's no deal on the table yet anyway, so we may be arguing about nothing. I'll get back to you on Dec. 16 though.

As far as the APA style career-expectations argument, my career expectations are just fine with the current deal on the table, so, no, I don't need to be merged with AWA to be happy. It will just be a better deal for everyone. What are your career expectations? As of right now, you'll be doing layovers in CVG for the rest of your natural life. If you are lucky, and there is an equitable merger with ATA, you might get to do some international and Hawaii - something good to look forward to.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

As far as the APA style career-expectations argument, my career expectations are just fine with the current deal on the table, so, no, I don't need to be merged with AWA to be happy. It will just be a better deal for everyone. What are your career expectations? As of right now, you'll be doing layovers in CVG for the rest of your natural life. If you are lucky, and there is an equitable merger with ATA, you might get to do some international and Hawaii - something good to look forward to.

I meant no dis-respect with the career expectation comment, mine was merely to point out the obvious that ATA is in deep trouble thus career expectations with them are poor and without some sort of bail out, you may be looking at chap 7 soon. Now for your next point yeah CVG layovers we do but keep in mind that we ain't regional carrier and we do trips to three different countries. Mexico, Canada and my favorite Costa Rica!!!! We have already announced Hawaii for next spring so really what other destination would you bring??

WD.

 

[Boogenagen]

The AWA deal is the only one that makes any sense. It allows ATA to continue business as usual without any major changes or disruptions. One would think that would be most favorable to the creditors and judge. Who trusts ATA management to be able to run a sucessful operation out of Indy ? You gotta be kidding. I think George just took the Airtran deal to keep the company running through bankruptcy. Airtran will get there 3 mil. deal breaker fee and AWA ATA will merge.

As far as pilot integration who knows. I dont think any ATA captains will lose there seats. ATA makes AWA a much stronger more formidable operation. The employees of ATA are a big part of the deal. If I recall AWA has had financial problems in the past. They at current are not that stong. Without ATA who knows what the future holds for them, they need ATA and as such ATA should get there due credit. They both need each other now. Pilots wont make the decision of integration anyway. It will no doubt be mediated. All the pilots have to do is live with the decision. Both pilot groups need eachother more than they think in todays economy. Of course I could be dead wrong. Either way we will see soon.

 

[CaptSeth]

We have a signed deal with Airtran, unfortunately the bottom half of our list will be furloughed and there will be downgrades for a while, however we would retain our Hawaii, Military charter (I just got back from Europe and points east), and IND hub, along with the MDW Mexico and Caribbean flying. I was under the impression that AWA's 757 inflight shutdown rate will preclude ETOPS until 2006, but perhaps there's another code share deal in the works.

 

[Cactus73]

Now for your next point yeah CVG layovers we do
WD.

As for as a I know we don't serve CVG. I think it would make a great market for us from PHX and LAS, but what do I know?

We have a signed deal with Airtran, unfortunately the bottom half of our list will be furloughed and there will be downgrades for a while, however we would retain our Hawaii, Military charter (I just got back from Europe and points east), and IND hub, along with the MDW Mexico and Caribbean flying. I was under the impression that AWA's 757 inflight shutdown rate will preclude ETOPS until 2006, but perhaps there's another code share deal in the works.

Your signed deal with Airtran doesn't mean much. Well actually, it is worth almost $3 million to ATA, but other than that it is not really a deal.

The court is the only one that can approve deals. The court will decide which deal gets signed. As I stated earlier, ATA management is pushing the AAI deal because it is what is in their best interest. They want to keep their jobs and their egos intact. Merging with AWA or anyone else will mean they are all out of jobs. They are putting out press releases to make everyone think that this is a done deal. Maybe they think their spin will influence the court? Who knows?

As for our 757 shutdown rate...I think you hit the nail on the head. This is more reason for AWA to push for a merger. Though the A319's will also be part of the ETOPS program from what I understand (which isn't much).

I think talking about seniority integration is pointless. We have little control over it and our opinions will just get people all worked up for no reason.

I'm having enough heart-ache right now watching the Cardinals get slaughtered by Carolina.