The NetJets Scab list threat...

[El Chupacabra]

You worry too much. SC will take years. A lot of us old farts will be retired before it would be done.

When this CBA is done, we will have Fly From home and everything else we want in it. If the company really loves you they will ask us to drop the SC.

Now when I have everything I want in a CBA and all management asks is that we driop that suit, how many people do you think will be willing to vote NO on the contract just so we can pursue a lawsuit that will take yrs to settle and not put another nickel in my bank account. And yes bring in possibly hundreds of anti-union persons into the seniority list?

Think about it. The only way you are going on our list is if WoodBridge wants it.

 

[realityman]

G4Dude,


Wow, I seem to have hit a nerve. Sorry 'bout that. Keep in mind that I, personally, don't care much for this single-carrier thing. We could potentially be getting some very cool planes in the future, and I don't care to have my seniority number pushed back even one spot. As I said before, I generally have the utmost respect for you folks at NJI. I kind of wonder how you arrived at the fact that you're more productive than us. Gee, was it something MANAGEMENT told you? Or do you have actual figures. No sarcasm, honest questions.

You're right, I also generally don't trust Teamsters much, especially after the way our last local treated us. Lied to us? You bet! Mislead us? Yessir! Mismanaged our money? Spot on again! Failed to communicate pretty much anything to us? Uh-huh! But things are different now. Our previous local handled us, our F/A's, mechanics, and a whole buncha truckers. The new local, who will handle our money, negotiations, contract compliance, and all the other issues of our union, is comprised solely of NJA pilots whose decisions will not only impact the rank and file, but themselves as well, and is dedicated only to the pilots. They've FINALLY shown leadership, and have been very upfront with us on everything. So far we have no reason NOT to trust them. For the first time in a long time I'm optimistic. And Teamsters in general will not be involved much with our local.

Judging by your tone I doubt I'm going to alter your thinking about unions. And I don't know what to tell you about the single-carrier filing. We certainly have mixed feelings about it over here. Also, I've heard PLENTY of complaints from you guys too. It isn't all roses and rainbows on your side either. I also wonder how it is that you speak for the ENTIRE pilot group at NJI when you say, "We, at NJI HATE unions!". I certainly don't claim to speak for anyone but myself on this board. Are you sure that EVERY pilot over there detests unions like that? Or is it more of a knee-jerk reaction to this single-carrier thing?
At any rate, as a reasonable person, surely you don't think $37K/year is a good, or even partially fair salary, for a captain on any jet, do you? You can claim all you want that it's the union's fault, but I beg to differ. If the company came to us (before this whole nasty business began) and had offered us a much better pay scale, all we'd have to do is vote on it. If the membership wants it, it's done. So it's ALWAYS been up to the company to treat us right. They certainly don't have to wait on our union. But they haven't, have they? It seems to me that management (the same folks that run your company too) has never had any intention of playing fair. If they treated us the same as you guys from the beginning, there's probably a good chance we wouldn't even have a union today.

Ahh, but what's done is done. The wheels are in motion, and I don't intend on standing in front of this truck! What concerns me most about these message boards, is that these feelings may carry over into the real world. I really don't want to feel uncomfortable riding in the FBO van with you guys, or meeting in the FBO.

Enough. Gonna sleep on it.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Hey realityman-

You have a PM.

PFP

 

[G4dude]

G4Dude,


Wow, I seem to have hit a nerve. Sorry 'bout that. Keep in mind that I, personally, don't care much for this single-carrier thing. We could potentially be getting some very cool planes in the future, and I don't care to have my seniority number pushed back even one spot. As I said before, I generally have the utmost respect for you folks at NJI. I kind of wonder how you arrived at the fact that you're more productive than us. Gee, was it something MANAGEMENT told you? Or do you have actual figures. No sarcasm, honest questions.

You're right, I also generally don't trust Teamsters much, especially after the way our last local treated us. Lied to us? You bet! Mislead us? Yessir! Mismanaged our money? Spot on again! Failed to communicate pretty much anything to us? Uh-huh! But things are different now. Our previous local handled us, our F/A's, mechanics, and a whole buncha truckers. The new local, who will handle our money, negotiations, contract compliance, and all the other issues of our union, is comprised solely of NJA pilots whose decisions will not only impact the rank and file, but themselves as well, and is dedicated only to the pilots. They've FINALLY shown leadership, and have been very upfront with us on everything. So far we have no reason NOT to trust them. For the first time in a long time I'm optimistic. And Teamsters in general will not be involved much with our local.

Judging by your tone I doubt I'm going to alter your thinking about unions. And I don't know what to tell you about the single-carrier filing. We certainly have mixed feelings about it over here. Also, I've heard PLENTY of complaints from you guys too. It isn't all roses and rainbows on your side either. I also wonder how it is that you speak for the ENTIRE pilot group at NJI when you say, "We, at NJI HATE unions!". I certainly don't claim to speak for anyone but myself on this board. Are you sure that EVERY pilot over there detests unions like that? Or is it more of a knee-jerk reaction to this single-carrier thing?
At any rate, as a reasonable person, surely you don't think $37K/year is a good, or even partially fair salary, for a captain on any jet, do you? You can claim all you want that it's the union's fault, but I beg to differ. If the company came to us (before this whole nasty business began) and had offered us a much better pay scale, all we'd have to do is vote on it. If the membership wants it, it's done. So it's ALWAYS been up to the company to treat us right. They certainly don't have to wait on our union. But they haven't, have they? It seems to me that management (the same folks that run your company too) has never had any intention of playing fair. If they treated us the same as you guys from the beginning, there's probably a good chance we wouldn't even have a union today.

Ahh, but what's done is done. The wheels are in motion, and I don't intend on standing in front of this truck! What concerns me most about these message boards, is that these feelings may carry over into the real world. I really don't want to feel uncomfortable riding in the FBO van with you guys, or meeting in the FBO.

Enough. Gonna sleep on it.

It is because of these undesirable working conditions and pay that I oppose the union. The union is why you have these problems. The union is not the answer, and the proof is that the same management treats us very well, because we have a good attitude and do NOT belong to a union. Most of us at NJI feel you would be treated the same way as we are if you dump the Teamsters.
By the way, we discuss these issues all the time in the cockpit, and so far in 5 years I have found two pilots, and heard about one more, who have positive feelings about the union, and we all are hoping for good things for you guys. I talk a lot with NJA folks on the road, and enjoy the discussions very much. Your pay is awful, and we hope things get much better. With the Teamsters keeping everything adversarial, we don't see good things happening, however. Good luck, though.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Man G4!!!!!! You took a big gulp of that Kool-Aid....... As long as NJA is Unionized you folks are going to be treated the way you are.....just so that management can stick it us.

I am in 100% suporrt of this current MEC because they are truely trying to make this place the best fractional in the industry.

Flying the G-IV or V you guys should be making a heck of alot more money for what you do..... I am not happy with my working conditions and my Union will speak for me and negotiate on my behalf. Who can you turn to when you want more money than what management is willing to pay?

As far as most of the NJI folks thinking we at NJA would be treated better if we dump the Teamsters....that's for that advise...I'll keep that in mind....

Did you ever think that if WE drop the Teamsters our same management would treat YOU worse since there is no longer the treat of Teamsters being on the property.

You must admit that you are indirectly benefitted by Local 1108. Being the poster boys for good NJ employees has its benefits...enjoy them. The single carrier suit will go ahead and the courts will decide. If it is ruled that we are one carrier then a vote for representation must tke place....If ruled that we are NOT one carrier then I guess management has no reason to worry about organizing on the NJI side......I wonder if things will change over there then?

Only time will tell.....

 

[buttercup]

It is because of these undesirable working conditions and pay that I oppose the union. The union is why you have these problems. The union is not the answer, and the proof is that the same management treats us very well, because we have a good attitude and do NOT belong to a union. Most of us at NJI feel you would be treated the same way as we are if you dump the Teamsters.
By the way, we discuss these issues all the time in the cockpit, and so far in 5 years I have found two pilots, and heard about one more, who have positive feelings about the union, and we all are hoping for good things for you guys. I talk a lot with NJA folks on the road, and enjoy the discussions very much. Your pay is awful, and we hope things get much better. With the Teamsters keeping everything adversarial, we don't see good things happening, however. Good luck, though.

If there was no union at Netjets the schedule would slowly become 6 on, 3 off, and the abysmmal pay would remain. If you have a place like Citation Shares or Jetblue where the management has character and leads by example then maybe not having a union is more acceptable. I can assure you that NJA isn't one of those places.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Yes and we would be violating the 135 Rest and Duty rules like almost every other non scheduled 135 operator.

 

[Hogprint]

G-4,
The former MEC was by no means "adversarial". They caved to managment on every issue, giving away huge bargaining chips for over three years.

SU has accomplished more in five months than the fab five did in five years. Yes, they have drawn lines in the sand, but it is the company that has to meet us half way. Up to this point they have not shown they are willing to do that. They have expected us to LOA issues like the former regime did on a continual basis.

It's not like we are asking for the moon. Just a wage commensurate with the industry. As mentioned in a previous post, are the G's being paid industry average? It sure sounds like you are being treated very well on the road. Maybe it's easier to overlook pay when QOL issues outweigh pay?

 

[Jolimon]

Look I work at a non unionized fractional. It is not perfect but we have a voice and it is responded to. I can call upper management on any given day and voice my opinion. It has always been responded to. The Teamsters have made several attempts to unionize us. They have failed to destroy our company. I bump into NetJet pilots on a dailly basis and non have anything nice to say about the Teamsters. Please be careful the proponents on this chat room are the union reps who want your dues.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Jolimon....if you work for a small outfit you have the option of going to upper management and hash things out....It used to be like that here at NJA years ago...even with the Union on the property. With 2100 pilots spread throughout the country flying for a multi-billion dolar empire...Berkshire Hathaway...you need some teeth to get things done...

Unfortunately our former MEC had their teeth knoocked out by management now we have some real fighting blood in there representing us....and all fractional for that matter. I've heard so many times by the other leaing fraction pilots on how their pay will go up once NJA gets a raise..... they are watching this very closely as well....

Wait until the contract is signed before you condemn our Union.....who knows, maybe after if comes out you may want to put an application in.

And before you say it....I am NOT a Union rep... I am represented by a Union...Loal 1108.