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The NetJets Scab list threat...

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Jolimon,

I think El is tugg'n your chain a bit.

When I was hired on five years ago, you saw all the other Fracs in the FBO, everyone greeted one another. It was like we knew we were all in the same boat. We were not at the majors, maybe building time to go, but point was everyone compared notes and asked how things were coming with contracts or whatever.

It doesn't seem that way anymore. I think we all are probably more alike than not, and some of us will probably be on the same team when this industry shakes out and realigns.

Fly safe out there boys!
 
Jolimon said:
Look I work at a non unionized fractional. It is not perfect but we have a voice and it is responded to. I can call upper management on any given day and voice my opinion. It has always been responded to. The Teamsters have made several attempts to unionize us. They have failed to destroy our company. I bump into NetJet pilots on a dailly basis and non have anything nice to say about the Teamsters. Please be careful the proponents on this chat room are the union reps who want your dues.

Give me one example of your "voice" being heard by management.

Ham salad in your crew lunches doesn't qualify.
 
We asked our management to increase our day rate for overtime. We are now happy with the pay we receive if we work past our 7 days on. This happened within 1 month of our request. We were able as a pilot group to talk to the CEO directly. I can't say it will always be like this but it has been so far.
 
Jolimon said:
We asked our management to increase our day rate for overtime. We are now happy with the pay we receive if we work past our 7 days on. This happened within 1 month of our request. We were able as a pilot group to talk to the CEO directly. I can't say it will always be like this but it has been so far.

Let me comment in the same tone that you have used to alienate the NJA crowd.

So.....already you are understaffed ! Maybe the honeymoon is over ?
With union representation, and a contract in place, these issues would have already been addressed.
Goes without saying that employee morale must really suck, what with a pilot shortage and forced overtime.

Just because you are disgruntled with your lot in life, don't whine to the rest of your industry brothers.
We have been smart enough over "here", to avert these problems through collective bargaining.
Too bad you are so naive. And stupid.

BTW, hope you never run afoul of management, and get canned without any recourse. If you do, you have no one to blame but yourself, for not having the forsight to hire on with "our perfect organization".

Don't know how all this sounded to you Jolimon, but if obnoxious doesn't come to mind, then you have missed my point.

Cheers.
 
I've got a question. NJI obviously is treated right, and sees no need for a union, but NJ very much needs one, as management is royally f--king the pilot group over. My question is, how did the two get to be so different? Why is NJI paid well and treated right, and NJ isn't? What happened? Didn't NJ used to be a fairly good paying, decent job? How did it get to be so bad?

Someone please explain this to a non-NJ guy.
 
Allow me to comment on several posts at once.





I also wonder how it is that you speak for the ENTIRE pilot group at NJI when you say, "We, at NJI HATE unions!". I certainly don't claim to speak for anyone but myself on this board. Are you sure that EVERY pilot over there detests unions like that? Or is it more of a knee-jerk reaction to this single-carrier thing?



Once again, we speak for ourselves, as individuals; and I stringently adhere to the non-union views of my colleague. I can unequivocally say there is no foreseeable situation that would ever lead the NJI pilots to unionize. We are a very content and happy group of professional pilots.



Now when I have everything I want in a CBA and all management asks is that we drop that suit, how many people do you think will be willing to vote NO on the contract just so we can pursue a lawsuit that will take yrs to settle and not put another nickel in my bank account. And yes bring in possibly hundreds of anti-union persons into the seniority list?



And there in lies the smoking gun. I cannot believe you NJA pilots are so blatantly advertising the only reason your filing a single carrier lawsuit is for negotiating capital. You cannot say on one hand, “Oh I have nothing against NJI pilots personally” and then say on the other, “Screw em, if that lawsuit gets me what I want, I don’t care if we wreck their deal.” And this is why your support among the aviation community is severely lack-luster. No one respects a person who uses others for personal gain.



Did you ever think that if WE drop the Teamsters our same management would treat YOU worse since there is no longer the treat of Teamsters being on the property.



You obviously have forgotten or refuse to acknowledge why NJI was started in the first place. Furthermore, there is no threat of the Teamsters ever being on my property as long as the pilots here now, stay here. And if you haven’t heard, we don’t lose pilots by the hundreds year after year. For some reason they stay.



If you have a place like Citation Shares or Jetblue where the management has character and leads by example then maybe not having a union is more acceptable.




Insert: “Net Jets International” in above statement. My management team is second to none.


How could a group of fractional pilots not stay in or near TEB? That is like saying strippers do not smoke.



Now that’s one of the funniest things I’ve heard in a while. Would you like an interview with NJI, we hire people with character and a sense of humor.
 
Now when I have everything I want in a CBA and all management asks is that we drop that suit, how many people do you think will be willing to vote NO on the contract just so we can pursue a lawsuit that will take yrs to settle and not put another nickel in my bank account. And yes bring in possibly hundreds of anti-union persons into the seniority list?




And there in lies the smoking gun. I cannot believe you NJA pilots are so blatantly advertising the only reason your filing a single carrier lawsuit is for negotiating capital. You cannot say on one hand, “Oh I have nothing against NJI pilots personally” and then say on the other, “Screw em, if that lawsuit gets me what I want, I don’t care if we wreck their deal.” And this is why your support among the aviation community is severely lack-luster. No one respects a person who uses others for personal gain.






There are two sides to every lawsuit. The reason management denies the FFH from us that they give to other parts of the company is for BARGAINING CAPITAL. 5 years ago we reached an agreement for this benefit which you have been enjoying. One man vetoed it while saying, "Why should I give them that now when contract negotiations will begin in a few months. I will use it as a bargaining chip."


This while allowing FFH on your side of the company.... A side which would not exist if we had not allowed an exception to Scope. We trusted them to treat all fairly. Trust apparently misplaced.

This thing they deny us while advertising in trade publications this benefit for other parts of the company. You see it is management that is using other people for gain.
 
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Suen1843 says: Leaving the single-carrier issue aside, you should be supporting these pilots. Yes..they are way underpaid. Yes...they didn't get a very good T/A late last year. Yess....on and on. But, they are trying to do something about it. Take away the radical voices of NJA (and they are very few but very vocal) and you have a great bunch of guys who just want to make a decent living while doing something we all love to do...fly the airplanes

___________________________________________________________________
A very good post, 1843. However, the reason I am against the union is BECAUSE I support the pilots. I feel the union has been leading the pilots to ruin. Look at what they have done so far, after how many years? In other words, the union is the wrong answer to the right question.
 
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Wolfpack,

Can you give us some gouge on what talk is going around the water cooler if the two sides are brought together?

I know it is not a popular idea at NJI, but looking into the crystal ball, where do you think it is headed?
 
I give it six months the whole shooting match will be unionised. I don't think it will go full-merged seniority though.
 
Hogprint said:
Wolfpack,

Can you give us some gouge on what talk is going around the water cooler if the two sides are brought together?

I know it is not a popular idea at NJI, but looking into the crystal ball, where do you think it is headed?

Hog,



I would be fueling the rumor mill if I said one thing or the other. Quite honestly, your situation is seldom discussed at our property. Our “water cooler” talks seem to revolve around old war stories, wife/kids stories, and the typical “Where’s dinner tonight?”



There are plenty of quality, hard working pilots at NJA who deserve an honest days pay, and we all know that. However, you seem to have a very radical group that is bent on destruction at any cost; your job and mine as well. And that is what bothers me. What you’re seeing here on these boards from our pilots are less than supportive posts because this SCAB issue has hit a nerve with several of our pilots, myself included. You cannot go around calling people scabs, its slander in the simplest terms. NJI pilots didn’t start their careers yesterday, and many have like one said, “Been there and done that.” And it is these pilots who should be respected and learned from, not insulted and inflamed with comments that have no legal backing.



There is one thing in life I’ve learned along the way, and it applies to the aviation world as well; there is a pecking order within any organization. You have to learn to accept it. I dealt with it as regional jet pilot for years, and when I had my experience and time I dropped them like a hot potato. That’s the way it is, and always will be. Strikes, mergers, furloughs will never change it.



As I said 98% of your guys and gals are top notch, it’s the 2% that are ruining it for the rest. I hope nothing but the best for NJA pilots, and all pilots for that matter. But pilots need to respect other pilots who have earned through experience the right to have pay and benefits commensurate with their employment. Your leadership would be wise to put a muzzle on the radicals and go about doing their business quietly. I’ve never heard any NJI pilot say NJA pilots didn’t deserve to be treated fairly, only they need to play fair. Lawsuits and SCAB lists don’t constitute fair play in my book.



Best Regards…
 
Thanks for the insight Wolfpack. In my heart of hearts I always thought that this would be settled before self help, but now I'm not so sure.

I agree there is much confusion on this whole Scab issue. Since this will be the first self help on a fractional operator (that I know of, and if it comes to that) we are breaking new ground. I don't know if it can be compared to Airlines that went through this in the past. There are so many other factors in the equation with this type of operation.

My hope is that it can be settled to everyones satisfaction. Good luck and fly safe,

H
 

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