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The Jobs Crisis & the GOP

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ATLdood

I digress. How do you expect an unemployed individual to pay for at the least 2 years of education and support his/her family? How do you propose that once that individual gains the necessary skills he/she compete with others who have the skills and experience? The world is not as simple as you would like it to be.

Well, let me think, MAYBE THE SAME WAY EVERONE ELSE DOES IT!Get a job, any job and go to school.

I got a degree on my own by working and paying for school. I was not wealthy, and not LAZY. And yes I was supporting a family. :mad:
 
Timebuilder -

You have yet to prove how we are "better off with the tax cuts" that "Bush gave us." I'm still waiting on that one. Dot-com bust definitely skewered us, but our prez's fiscal policies are not exactly kickin' a$$. Where are those 1.5 million (or whatever) jobs that Bush was going to help create when he touted his tax plan...or his next tax plan...or his next one...or his future one? Nope. Not here yet. Didn't think so.

Do you HONESTLY have a lower tax burden today when everything is figured in? I'm talkin' healthcare, car and homeowners' insurance, state and local tax. I'm guessing likely not. Yeah, the feds take less cash, but you're no better off. Not to mention that the deficits we run now are just gonna have to be paid off later. We're not going to be running a net positive here. It all comes back in the end. So, do we cut our income now and let the interest build or do we pay off debts and then cut up the credit cards? You tell me. You seem to be the expert here. However, my guess is that you and Sean Hannity are good buds. You apparently drink at the same establishment.

Bush and his buddies are slowly eating away at your rights not only as a citizen, but as a worker. So, when you no longer have bargaining rights without jumping through 47 new hoops and your wages get unilaterally cut by 20%, tell me how that tax cut is treatin' ya. That's what supporting corporatism will get you.

Oh, and there is a direct correlation between education and income. The Department of Labor itself says this. Read up (yup, more facts for the feeble-minded here - maybe some of these Bush lovers will actually READ what I put out there and realize that Bush's OWN GOVERNMENT SUPPLIES THIS DATA):

"Generally speaking, jobs that require high levels of education and skill pay higher wages than jobs that require few skills and little education. Statistics from the Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) validate this viewpoint by revealing that the unemployment rate among people who have a professional degree is significantly lower than that of people who have a high school diploma or less than a complete high school education. In addition, earnings increase significantly as a worker's degree of education rises." -

http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/educational.htm

So, for you to sit here and tell me that education has nothing to do with compensation and has everything to do with motivation is contrary to all empirical data collected by our own government. I simply do not understand this mentality.

Supply-siders. 20 years later and they still haven't figured it out.
 
ATL2CDG,

"How do you expect an unemployed individual to pay for at the least 2 years of education and support his/her family?"

Easy. Don't have a family until you are educated enough or skilled enough to adequately support them. Oh sorry, that would require discipline and responsibility.

How to pay for college?

1. Work hard enough in high school to merit some scholarships and/or grants. Unfortunately, that also requires discipline, motivation and responsibility.

2. Grades not good enough for scholarships? Student loans.

3. Don't want to borrow the money? Enlist for 4 years and earn the GI Bill benefits. A side benefit of this is that you also could gain experience in a marketable skill.

4. Don't like the military? Work menial jobs and pay your way through college.

Shall I continue? The point is that getting an education is COMPLETELY under the control of the person seeking it. There is no excuse other than a lack of application. It takes effort because it's worth it.

"How do you propose that once that individual gains the necessary skills he/she compete with others who have the skills and experience?"

Same way every body else does. You start at the bottom and work your way up. Your problem is you have the cart before the horse. Get an education, get some skills and experience, land a good job and THEN start a family.

Just because some young stud can't keep his crank in his pants and knocks up some SuzyQ isn't GWB's fault. It d@mn sure ain't my problem. Loverboy created the problem, he can fix it and I'm sick of hearing about how it's everybody else's fault that he can't catch a break. If he was thinking with the big head and not the little one he wouldn't have a problem.
 
Caveman et al.:

Oh, well. We disagree. We obviously view the role of government differently.

I'm not going to convince you and you're not going to convince me; let's just admit it and move on.

It was fun while it lasted.

TysV
 
The Montgomery GI Bill is huge - my package came to $36,000 and that's after you leave active duty. While on active duty, depending on the branch of the service you are in, you can receive up to 100% of your tuition paid for.

Tuition itself? The local junior college here is about $1200 semester, the local university is about $2500 per semester, and grad school maybe $4000 per semester.

There are very few reasons that an American can not get a college education. Whether or not they are too lazy is another story.
 
You have yet to prove how we are "better off with the tax cuts" that "Bush gave us." I'm still waiting on that one.

You pose an interesting challenge.

Can I prove to you that millions of Americans would have polio if it were not for the Salk vaccine? No, I can't "prove" that one, either. It would required an alternate timeline to show you exactly what would have happened without the tax cuts. I can point you toward economists so you can see what they say, and I can ask you to construct a mental hypothesis based upon what those economists say, but that's about it.

In other words, all it takes is a reasonable person who has a basic command of economics to understand the importance odf the tax cuts, particularly the tax cuts given to those who traditionally pay the MOST taxes in America: the so-called "rich."



Dot-com bust definitely skewered us, but our prez's fiscal policies are not exactly kickin' a$$.

No challenger to the president has articulated what should have been done in place of the "Bush policies". I don't expect I will ever hear what these "superior" ideas might have been. I strongly suspect that the resulting depression from refusing to cut taxes might have led to even greater reliance on government programs, higher taxes, and a stalled economy. I am old enough to remember the Carter years.



Where are those 1.5 million (or whatever) jobs that Bush was going to help create when he touted his tax plan...or his next tax plan...or his next one...or his future one? Nope. Not here yet. Didn't think so.

Ah, I see. You're sticking wirth the idea that a president "creates" jobs. He can only exert just so much influence, no matter what party affiliation he has. I wasn't aware that he gave some kind of time line for these jobs, so you can inform me, and I'll then know.



Do you HONESTLY have a lower tax burden today when everything is figured in? I'm talkin' healthcare, car and homeowners' insurance, state and local tax. I'm guessing likely not. Yeah, the feds take less cash, but you're no better off.

I am much better off, and sleep much better, thank you. Advertising is up. My calls have tripled in the past month. I expect my fortunes to mirror the fortunes of the economy. I also believe that the financial markets are desperate that we don't get another tax and spend guy who will pacify the UN and terrorists to the detriment of our national sovereignty and security. Such a person would no doubt put up trade barriers that would essentially get us kicked out of many foreign markets, leaving European countries to slip into the gap.



Bush and his buddies are slowly eating away at your rights not only as a citizen, but as a worker. So, when you no longer have bargaining rights without jumping through 47 new hoops and your wages get unilaterally cut by 20%, tell me how that tax cut is treatin' ya. That's what supporting corporatism will get you.

Bargaining rights? What bargaining rights?

Airlines are forming new non-union carriers, SAG and AFTRA costs are going up while jobs for that segment are going down. Union membership is dropping steadily in the US. In fifty years, there will be government employee unions and a few others. SAG will have gobbled up AFTRA by then, but most movies will not be SAG work, they will be made overseas.

What bargaining rights do I now have that I don't know about?



Oh, and there is a direct correlation between education and income. The Department of Labor itself says this. Read up (yup, more facts for the feeble-minded here -

I never said that you were feeble minded.

While there is a correlation between education and income, we still regularly seem to create entire companies led by undereducated people. It is the creativity and motivation of such folks, who would otherwise have degrees, that make this correlation one that is not chisled in stone. It is a generalization more than anything else. Everyone should be encouraged to become better educated. There are entire libraries of books that can more than compensate for college. The structure of the educational elite tends to put up roadblocks in this area, since that means less money for them. That's what the CLEP program is for.



Supply-siders. 20 years later and they still haven't figured it out.

Supply is where things come from, where wealth is created.

I'm surprised that some folks haven't figured out that the Reagan tax cuts proved, beyond any doubt at all, that as tax rates were lowered, revenue to the treasury went UP. Tax cuts lead to prosperity, raising all boats with a rising tide.

Indeed "twenty years later, and they still haven't figured it out."

You said a mouthful.
 
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College education, et.al

While I realize college education in today's US society is the way the game is played, I still question its value (this coming from someone who has a Master's degree...albeit from Kentucky). Think the market is saturated with college degreed people for jobs that may not necessarily need a college degree. Granted it gets your foot in the door but I question its real/tangible value. Oh well, keeps the liberal professors employed.
For those of you who think the economy is just fine. I keep reading articles from certain conservatives who think we are going down the wrong path. Saw a good article in Worldnetdaily.com today. If the author's facts are correct, we'll be like the legacy airlines within the next twenty years. While I would never support Kerry (although I did receive a nice letter from him and Teddy Kennedy the other day wanting money - I didn't have any money but I did send them some coupons to Pizza Hut), I don't think Bush is any savior. Pick your poison.
 
I will address only the article that the origional poster linked to.

The article by Patrick Buchannan states that the GOP is worried because the current economic rebound may be in trouble because jobs are not being created fast enough to sustain the recovery. The GNP of the US is approximately 66% consumer spending and therefore jobs play directly into the equation of sustainable growth.

The current free trade agenda is based on the work of a 17th century economist, David Ricardo, and called "comparitive advantage", which holds that countries should not try to do or produce all things if others can do it more efficiently. By concentrating on what a country can do best, and better than others, overall employment and the economy will improve and be stronger in the long run.

This economic theory is under attack by some very well published and knowledgeable people. This weeks Business Week Magazine has a commentary by Paul Craig Roberts, former assistant Treasury Secratary to the Regan administration. Mr Roberts states that the theory of comparative advantage has several gross errors in todays outsourcing of jobs.
"For comparative advantage to work, a country's labor, capital, and technology must not move offshore." Comparative advantage is about labor rates using existing capital. "If technology and other factors move offshore than comparitive advantage changes to absolute advantage." This is labor arbitrage only.

Productivity is about all the infrastructur, education, and capital markets that make up an economy. Allowing unlimited transfer off jobs and total industries is akin to robbing the US taxpayer of the accumulated wealth of the society that enabled the technology in the first place.

"Until recently, first world economies retained their capital, labor and technology." "Foreign investment occoured, but it worked differently from outsourcing in that it was primarily focused on the first world and used to gain comparitive advantage in shipping costs, tarriffs and quotas. "

"Today acquired knowledge is the basis for most tradable goods and services, making the Ricardian assumptions unrealistic." "Indeed, it is not clear where there is a basis for comparative advantage when production rests on acquired knowledge. " The theory proposed by Alan Greespan and others may in fact hold no water and we are just seeing the hollowing out of America as far as quality employment goes.

This is not a purley political rabble rousing debate between conservative and big government types. Many economists and well educated professionals worry that with the huge execces of labor available in China and India ensures that American wages will fall faster than Asian wages will rise thus not allowing a growing export market for US goods. This leads to polarization of income distribution, loss of taxbase and a long term slide in American competiveness in the world markets.
 

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