The JetBlue ALPA drive has officially started.

[Flyer1015]

ALPA has helped erode this career right down the drain. There are no collective balls. Just pushovers and rollovers.

Spoke to an ALPA rep one time regarding a CLEAR and EGREGIOUS violation of our CBA, and guess what I was told. "Fly now, grieve later." Any union with balls would have said, "No, fark it! Do not fly now, it is illegal per the CBA!" Like I said, pushovers.

And as for the grievances, good luck hearing back from those. It'll take a looooong time (sometimes years) for anything to get done. Personally, I'd rather be at Skywest and not pay the 1.95%. Sure it's a gamble, but one I'd be willing to take. And yes, if JetBlue hired me, I'd be out the door in a heartbeat.

 

[Splert]

To be honest, no, it's not worth it. I've seen what's happened at our current airline with ALPA. Absolutely nothing, an old 1999 contract, and we are (yet again) on ICE from the NMB. Great. I look at Skywest, and what do you know, it's probably the best regional to work for in terms of QOL, pay.

You know that because you don't work there.

What happened to SkyWest health care plan?

Only a HDMP in 2012.

 

[jayme]

ALPA has helped erode this career right down the drain. There are no collective balls. Just pushovers and rollovers.

Spoke to an ALPA rep one time regarding a CLEAR and EGREGIOUS violation of our CBA, and guess what I was told. "Fly now, grieve later." Any union with balls would have said, "No, fark it! Do not fly now, it is illegal per the CBA!" Like I said, pushovers.

And as for the grievances, good luck hearing back from those. It'll take a looooong time (sometimes years) for anything to get done. Personally, I'd rather be at Skywest and not pay the 1.95%. Sure it's a gamble, but one I'd be willing to take. And yes, if JetBlue hired me, I'd be out the door in a heartbeat.

If your rep had suggested you disobey an order from managemen and you got fired, what would you have done? Let me guss, blame ALPA, right? Any union rep worth his salt would have said the same thing. "Obey now, grieve later" is the method recognized by law, all the way up to the supreme court, as the best way t deal with managment/labor conflicts.

 

[Flyer1015]

NO. If I got fired for that particular instance, I would have easily gotten my job back once grieved, including back pay, because what they were doing was just a downright violation of the CBA.

"Obey now, grieve later" is the method recognized by law, all the way up to the supreme court, as the best way t deal with managment/labor conflicts.

That's a one way street! I bet you if I ever violated a company policy, it wouldn't be "leave him be, fire him later." It would be instant termination. So why the hell should we "fly now, grieve later." It's the principal of the matter, it is all screwed up, and if ALPA had a collective set of balls, it would be different. Now that Moak is national ALPA head honcho, I expect more of a "bend over and take it" era. Our dues will subsidize Moak's huge salary and cars, all the while ALPA refusing to take a stand.

 

[Caveman]

NO. If I got fired for that particular instance, I would have easily gotten my job back once grieved, including back pay, because what they were doing was just a downright violation of the CBA.

That's a one way street! I bet you if I ever violated a company policy, it wouldn't be "leave him be, fire him later." It would be instant termination. So why the hell should we "fly now, grieve later." It's the principal of the matter, it is all screwed up, and if ALPA had a collective set of balls, it would be different. Now that Moak is national ALPA head honcho, I expect more of a "bend over and take it" era. Our dues will subsidize Moak's huge salary and cars, all the while ALPA refusing to take a stand.

Okay Capt Hard Ass, did you refuse the assignment? You're were in the right and would have easily gotten your job back, right? Didn't think so. You rolled over and did what you were told. Your ALPA rep gave you good advice. Unless it was illegal per FARs your only recourse is to fly now, grieve later. That's the way the game is played. At least with a union you had a grievance process and reps/lawyers on your side of the table.

 

[dicko]

You really don't know what you are talking about do you? ALPA had nothing to do with the Skywest deal and had no legal grounds to stop it. It was allowed by the worthless CBA written in 2001 that had so much poor language and loop holes that have been exploited continuously. That CBA was written by an inept in-house union known as the NPA.

You need to actually read what I wrote. It will make it easier for you to reply. I said nothing about SkyWest.

86 seat RJ's are specifically allowed in the TA'd Scope section written by ALPA. Not the NPA.

When this occurred we became the only ALPA airline to allow 86 seat jets in our Scope. This is how our union interpreted the pilots first polled priority. "Protect Scope".

You are however correct about one thing. The NPA were inept.

 

[rayford steele]

You need to actually read what I wrote. It will make it easier for you to reply. I said nothing about SkyWest.

86 seat RJ's are specifically allowed in the TA'd Scope section written by ALPA. Not the NPA.

When this occurred we became the only ALPA airline to allow 86 seat jets in our Scope. This is how our union interpreted the pilots first polled priority. "Protect Scope".

You are however correct about one thing. The NPA were inept.

Your MEC gave away your scope. There has never been a case where scope has been breached without some worthless self serving negotiating committee signing the bottom line. It's all part of pilots screwing pilots.

 

[A350]

Rayford:

And on the other end is another MEC who will take the flying, no matter what the pay, just to get to fly a larger airplane with a somewhat larger paycheck.

We agree that pilots will just screw pilots....and standing guard over all of it is good old ALPA National.

A350

 

[jayme]

ALPA national can't stop a group from undercutting another. Do you think they should have the right to tell you how to vote?

 

[A350]

ALPA National has always had the power to stop the profession from imploding on itself.....except they never do. They occasionally use a strike...but when your carrier liquidates or comes upon hard times, there is never anything for you because they will tell you they don't hire pilots. The ALPA president signs these contracts too....he just has to say no!

They also have had the power to suspend service....this is a nuclear bomb but ever since the APA got jammed with a $30 mil. judgement...they have been as quiet as a lamb.

The USAir pension is a great example.....ALPA National could have vetoed the agreement....let the judge or the government take the pension but to give it away sure didn't do the pilots at DAL, NWA, and UAL any favors.....

A350

 

[jayme]

That's a one way street! I bet you if I ever violated a company policy, it wouldn't be "leave him be, fire him later." It would be instant termination. So why the hell should we "fly now, grieve later."

What Caveman wrote PLUS:

No, you're wrong. When's the last time you heard of an "instant termination" at a union airline? With a union, there is a defined process to terminate a pilot, usually including providing evidence that you deserve to be terminated and that everybody who ever did what you did was also fired. Otherwise the union will aruge that there was precedence for keeping you around.

There are reasons for not liking unions. Your reasons reek of prejudice and lack of understanding.

 

[jayme]

ALPA National has always had the power to stop the profession from imploding on itself.....except they never do. They occasionally use a strike...but when your carrier liquidates or comes upon hard times, there is never anything for you because they will tell you they don't hire pilots. The ALPA president signs these contracts too....he just has to say no!

You mean you want the president of ALPA to override a pilot group's collective voice? Like he's some kind of father figure who knows better than his kids? Are you serious?

They also have had the power to suspend service....this is a nuclear bomb but ever since the APA got jammed with a $30 mil. judgement...they have been as quiet as a lamb.

I'll let your lack of logical thinking speak for itself here.

The USAir pension is a great example.....ALPA National could have vetoed the agreement....let the judge or the government take the pension but to give it away sure didn't do the pilots at DAL, NWA, and UAL any favors.....

A350

Again, you think National should override the wishes of a pilot group's decision? I'm guessing you're already anti-union. If national had overruled a pilot groups vote, I'm certain people like you would be using that as ammo against ALPA as well. Damned if you do...

 

[A350]

As you are so quick to point out....the pension debacle at USAir was not the pilot group's decision, but a 9th hour back door deal. National should have known better.

A350

 

[Splert]

As you are so quick to point out....the pension debacle at USAir was not the pilot group's decision, but a 9th hour back door deal. National should have known better.

A350

We have a 5% 401K match in a 401K that is out of balance and fails IRC testing every year and a statement that at any time and for any reason the company can amend, change or terminate each and every benefit plan at the company.

Your PBGC Pension is probably a better deal.

ALPA may suck but what we have a JetBlue swallows.

Next!

 

[A350]

Splert.....

Yeah.....$28,800 a year from the government instead of a $1.5-2.5 million lump sum is a better deal all right! The way our government spends money....I ain't counting on that either.

That verbiage is in there....but the company has never done that. They pay to equal everyone up and pay the profit sharing....even when we lost money and fuel was $4/gal and going to the moon.

I am not defending some of the things that management does....but it will take a whole lot to make me change my mind about ALPA.

A350