The irony of it all

[D-Bo]

They (the deal makers) don't care what the pilot group or any other employee group thinks.

.

They'll realize the error with that attitude if not before, then immediately afterward an announcement if we're talking UAL and LCC. The whole company will just be out of business sooner than later.

 

[UALjan15]

Only problem with all that:

They (the deal makers) don't care what the pilot group or any other employee group thinks.

Of course they don't, but they ignore them at their own peril. Sure, they can negotiate whatever they wish and announce it tomorrow. But there's something you don't understand because you (AAA) look at a merger as something that saves your sorry career: If the UAL pilot group doesn't want this merger, they can stop it. Painful, yes. Think summer of 2000, but much worse.

At the moment this merger is announced, they will see two possibilities. The first is that Tilton gets his deal, rides off with all of the money, and the combined carcass is left to die a slow death. The second (and distinctly possible) option is that they burn it down and deliver the ashes to Tilton, who now rides off to join Lorenzo in the Airline Hall of Infamy.

You are right in one respect: UAL's best days are behind them, for no other reason than a steady diet of bad management decisions and poor leadership from the top. It truly is a shame.

 

[bravodude]

Of course they don't, but they ignore them at their own peril. Sure, they can negotiate whatever they wish and announce it tomorrow. But there's something you don't understand because you (AAA) look at a merger as something that saves your sorry career: If the UAL pilot group doesn't want this merger, they can stop it. Painful, yes. Think summer of 2000, but much worse.

At the moment this merger is announced, they will see two possibilities. The first is that Tilton gets his deal, rides off with all of the money, and the combined carcass is left to die a slow death. The second (and distinctly possible) option is that they burn it down and deliver the ashes to Tilton, who now rides off to join Lorenzo in the Airline Hall of Infamy.

You are right in one respect: UAL's best days are behind them, for no other reason than a steady diet of bad management decisions and poor leadership from the top. It truly is a shame.

Do you guys believe that you can make it on your own? I would think if there was someway to get rid of tilton you would be alright.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Remember the "summer of love (hell), which was followed by bankruptcy. Now the crap at USAir has resulted in the ouster of ALPA. Next it will be the ouster of ALPA at UAL. ALPA consistently gets what is coming to it. ALPA consistently thinks it can treat people as it wishes without repercussions. The laws of nature say they must pay the price and they will.

It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces, "Woe unto the world because of offenses; for it must needs be that offenses come, but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh." Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."

 

[D-Bo]

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Remember the "summer of love (hell), which was followed by bankruptcy.

Wow. The summer of 2000 didn't cause BK. Bad management and 911 did. Also, the summer of 2000 wasn't the pilots fault. That was also managements fault. If they would have delivered our contract on time and negotiated in good faith, they wouldn't have ended giving us more than we initially asked for. They BSd around and it cost them more in the end. Looking forward to the Summer of 2008!

 

[cactusboy53]

Hey LOSER... "roughneck"

First off...
I thought the WEST pilots saved little old USAirways from death and destruction. What a great thing for each America WORST pilot to do... go in their own pocket and save little old USAirways. Like they had ANYTHING to do with it.

Secondly, your typical EAST pilot has been abused by inept and borderline criminal CEO's for 25 years. BUT still the EAST network is where the majority of the revenue is generated.

Lastly,
You really are an idiot for throwing around the word SCAB... just shows how ignorant and illiterate you are.

If you want to blame anyone, blame DOUGIE PARKER for not running the airline, for getting arrogant and trying to buy DELTA and for not leading this airline like he should.

(You have some real ones hanging there too roughneck... SWA was "built" with what many would call SUBSTANDARD pay and benefits for their first 20 years of existence... if anyone throws around SCAB... don't look too deeply at your own history.)

8vAte;
Nice YELLOW dog house. The color fits you well. ALPA may have had 2700 pilots that were mad enough to vote for U-SAP's. I think of the 470+ swing votes there were MANY that had NO CLUE that ALPA would lose. Your union is not only morally bankrupt, but economically getting there. Enjoy having 1800+ guerrilla tacticians doing the very best to bring you back to where you belong. INTEGRITY MATTERS!!

PS...You're welcome for my company, investors and CEO's abilitiy to save your job. A few days away from Ch. 7, creditors placing stickers on equipment and furnishings to determine ownership. Yea, you might have survived...NOT.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Wow. Looking forward to the Summer of 2008!

Are you looking forward to losing your job or what?

The membership is too weak to demand anything so I suggest the UAL pilots just accept the current situation and get over the fact that things will not likely be as they were before. This is an unfortunate state of the industry. Of course the "wild card" is "hot head" leadership like your reply implies. Such an attitude will have very negative results. Only cool heads using well thought out plans will bring any improvement in the UAL pilots position.

I wish you all the best of luck but you should be concerned. Just look at the stock! UAL is becoming prime for a takeover and breakup! A merger with US Air, including the demise of ALPA, may seem bitter but it is better than many other alternatives.

 

[D-Bo]

Are you looking forward to losing your job or what?

I'm not worried about it. I'm looking forward to not getting stepped on again. I lost my job once. If it goes down that path again many of us won't care what condition UAL is left in if any.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

I'm not worried about it. I'm looking forward to not getting stepped on again. I lost my job once. If it goes down that path again many of us won't care what condition UAL is left in if any.

You may want to use caution in the interpretation of the continual negativity that exists in the cockpit. That negativity is normal cockpit conversation that every airline has. After all, how many times can you talk about how great the day is? It's just much easier to talk negative about management, ALPA, age-60, Hillary, UndauntedFlyer, etc. So in actuality, that negativity can be overwhelming to where a pilot really feels that they are better off without their job at their airline. But in reality, without the continually negativity you're exposed to, the job is really quite OK. Yes it's not as great financially as it once was, and commuting is a living hell if you commute, but those situations can be dealt with if you want to.

So it’s really all about attitude. Positive thoughts and actions beget positive results, if only a positive life. Negative actions get negative results and certainly a life filled with fear, worry, doubt. And while you seem to be drinking the Union's cool-aid about how important the pilot’s are, including their standard excuses about the blame for the Summer of Hell, that action was an entirely negative action by the pilots and the union most specifically. And while that job-action certainly had nothing to do with 9/11, UAL was headed steeply in the wrong direction after that summer, a summer of negativism.

Don't listen to the losers who always complain, start looking at your glass as half-full instead of half-empty. You will enjoy your career much better.

 

[BigRed1]

You may want to use caution in the interpretation of the continual negativity that exists in the cockpit. That negativity is normal cockpit conversation that every airline has. After all, how many times can you talk about how great the day is? It's just much easier to talk negative about management, ALPA, age-60, Hillary, UndauntedFlyer, etc. So in actuality, that negativity can be overwhelming to where a pilot really feels that they are better off without their job at their airline. But in reality, without the continually negativity you're exposed to, the job is really quite OK. Yes it's not as great financially as it once was, and commuting is a living hell if you commute, but those situations can be dealt with if you want to.

So it’s really all about attitude. Positive thoughts and actions beget positive results, if only a positive life. Negative actions get negative results and certainly a life filled with fear, worry, doubt. And while you seem to be drinking the Union's cool-aid about how important the pilot’s are, including their standard excuses about the blame for the Summer of Hell, that action was an entirely negative action by the pilots and the union most specifically. And while that job-action certainly had nothing to do with 9/11, UAL was headed steeply in the wrong direction after that summer, a summer of negativism.

Don't listen to the losers who always complain, start looking at your glass as half-full instead of half-empty. You will enjoy your career much better.

Actually, this is quite true. I agree very much with this line of thinking. Thank you for some rational and wise words.

Bigred1
UAL pilot

 

[Luke's Dad]

The Village Idiot flies for SWA!

What a surprise!

As a former UAL guy now at SWA, there are village idiots in both places. I wish only the best for my former UAL brothers. Great people in both places as well.