the future of NJA ???

[RollandPull]

If NJA lost $143 million last year before the contract was even signed, how will they continue to stay in business? Or better yet, what will become of it? Did it get so big that it is faltering much like the Part 121 airlines?

 

[DO-82 driver]

There's lots of spinning that goes on at NJ....Don't forget that they are a huge company. They gurus know how to take money from one facet and spend it on another.

EJM MX charging an NJA aircraft $80 for 2 quarts of BP-2380 makes you wonder how they really shuffle the money around. And that's just one example!!!

 

[Fozzy]

$143 million? Is that it? I lost half that much on my last tour alone.
Don't believe everything you read. If you have ever worked for a company that has really been losing money, (which at this point most of us have) you know how ugly things get. Things in CMH are business as usual.

 

[RNObased]

If NJA lost $143 million last year before the contract was even signed, how will they continue to stay in business? Or better yet, what will become of it? Did it get so big that it is faltering much like the Part 121 airlines?

Well I don't know where you got your numbers, don't really care. I think that is too high, however you need to look at the grand scheme of things, which is this. If NJA went away tommorrow, how much would Bershire-Hataway lose..
Now if you think about THAT number, you will see on thing, NJA is going no where, it is a major cash cow. The number I have have heard is somewhere around 400 million, but that was just a guess, by someone with access to more numbers then I have....

 

[temcgrew]

NJA is going no where, it is a major cash cow

This is always said when companies are in trouble.

 

[GVFlyer]

Here are the actual NetJets profit and loss numbers from Berkshire Hathaway's April 2006 10K filing with the the Securities and Exchange Commission.

Flight services

Flight service revenues in 2005 increased $416 million (13%) over 2004, which, in turn, increased $813 million (33%) over 2003. In 2005, revenues of the training business (FlightSafety) and the fractional ownership business (NetJets) each increased 13% over revenues in 2004. In 2005, the increase in training revenue was primarily due to increased simulator usage and increased demand, primarily in the corporate aviation and regional airline markets. The fractional ownership program revenue increase in 2005 over 2004 reflected an 18% increase in flight operations and management service fees. The increase in flight operations revenue primarily resulted from a 7% increase in occupied flight hours, rate increases and a higher mix of larger cabin aircraft usage, which generate higher revenues. Over 90% of the revenue increase in 2004 over 2003 resulted from the NetJets business where flight operations revenue increased just under $400 million and revenues from aircraft sales increased about $360 million. NetJets and FlightSafety continue to be leaders in the aircraft fractional ownership and training markets.​

Pre-tax earnings of the flight services businesses totaled $120 million in 2005, a decrease of $71 million as compared to 2004. In 2005, pre-tax earnings from the FlightSafety training business, increased approximately 10% over 2004 to approximately $200 million, due primarily to the impact of increased training revenues and simulator sales. NetJets incurred a pre-tax loss of about $80 million in 2005 compared to pre-tax income of about $10 million in 2004. Several factors contributed to the loss in 2005.

Throughout 2005, NetJets experienced unusually high shortages of available aircraft due to increases in owner demand outpacing increases in capacity. Consequently, NetJets subcontracted additional aircraft capacity through charter services. The costs associated with subcontracted flights were not fully recoverable from clients and caused an incremental pre-tax cost of approximately $85 million in 2005. NetJets has added aircraft to the core fleet and is developing strategies to address capacity issues and restore profitability. NetJets recorded a special charge of $20 million in the fourth quarter of 2005 for prior periods’ compensation related to a new labor contract with its pilots and flight attendants. Additionally, interest expense in 2005 increased approximately $23 million due to higher interest rates.


GV
​

 

[knowone]

I hate to break the news but things are not business as usual in CMH. They are on a hiring freeze, a raise freeze, they are turning off the lights every chance they get, not turning on the AC in the flight center, decreasing tuition reimburstment. If that is business as usual I would hate to see what happens if there is a down turn.

 

[xpdriver]

I hate to break the news but things are not business as usual in CMH. They are on a hiring freeze, a raise freeze, they are turning off the lights every chance they get, not turning on the AC in the flight center, decreasing tuition reimburstment. If that is business as usual I would hate to see what happens if there is a down turn.

Cuts are coming, no raises because that person might not be there tomorrrow. After Bill B hired some 50 or so VP of everything,it is time to streamline the operation.It has already happened at NJI and two from NJA. Last year EJM had a 35% increase in charter revenue,88% of that 35% was from NJA. SO THE MONEY AT Netjets Service move around alot. I wonder how much we pay Flightsafety to train. Or EJM to service our plane in HPN and LUK. Like the guy said before 2 something for a 12 dollar bottle of oil. And last but not least would all the smart millionaires continue to invest if it was a sinking ship.

 

[Fozzy]

That sounds like what the pilot group had for a few years.
That is nothing to get worried about. If they really tightened the belt, you would know it.

We are still stepping over thousands to save penny's.

Sorry about the pay freeze. That does suck.

BTW we have needed a hiring freeze since BB arrived. Maybe they could move some more peps over to dispatch and the FM's.

 

[wanttofly]

Yes, they have put a freeze on raises for those in CMH. But as someone else has said, that is more of a result of becoming more effective. All you have to do is look and see how many pilots are being hired.

 

[Bad Monkey!]

The 800 pound Gorilla isn't going away. You just keep feeding it more bananas and watch it get fatter.

 

[Guitar rocker]

When we start getting kicked out of hotels because the bill isnt paid or nobody will sell us fuel or no vendors will sell us parts, then we know things are bad. Almost forgot, when the check bounces, then we know our fate is pending. Until then, it's all good.

 

[MorePilotPay]

If we're going to count Flight Safety, why not count Dairy Queen? They're doing pretty good.

 

[netjetwife]

So the company shows signs of actually getting serious about controlling costs and cutting waste? That should have happened years ago, and would have if they hadn't been taking the easier way by underpaying the pilots. Now that they have to pay fair wages (to most of the pilots), they are thinking more about efficiency. That's as it should be. The pilots are productive; it's only fair to expect the other employees to be also. If the good ole boy network placed a lot of VPs in cushy jobs that aren't pulling their weight, they need to cut those positions. The union and the company are currently working together on a big project that will increase efficiency, provide the pilots better training, and save millions. That is a STEP in the right direction.
NJW

 

[SCT]

Once again NJW and the union saves the day! What would W. Buffet do with out you, NJW?

 

[Fozzy]

When we start getting kicked out of hotels because the bill isnt paid or nobody will sell us fuel or no vendors will sell us parts, then we know things are bad. Almost forgot, when the check bounces, then we know our fate is pending. Until then, it's all good.

Yes Sir! That is what I am saying. Untill the landscapeing goes to he!l and the gift shop closes in CMH I am not worried.

As far as Warren. Did anyone see him today on CNBC answering questions with the NetJets both right behind him?!? You can not buy advertising that good.

 

[MorePilotPay]

So the company shows signs of actually getting serious about controlling costs....
NJW

I hope you weren't refering to the CMH folks yearly wage increases. Even crews got those over the years during the negotiations. These are the folks who tried to recover flights and get the schedule back together while some crews were, shall we say, hanging out at the FBOs.

 

[xpdriver]

If we're going to count Flight Safety, why not count Dairy Queen? They're doing pretty good.

Because flightsafety is under NetJets Services and DQ is part of BH..

Plus Chili Dogs are not part of the 7 choices for crew food..

 

[FamilyGuy]

Because flightsafety is under NetJets Services and DQ is part of BH..

Plus Chili Dogs are not part of the 7 choices for crew food..

HUH? You'd better go back and check your facts again.

Flight Safety is NOT under NetJets Services. It is a separate company under the Berkshire umbrella, just like DQ, Geico, Shaw Carpets, Pampered Chef, and others....

 

[Fozzy]

Oh great. You're back.



:uzi:

 

[RNObased]

This is always said when companies are in trouble.

Really??? I have had people with inside knowledge explain it to me in great detail, and it is a cash cow. Now you believe what you want to believe, that is your right. The actual numbers are mind bending. As G-V guy stated it was a 80million dollar loss, which is the number I was told, not whatvever the other number was.

Now for the guys in CMH not getting raises, I'm sorry about that. However when Billy Boustire hires, somewhere around 200 is the number I heard, people for positions that didn't exist before his arrival, then I agree, why give a raise to people that aren't going to be around in a month or so... After the purge, then I bet there will be raises.

 

[TORCH67]

Don't make it sound like the sky if falling! The msg said there would be a delay, not an indefinite freeze. The man is sorting through the mess BB made in the casino and Easton. I feel for the people that were counting on the review/raise! I'm waiting for the first post blaming us mean nasty pilots for the delay!

 

[NJACrewservicer]

I'm waiting for the first post blaming us mean nasty pilots for the delay!

How typical and completely hypocritical! This whole thread is about blaming problems the company is facing on BB and the entire CMH crew. We have more class than that to blame you! My only problem with the crew during contract negotiations was your work ethic. Productivity has increased ten-fold since the contract was signed, coincidence? We, crew service, have always been your biggest supporter for a pay increase and don't blame the loss (nor would we ever) on you!

 

[MorePilotPay]

Thanks Guy.

 

[Diesel]

And the pilots have been the biggest supporters of crew services getting a raise PLUS more POWER. Crew services should have the right to say do this or do that or thats bullshiate but they can't. They have to call or send an email. It's not right because they are seeing the same pic as everyone else.

Nobody is blaming anyone except boisture for the screwup and carnage that he left in his wake.

 

[Hogprint]

When we start getting kicked out of hotels because the bill isnt paid or nobody will sell us fuel or no vendors will sell us parts, then we know things are bad. Almost forgot, when the check bounces, then we know our fate is pending. Until then, it's all good.

Exactamundo!!!!!!! As Fonzy would say! When the nice ladies at Signature start turning us away and they repo my Hilton Diamond card, then and only then will I be worried.

 

[GEXDriver]

Because flightsafety is under NetJets Services and DQ is part of BH..

Al Ueltschi will be amazed to hear that...

Actually, FSI and Netjets are a part of BK Flight Services which is in turn a part of BK Non Insurance Businesses as is Dairy Queen, Lane, Shaw Industries and so forth.

The Insurance and Reinsurance Businesses are comprised of the following sub-groups: (1) GEICO and its subsidiaries, (2) General Re and its subsidiaries, (3) Berkshire Hathaway Reinsurance Group, and (4) Berkshire Hathaway Primary Group.​

Flight Safety International is no more a part of NetJets than Geico is a part of General RE.​

 

[Going2Baja]

Speaking of who owns who....Is Berkshire as a whole making good $$$ in this economy? I have $$ in a 401K that needs to go somewhere.

Baja.

 

[gunfyter]

How typical and completely hypocritical! This whole thread is about blaming problems the company is facing on BB and the entire CMH crew. We have more class than that to blame you! My only problem with the crew during contract negotiations was your work ethic. Productivity has increased ten-fold since the contract was signed, coincidence? We, crew service, have always been your biggest supporter for a pay increase and don't blame the loss (nor would we ever) on you!

New contract is much more efficient than the old.... better for everybody.

 

[GVFlyer]

Speaking of who owns who....Is Berkshire as a whole making good $$$ in this economy? I have $$ in a 401K that needs to go somewhere.

Baja.

This is what it closed at today.

89,899.00 +699.00 +0.78%

Its kind of a crap shoot. Half the analysts say "Strong Buy" the other half say "Hold". It's good on the fundamentals, but it has been trading in the same $8,000 range for the last 18 months and is down from it's high of $92,000 two years ago.


GV