The damning attitude of the 65% group at Skywest thats hurting the industry....

[120% Torque]

Taken from a recent post made by a guy we will call Jake from Skywest Airlines:

"I'm going to stick my neck out, and some of you aint going to like it...

-I feel fairly compensated.

-I FEEL FAIRLY COMPENSATED!

There, I said it. Wow, that feels good.

Now, would I like a pay increase? Absolutely.

Do I think it is high time we get a significant increase for the guys that have been at the 16 yr scale for the a last five years? Absolutely.

But honestly, for what I do, I feel like what I get in return is fair. Now, this kind of goes back to my previous post regarding the unmeasured benefits of the job.

Chip said something that I really agree with, and I think is important to remember. He said that he doesn't want to run out a fix the pay issue, without addressing the morale issue as well. Think about it, we all get another $10/hr, and nothing else changes. The slackers still slack, the kool-aid drinkers still like the kool-aid, and some of us are still feeling the pressure from our unionized "brothers and sisters". It is attitude and perspective that needs to change, then,the pay.

Then, as we continue to be sucessful, and SkyWest continues year after year after year to flourish, and the jets get shinier and bigger, the pay creeps up. And we own the city. When we own the city, we are the city counsel, and we set the pay standard. But now we compete and we do it together.

One more question to discuss:

Will Southwest Airlines be able to sustain their current pilot pay structure indefinitely?

Jake"

 

[wmuflyguy]

One more question to discuss:

Will Southwest Airlines be able to sustain their current pilot pay structure indefinitely?

Jake"

Not with guys like Jake around.

 

[XPOO]

Vote was two months ago, ALPA's third strike-out in less than 10 years. Time to let it go and move on my man.

 

[outtahere]

Oh I've let it go, just like any Skywest jumpseaters. You won't help out the industry, and me, I won't help you. I won't deny you, but if we are one single solitary pound over weight, then you are walking. Just about as much help as you gave all of us.

 

[XPOO]

The threats and bullying will continue until the SkyWest attitude towards ALPA improves.

 

[120% Torque]

Vote was two months ago, ALPA's third strike-out in less than 10 years. Time to let it go and move on my man.

Oh I have moved on dont worry. It wont stop me from exposing those who carry the viruses and diseases that plague our industry however. Each airline does not live in a bubble. Jakes attitudes hurt every pilot in the this industry and prevent us from ever getting back to where we were, regional and major alike.

 

[Newpilot2b]

120%Torque

9/11 man, 9/11 Things are different now. Sure I would love for my wife to be making 100g's as school teacher but guess what .....she doesn't.
Name me another career that when you want to go to another company that you have to go back down to the bottom of the list and start over again. (Remember I said career not job).
Word of Wisdom from a wise old Capt. "We are just blue collar workers that wear white collars"
Untill the Mafia is our of the Unions I am sorry nothing wil change.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

65% SKYW pilots, age 65? WTF Skyw pilots are causing something! Get your torches, we must blame some one, anyone except ourselves. The SKYW pilot group is just a sample of the population at large. The majority of regional pilots here today wouldn't have been hired 10 years ago, for many numerous and varied reasons. If you want to know why the industry is in the shape it is, look in the mirror, every one of you $hitbags who sits at it's computer and whines endlessly about his JOB, instead of going to an ALPA meeting and making your point by participating are the problem. You all are an embarrassment, skyfag, $hitnation and hello newwoman, you lead the pack, at least you are brave enough to display your stupidity on a public forum, the rest of you deserve exactly what you are getting!
Enjoy it's only gonna get worse, why, look in the mirror and see the problem!
PBR

 

[Cardinal]

Then, as we continue to be sucessful, and SkyWest continues year after year after year to flourish, and the jets get shinier and bigger, the pay creeps up. And we own the city. When we own the city, we are the city counsel, and we set the pay standard. But now we compete and we do it together.

What the hell is this guy smoking? This paragraph of his is home to some abysmal logic. The shinier the jets get he becomes a city council-man and then gets paid more. Uh, yeah. A window into the brain of someone who think's he gets paid what he does because "he's worth it." A persistent, inaccurate delusion. He gets paid what he does because someone else negotiated it to that level, and SKW is forced to meet it.

I've reread that passage like ten times, and it makes less sense with every repetition.

 

[jsand757]

I cant wait untill we stop growing and upgrade stops. Then we will see how fairly compensated everyone feels. The regionals are a place where a lot of people thought were a stepping stone for a long time. It is not for a lot of people. When growth stops how happy are fo going to be on 7th year pay at $43 and no raise after that on our rediculous 20 year pay scale. Pilot pay does NOT make or break the company, that is the biggest bullsh!^ that many pilots believe. Now everyone is actually EXCITED about crj1000's. Yeah lets take more flying from some main line! All this bitching about the Legacys and how horrible they are I agree, EXCEPT ITS A LOT BETTER THAN A REGIONAL!!! The total compensation is so much better than anything SKYWEST will ever give us. Unless we have a B-plan and way more 401k match in our current pay discussions, (the 2% match for years 1-5 and 4% 6-10) is pathetic. Note I said DISCUSSIONS not NEGOTIATIONS!!

That is because you DISCUSS a raise in your allowance, ya know like your parents did when you were 10 and cutting the lawn.

You NEGOTIATE when you have a legal binding contract.
I FOR ONE AM SICK OF DISCUSSING!!

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Taken from a recent post made by a guy we will call Jake from Skywest Airlines:

"I'm going to stick my neck out, and some of you aint going to like it...

-I feel fairly compensated.

-I FEEL FAIRLY COMPENSATED!

There, I said it. Wow, that feels good.

Now, would I like a pay increase? Absolutely.

Do I think it is high time we get a significant increase for the guys that have been at the 16 yr scale for the a last five years? Absolutely.

But honestly, for what I do, I feel like what I get in return is fair. Now, this kind of goes back to my previous post regarding the unmeasured benefits of the job.

Chip said something that I really agree with, and I think is important to remember. He said that he doesn't want to run out a fix the pay issue, without addressing the morale issue as well. Think about it, we all get another $10/hr, and nothing else changes. The slackers still slack, the kool-aid drinkers still like the kool-aid, and some of us are still feeling the pressure from our unionized "brothers and sisters". It is attitude and perspective that needs to change, then,the pay.

Then, as we continue to be sucessful, and SkyWest continues year after year after year to flourish, and the jets get shinier and bigger, the pay creeps up. And we own the city. When we own the city, we are the city counsel, and we set the pay standard. But now we compete and we do it together.

One more question to discuss:

Will Southwest Airlines be able to sustain their current pilot pay structure indefinitely?

Jake"

This can't be for real, can it??





P.S. If it is...someone needs to knock the Kool-aid pitcher out of his hands!

 

[eaglefly]

Vote was two months ago, ALPA's third strike-out in less than 10 years. Time to let it go and move on my man.

Yep.

Whatever happens to Skywest pilots in the future, they asked for it..............3 times.

 

[chitownpilot]

P.S. If it is...someone needs to knock the Kool-aid pitcher out of his hands!

Remind me again why someone who just goes to work and is happy must be drinking the kool-aid? Are pilots not allowed to enjoy this career anymore?

And its unfair to assume this is the attitude of all of us who voted ALPA down. I've read that "city counsel" paragraph about 100 times myself, and I cant make any sense of it either. But do I want a pay raise? Do I want to see Zoltar, long call reserve, better new hire pay at Skywest? Definitely. Do I think ALPA is the most effective way to accomplish these goals? No, I honestly dont.

 

[siucavflight]

Drivel
So what the guy enjoys his job.
SKW is doing well, good for them.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Yep.

Whatever happens to Skywest pilots in the future, they asked for it..............3 times.

eagle, werent you just whining about how bad alpa is in the majors section? More specifically:

"Unfortunately the only way is to quit.

Due to the corruption within ALPA and their extortionist tactics, that's your only option.

Sorry."

Maybe I was taking this out of context?

 

[Jmoney]

Oh Well...

I would like to know how many of these guys are getting hired at ALPA majors. The big guys DO pay attention to these toolbags. I hate to see the whole group held accountable, but you know they will be......

There is never any shortage of people in this industry who are ready and willing to screw their fellow pilots-just ask Skynation!

 

[pilotbrain]

So what if SkyWest didn't want ALPA on property. Grow up.

 

[AugerPtrol]

I would like to know how many of these guys are getting hired at ALPA majors. The big guys DO pay attention to these toolbags. I hate to see the whole group held accountable, but you know they will be......

There is never any shortage of people in this industry who are ready and willing to screw their fellow pilots-just ask Skynation!

If you looked in to any of the garbage that you spew out of you fecal hole, you would know that Skywest pilots are being hired at a rate of 20+ per month by every legacy carrier out there. You are wishing for something that is just not ever going to happen. DEAL!

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

Yawn.

 

[Caspian27]

I'd sure love to write something eloquent and convincing in response to several things on this thread, but I've tried that many times now and it seems that people are just going to be immature no matter what...I have a couple thoughts though. One, this jumpseat thing is stupid and asinine. You will deny someone because they didn't vote for a bargaining representative? You say they didn't help "you." How would the group voting yes helped specifically "you" anyway? Would it add more money to the ALPA lobbying budget? Yes...would that make you happier at work? Raised your pay immediately? Given your wife/girlfriend bigger boobs? No it wouldn't. It's over, let it go. Enjoy your job, if you can and work to make your company better.

What was the original poster trying to say anyway? I too have read that city-council thing a bunch of times and I have no clue.

 

[Jmoney]

If you looked in to any of the garbage that you spew out of you fecal hole, you would know that Skywest pilots are being hired at a rate of 20+ per month by every legacy carrier out there. You are wishing for something that is just not ever going to happen. DEAL!

I hope you need to get somewhere on my jumpseat. You may think there are no consequences for screwing everyone else in your industry. You will find that this is not the case when your pink hinie needs a favor from me!

-Best try the next flight-jackoff!

P.S.-you are welcome for the raise that we just fought 5 yrs for-moocher!

 

[buscap]

Gentlemen,

This whole thing is obviously not all about compensation. It is about so much more than can be listed on this board. But please give me a moment to quantify just how much you have messed up.

You have said no to the only organization which has successfully spoken on behalf of our profession on the national level. (While it could be argued the APA has also done so, they are an ALPA spinoff and aren't likely trying to organize you guys anyway.)

Nearly every single benefit and safety measure advocated for by ALPA is presently enjoyed by Skywest pilots and will most likely be present at whatever major airline they may be striving to get to.

While ALPA is not a perfect organization, the benefits of their collective history far outweigh the negatives. (AlPA's own written history acknowledges the ramifications of fighting for three crew in a two crew cockpit, and perhaps one day we will all read their self depreciating obit on the age 60 rule.)

These benefits of ALPA's advocacy are eroded at all levels when one of the largest regional pilot groups refuses to contribute to the profession, in a shortsighted effort which is unmatched in the recent history of aviation labor.

While strong arguements can be made for each individual reason for a NO vote, they are far outweighed by the overwhelming volume of evidence which points to a no-brainer YES vote.

Maybe you didn't like the 'tone' coming from the pro-ALPA crowd? C'mon guys. I'd say TCAS and GPWS trump that one.

Next please...????

Oh yeah, ALPA legal and insurance trumps the 2% dues big time.

You guys just plain messed up.

Why don't you just keep it all consistent and write-in Howard Stern on the next Presidential election ballot.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

buscap..... good post... the problem is at SKYW is ....everything is as advertised. Getting hired, quick upgrade and on to the majors...

In addition, the guys that were at Mesa and then came to SKYW want to think that ALPA failed over there.. they don't want to talk about MEsa management, just Mesa ALPA.

The fustrating part of it is.... the ALPA guys have logically expalined as you have the reason for ALPA. ALPA is a custodian of the profession. The SKYW guys have simply said... "hey its all about me..." Few will bodly admit it... most will stop posting when you ask them about TCAS and EGPWS....

They are going to have to feel pain before they realize.... only that will motivate change. (pain meaning market forces)

Nonetheless I will still volunteer and yes the SKYW pilots will freeload...

 

[BUDDHA145]

Union or No Union??? what a predicament...

is like Kurt Cobain thinking of his live with Courtney Love.

I HAVE TO A AGREE WITH KURT!!!

from a union member.

 

[chitownpilot]

I still dont understand the idea that just because Skywest isnt union that it automatically makes us freeloaders. I understand your argument of TCAS and EGPWS (which we're all greatful for), but if these improvements to safety are thanks to ALPA, then, by your definition, shouldnt all teamster (or APA or SWAPA) pilots be labeled freeloaders as well?

and if you're argument of freeloading is based on negotiations, pay rates, and industry leading contracts, that begs the question who has the best work rules? who is at the head of the pack? and does that make anybody that has it worse than that carrier a freeloader off of any improvement that they have?

I know for a fact that we dont have the worst work rules and pay in the business. So if a union carrier goes into negotiations and uses our policy manual as a good guide, does that make them a free loader?

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Remind me again why someone who just goes to work and is happy must be drinking the kool-aid? Are pilots not allowed to enjoy this career anymore?

And its unfair to assume this is the attitude of all of us who voted ALPA down. I've read that "city counsel" paragraph about 100 times myself, and I cant make any sense of it either. But do I want a pay raise? Do I want to see Zoltar, long call reserve, better new hire pay at Skywest? Definitely. Do I think ALPA is the most effective way to accomplish these goals? No, I honestly dont.

Oh, my mistake...SAPA has proven much more effective!








Rigghhhhttt!!

 

[Airline Driver]

Blaming Skywest for our industry's problems is close minded and not very observant. You want a source to blame, then blame our own Government for deregulation. That's what hurt the industry!!

 

[chitownpilot]

Oh, my mistake...SAPA has proven much more effective!

You're absolutely right, SAPA isnt perfect either. There is no absolute answer. Its up to everyone to weigh the options and choose what they believe to be the lesser of two evils.

However, I am cautiously optimistic about what SAPA can produce for us, hopefully in the near future. I really appreciate everything that Bill S. has done so far, and think he's doing a great job as SAPA president. If we can get JB out of there and now that BH is gone, maybe we can start accomplishing some really good things.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

You're absolutely right, SAPA isnt perfect either. There is no absolute answer. Its up to everyone to weigh the options and choose what they believe to be the lesser of two evils.

However, I am cautiously optimistic about what SAPA can produce for us, hopefully in the near future. I really appreciate everything that Bill S. has done so far, and think he's doing a great job as SAPA president. If we can get JB out of there and now that BH is gone, maybe we can start accomplishing some really good things.

I guess you can believe in Santa Claus if you like...however based on the reality I've experienced over the years SAPA will come up with an offer that's just enough to keep guys like yourself believing they are able to "negotiate" for us. From what I've heard there will be a fairly big raise for new hires since ours are about the lowest paid these days(and they are having a real hard time filling newhire classes), and the rest of us will not get anything close to bringing us back even for the many years we went without COLA!



Let alone, an increase that would actually keep us ahead of the rate of inflation.

 

[TWA69]

I think Skywest not voting in ALPA could be a very good thing.... If both pilot groups realize the best solution is to join together and form a independant, or join an established union. What has Alpa done for anybody lately? Screwed over the US Air pilots. Abandoned the TWA pilots. Blatently went against the majority over the age 60 issue, and didn't even offer an explanation. Union's are a necessity in this industry, but when your union isn't looking out for your best interests, it is time to look elsewhere. The senior MEC leadership at Alpa has unfortunately taken on the attitude of management at most airlines, "I WILL GET MINE", GREED. Alpa has to many conflicting interests, and I feel the regional airlines are at the bottom of their list. Unfortunately this probably will not happen, there aren't enough people who see the big picture. Until this happens the infighting and undercutting will continue. Happy Trails.