The damning attitude of the 65% group at Skywest thats hurting the industry....

[Jmoney]

If you looked in to any of the garbage that you spew out of you fecal hole, you would know that Skywest pilots are being hired at a rate of 20+ per month by every legacy carrier out there. You are wishing for something that is just not ever going to happen. DEAL!

I hope you need to get somewhere on my jumpseat. You may think there are no consequences for screwing everyone else in your industry. You will find that this is not the case when your pink hinie needs a favor from me!

-Best try the next flight-jackoff!

P.S.-you are welcome for the raise that we just fought 5 yrs for-moocher!

 

[buscap]

Gentlemen,

This whole thing is obviously not all about compensation. It is about so much more than can be listed on this board. But please give me a moment to quantify just how much you have messed up.

You have said no to the only organization which has successfully spoken on behalf of our profession on the national level. (While it could be argued the APA has also done so, they are an ALPA spinoff and aren't likely trying to organize you guys anyway.)

Nearly every single benefit and safety measure advocated for by ALPA is presently enjoyed by Skywest pilots and will most likely be present at whatever major airline they may be striving to get to.

While ALPA is not a perfect organization, the benefits of their collective history far outweigh the negatives. (AlPA's own written history acknowledges the ramifications of fighting for three crew in a two crew cockpit, and perhaps one day we will all read their self depreciating obit on the age 60 rule.)

These benefits of ALPA's advocacy are eroded at all levels when one of the largest regional pilot groups refuses to contribute to the profession, in a shortsighted effort which is unmatched in the recent history of aviation labor.

While strong arguements can be made for each individual reason for a NO vote, they are far outweighed by the overwhelming volume of evidence which points to a no-brainer YES vote.

Maybe you didn't like the 'tone' coming from the pro-ALPA crowd? C'mon guys. I'd say TCAS and GPWS trump that one.

Next please...????

Oh yeah, ALPA legal and insurance trumps the 2% dues big time.

You guys just plain messed up.

Why don't you just keep it all consistent and write-in Howard Stern on the next Presidential election ballot.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

buscap..... good post... the problem is at SKYW is ....everything is as advertised. Getting hired, quick upgrade and on to the majors...

In addition, the guys that were at Mesa and then came to SKYW want to think that ALPA failed over there.. they don't want to talk about MEsa management, just Mesa ALPA.

The fustrating part of it is.... the ALPA guys have logically expalined as you have the reason for ALPA. ALPA is a custodian of the profession. The SKYW guys have simply said... "hey its all about me..." Few will bodly admit it... most will stop posting when you ask them about TCAS and EGPWS....

They are going to have to feel pain before they realize.... only that will motivate change. (pain meaning market forces)

Nonetheless I will still volunteer and yes the SKYW pilots will freeload...

 

[BUDDHA145]

Union or No Union??? what a predicament...

is like Kurt Cobain thinking of his live with Courtney Love.

I HAVE TO A AGREE WITH KURT!!!

from a union member.

 

[chitownpilot]

I still dont understand the idea that just because Skywest isnt union that it automatically makes us freeloaders. I understand your argument of TCAS and EGPWS (which we're all greatful for), but if these improvements to safety are thanks to ALPA, then, by your definition, shouldnt all teamster (or APA or SWAPA) pilots be labeled freeloaders as well?

and if you're argument of freeloading is based on negotiations, pay rates, and industry leading contracts, that begs the question who has the best work rules? who is at the head of the pack? and does that make anybody that has it worse than that carrier a freeloader off of any improvement that they have?

I know for a fact that we dont have the worst work rules and pay in the business. So if a union carrier goes into negotiations and uses our policy manual as a good guide, does that make them a free loader?

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Remind me again why someone who just goes to work and is happy must be drinking the kool-aid? Are pilots not allowed to enjoy this career anymore?

And its unfair to assume this is the attitude of all of us who voted ALPA down. I've read that "city counsel" paragraph about 100 times myself, and I cant make any sense of it either. But do I want a pay raise? Do I want to see Zoltar, long call reserve, better new hire pay at Skywest? Definitely. Do I think ALPA is the most effective way to accomplish these goals? No, I honestly dont.

Oh, my mistake...SAPA has proven much more effective!








Rigghhhhttt!!

 

[Airline Driver]

Blaming Skywest for our industry's problems is close minded and not very observant. You want a source to blame, then blame our own Government for deregulation. That's what hurt the industry!!

 

[chitownpilot]

Oh, my mistake...SAPA has proven much more effective!

You're absolutely right, SAPA isnt perfect either. There is no absolute answer. Its up to everyone to weigh the options and choose what they believe to be the lesser of two evils.

However, I am cautiously optimistic about what SAPA can produce for us, hopefully in the near future. I really appreciate everything that Bill S. has done so far, and think he's doing a great job as SAPA president. If we can get JB out of there and now that BH is gone, maybe we can start accomplishing some really good things.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

You're absolutely right, SAPA isnt perfect either. There is no absolute answer. Its up to everyone to weigh the options and choose what they believe to be the lesser of two evils.

However, I am cautiously optimistic about what SAPA can produce for us, hopefully in the near future. I really appreciate everything that Bill S. has done so far, and think he's doing a great job as SAPA president. If we can get JB out of there and now that BH is gone, maybe we can start accomplishing some really good things.

I guess you can believe in Santa Claus if you like...however based on the reality I've experienced over the years SAPA will come up with an offer that's just enough to keep guys like yourself believing they are able to "negotiate" for us. From what I've heard there will be a fairly big raise for new hires since ours are about the lowest paid these days(and they are having a real hard time filling newhire classes), and the rest of us will not get anything close to bringing us back even for the many years we went without COLA!



Let alone, an increase that would actually keep us ahead of the rate of inflation.

 

[TWA69]

I think Skywest not voting in ALPA could be a very good thing.... If both pilot groups realize the best solution is to join together and form a independant, or join an established union. What has Alpa done for anybody lately? Screwed over the US Air pilots. Abandoned the TWA pilots. Blatently went against the majority over the age 60 issue, and didn't even offer an explanation. Union's are a necessity in this industry, but when your union isn't looking out for your best interests, it is time to look elsewhere. The senior MEC leadership at Alpa has unfortunately taken on the attitude of management at most airlines, "I WILL GET MINE", GREED. Alpa has to many conflicting interests, and I feel the regional airlines are at the bottom of their list. Unfortunately this probably will not happen, there aren't enough people who see the big picture. Until this happens the infighting and undercutting will continue. Happy Trails.

 

[chitownpilot]

Please dont lump me in with the group of kool-aid drinkers. Ive spent my time at an ALPA carrier (TSA) during contract negotiations, and I know how that goes. I'm certainly not so naive as to believe that SAPA is an MEC that does any real negotiating. But from what I understand, Skywest management really wants to get a new payrate set soon. With that kind of fire lit under management, I believe Bill S wont present us with just any proposal. He's already said that he's turned down a couple of the company's offers..

But I should make sure to say, just as a pre-emptive defense, that you're right, it wont come out as the highest rates in the industry, and its certainly not gonna make up for those years of lost COLA. I wasnt around during the "deal the ace" saga, or else I'd probably have a completely different outlook this time around, but like I said.. I have cautious optimism..

 

[N252BK]

Hey 120% I mean BCB, you are at Delta now, time to worry about them!! C-ya around!!

 

[BigShotXJTdrvr]

I would like to know how many of these guys are getting hired at ALPA majors. The big guys DO pay attention to these toolbags. I hate to see the whole group held accountable, but you know they will be......

There is never any shortage of people in this industry who are ready and willing to screw their fellow pilots-just ask Skynation!

I hear they're doing just fine getting on at Continental.:laugh:

 

[No.W.]

Just had a Delta guy in my SkyWest jumpseat that said Delta wants more folks from SkyWest to apply. I told him we probably aren't applying because those of us who want to move on feel there is a stigma because a majority of us voted ALPA down. He was surprised by this thinking, and encouraged both my F/O and I to apply. It was a good conversation. Oh, and he was former ASA.

I voted for ALPA, but I was in the minority. RE: Jumpseat war: Not a good idea. There are a lot of folks at SkyWest who were on the fence...when ALPA and the OC went after SAPA(as an illegal organization) it sent a lot of them to the "con" side. It was unfortunate. After that lawsuit was filed, and word got around, I spent a lot of my time trying to explain why ALPA would do that...and not much time talking about the positives of ALPA representation. That was sad, because it was unnecessary. I believe that part of the lawsuit(the rest of the points in the suit are really good and valid...ALPA should have access to ALL forums that SAPA has access to), MAY have cost us the election. If that lawsuit sent some guys over to the "con" side of the fence, how do you think a jumpseat war is going to help?(beside taking out your frustration on another pilot who is probably trying to get home?). It will come off as another power trip to the (possibly) on the fence pilot you are rejecting. Obviously, you don't care. That's fine, but you are making it much more difficult for those of us staying at SkyWest to get our cohorts to vote in Union Representation. On those grounds, I could reject you the next time you try to jumpseat(oh, but you don't commute, do you?), or I will just reject all of those pilots from your airline. Thus, the folks who are actually the problem are not "taught" anything, and those who have done nothing but ask for a ride home are punished.

It simply amazes me when a jumpseat war is threatened...because it shows a formidable lack of foresight. Just like it amazes me when my fellow SkyWest pilots don't have the foresight to see the need for legally binding representation. Same problem(it's all about me and how I feel TODAY), different ways of showing the symptoms.

 

[rickair7777]

Oh I've let it go, just like any Skywest jumpseaters. You won't help out the industry, and me, I won't help you. I won't deny you, but if we are one single solitary pound over weight, then you are walking. Just about as much help as you gave all of us.

I don't suppose you have the nads to tell us who you fly for so I can reciprocate in kind? Tool...

BTW I voted yes.

 

[DoinTime]

What has Alpa done for anybody lately? Screwed over the US Air pilots.

How has ALPA screwed over the USAir guys? The USAir/AmWest situation is a direct result of two parties that refused to compromise with each other. In this case their arbitrator (not an alpa employee) mostly sided with the West pilots to the detriment of the East guys. Thats the risk you take when you put anything in front of an arbitrator.

Abandoned the TWA pilots.

If you buy into the conspiracy theory, yeah they got screwed. If you're not into wild conspiracies, they got screwed by the APA.

Blatently went against the majority over the age 60 issue, and didn't even offer an explanation.

The decision to support the elimination of age 60 was made by the ALPA board of directors (individual MEC chairmen voting on behalf of their entire pilot group). ALPA national did not force any of the 40+ MEC chairmen to vote against the wishes of their pilots. They voted the way they did after careful consideration of all the facts.

I presume you don't have the facts though, right?

 

[BigLebowski]

and yet another brilliant thread...written by none other than an ALPA author.

jeez...i don't think the industry is the way it is because skyw isn't alpa.

I recommend a hobby or something

 

[russtgol]

What is ALPA? Is it like a car club?

 

[Goose Egg]

Yeah, no SkyWest pilot can get hired at a major... that's why my seniority has dropped 10 numbers in the last two weeks.

-Goose

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I still dont understand the idea that just because Skywest isnt union that it automatically makes us freeloaders. I understand your argument of TCAS and EGPWS (which we're all greatful for), but if these improvements to safety are thanks to ALPA, then, by your definition, shouldnt all teamster (or APA or SWAPA) pilots be labeled freeloaders as well?

and if you're argument of freeloading is based on negotiations, pay rates, and industry leading contracts, that begs the question who has the best work rules? who is at the head of the pack? and does that make anybody that has it worse than that carrier a freeloader off of any improvement that they have?

I know for a fact that we dont have the worst work rules and pay in the business. So if a union carrier goes into negotiations and uses our policy manual as a good guide, does that make them a free loader?

The answer to your post is right here...

Blaming Skywest for our industry's problems is close minded and not very observant. You want a source to blame, then blame our own Government for deregulation. That's what hurt the industry!!

How does one engage the gov't?

Does SKYW pilots engage the gov't?

Does ALPA?

Now... as long as there are pilots who REFUSE to engage thier gov't they will be freeloaders to those who do....





is the light maybe....hopefully... beginning to flicker?