• NC Software is having a Black Friday Sale Event thru December 4th on Logbook Pro, APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook, Cirrus Elite Binders, and more. Use coupon code BF2020 at checkout to redeem 15% off your purchase. Click here to shop now.
  • NC Software is proud to announce the release of APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook version 10.0. Click here to view APDL on the Apple App store and install now.

The choice of my life

jgore

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Posts
8
Total Time
None
Hi, I'm a new member. It took me some time to get some encouragement to post this thread, my 2nd one.
For those that don't know me (i guess the majority): My name is Javier Gore, I'm 19yrs old, and I live in Buenos Aires, Argentina.

First of all let me thank you all for your time.
Right now I’m going through a very difficult and critical moment of my life: I’m about to finish highschool and as you may think, I want to start the flying lessons for my ratings as soon as possible.
But here comes the trouble:
I'm a middle-class boy, with divorced parents, and I don't have money to take the lessons. In addition, my parents are pushing me to attend to "SOME" University which obviously I don't want, 'cause we only have universities of math, medicine, law, etc and none related to aviation, except of one located 600 miles from here. Most of the best universities down here are free. My parents push me to attend to SOME of them in order I Don't "waste my time".
How come am i gonna attend to a subjet i don't and won't like anyways ?
Of course, we do have flying schools, but they are way expensive (like $ 100 an hour on a pa-28).
May be you don't figure out what the situation here is. I'll try to give you some clues.
Middle-class family income: $ 1200 - 1500
Minimum wage on a paid job without university degree (for a teen):
$ 100 - 250
Minimum wage on a paid job with university degree: $ 400 - 600
The point is that we are suffering unemployment near % 40, and it's nearly impossible to get a job.
As for me:
I have an aunt and uncle living in Clovis, California. I'm sure they are not willing to spend money on me to get my ratings up there. And if they would, I can't get a paid job in the states if I haven't the green card. Also, I could not get any reasonable job as an immigrant in the states to pay for my ratings.
My sister is living in Venezuela, where the flying cost of an hour on a pa-28 is the same as in the states.

My question is:
Since I’m getting desperate about start building my career, my dream, and I don't have any source of incoming money, what can I do in the meantime? I'm afraid to waste time. As I heard in many places, the sooner I get my ratings, the better.
Some thing is very true: being born in sub-developed country could cost you many tears.
If I said something I was wrong above, please correct me, and if you can contribute with some information or something to help me with this issue, i would really appreciate it.
Thanks in advance
Javier Gore (jgore).


Signed: Someone that wants to make his goal to the cockpit.
 

jgore

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Posts
8
Total Time
None
No, military training here is a waste of time. The goverment has no money to support it, thus the quality of education is poor.
Airlines down here rather civil-trained people rather than militay-trained ones.

jgore :)
 
Last edited:

JBHewlett

AOPA & EAA Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Posts
66
Total Time
280+
Hey Javier

Hey Javier it’s good to make your acquaintance. I am glad that you have taken such an interest in flying. Hopefully your dream will come true. It seems that becoming a career pilot can be hard for almost everyone in some way.

The above post asks a good question. Would military be an option there? Honestly if it would that would be the best road to take.
You do speak English. There is always the possibility of joining the United States Military. However you may need a degree to fly.

I am not sure how your degrees down there would carry over to the U.S. However if something can be worked out, you might try getting a degree in Math from your local University.

Look at the military as a vestige to develop your dream. It can pay off in the end.

Feel free to ask any questions, any time. Best of luck to you!
J.
 

JBHewlett

AOPA & EAA Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Posts
66
Total Time
280+
I apologize

I apologize for the post. I must have posted it after you had responded.

Is there anyway you could possibly talk with the University 600 miles away that does offer some form of flight training and get some ideas that way?

Is there anyway you can possibly track down and talk to some pilots down there to find out what road they took?

J.
 

jgore

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Posts
8
Total Time
None
JBHewlett

First of all, thanks for you time.
Look, i guess militaty training in the US is a viable option.
As for talking to the pilots down here, actually they built their carreers either on civil and military training in the beginning and late 80's, when the situation here was quite better, and the goverment had money to support military training.
In the other hand, i will stand and wont break apart.

jgore :)
 
3

350DRIVER

Welcome to this board- This appears to be a very interesting situation that you are in and I can only wish you the best of luck in making your dream become a reality........ I would highly consider the military, what other "viable" and "good" choice do you have left- I find it very hard to believe that your govt doesn't support its military (at all)and remember you will receive ALL training at their cost and get paid for it, seems like more of a wise choice to me than to "attempt" to find another way that may be impossible-

Your military flight training may not be like the US of A however I am sure they are just as proud of there military as we are AND sure they have a decent flight program that may be beneficial to you-

C H E E R S & G O O D L U C K

3 5 0
 

jgore

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Posts
8
Total Time
None
350DRIVER

Many many thanks for you optimism, but i'm pretty sure that the military here is almost with no activity.
If i only could tell you that i meet a C-5 Gallaxy captain and he told me that his wage was $ 800.......how come you wont belive this goverment isn't suppporting the military education ?.
Anyways, thanks.

jgore :)
 

dmspilot00

Independent
Joined
Feb 22, 2002
Posts
712
Total Time
300
jgore,

What subjects have you enjoyed in school? Are you sure you can't find something to study at one of those free Universities that you would like? I am not sure about the airlines in South America, but the ones here almost require college (University) education, but in ANY field. Maybe you could go to one of these to study a "fall-back" subject, meanwhile flying during the off periods or after you graduate?

Just a thought. Don't dismiss a traditional education. You may not realize it now, but flying isn't all there is to life. Good luck.
 

jgore

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Posts
8
Total Time
None
Delta3

I guess i can go to aviation college. Probabbly my uncle could help me. And regarding flight training ?

jgore :)
 
3

350DRIVER

I completely understand where you are coming from however in aviation sometimes you settle for a little less than the best at some point- The only thing that I was saying was look into the military route inside and out before you completely disregard it - A C-5 would be a very nice piece of equipment to be flying and even though the wages are not "impressive" as you have stated by talking to that captain on the bright side of the rainbow also consider that ALL his training was paid for which most likely saved him thousands, and he is flying a pretty impressive bird that the airlines seem to like when they hire pilots...... I don't know enough about your govt to make an assumption however I would leave no rock unturned and look into it from every angle

Whatever you decide I wish you the very best of luck- You may want to consider aviation grants, loans, work study programs, exchange programs and even scholarships that you may be able to secure due to the situation that you are in...- I will attempt to see about a few web sites that may be of interest to you

ALWAYS remember that I F there IS a WILL then there IS a WAY to make it happen and whatever you do keep at it-

C H E E R S

3 5 0
 

Brother Francis

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Posts
266
Total Time
9K-ish
Patience

There is an old joke:

A young bull and an old bull stand on a hill overlooking a herd of cows. The young bull, snorting and stamping says:

"Lets run down there and get us a cow!!!"

The old bull looks slowly over to the young one and says:

"Let's walk down there and get us all of them."

At 19, you have plenty of time to explore your options. First and foremost, absolutely positively get a college degree. A degree in math will carry a lot of weight.

Considering what I am paying to fund my son's education, I am astounded that it is free in Argentinaa. Jump on that with both feet. A college education will open many doors that will be closed in its absence, regardless of your pilot credentials. Also, when you do (and you will) interview for the airline job you desire, the college degree will be a competitive edge. A math degree will defeat a law or medical degree at the interview.

While you study, seek every opportunity to fly. Get a job fueling or washing airplanes. Meet people. They will help, just as we are trying to help with our responses to your question. Aviation is a family.

Explore every option; civil and military. Find and apply for any and every scholarship and loan you can locate. Spend every free moment searching for a source of funding for your pilot training. At the same time, pursue legal immigration status to the US.

If you are unable to complete your pilot training by the time you complete your education, your education will enable you to find a decent job in the US. Live with your relatives in CA and pay them room and board. Spend everything that is left over on pilot training. Or secure a loan.

By age 25 you will be marketable; leaving you 35 years as an airline pilot.

Never give up, never lose sight of the goal. Good luck, and welcome to the famliy.
 
Last edited:

JBHewlett

AOPA & EAA Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Posts
66
Total Time
280+
Javier all these are good ideas. Talk with your uncle, about the aviation college, and look into the U.S. military. Take all the oppurtunities that you come across and explore them to the fullest. Go after your dream by what ever methods necessary to secure it. Never lose sight of the dream. Weigh the options find whats best for you. The best may not be a necessity, so long as you get there.

Good luck to you,
J.
 

Timebuilder

Entrepreneur
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
4,625
Total Time
1634
I like the idea of the free math degree. A great basis for aviation study.

You have time on your side. Go to college.

You can learn a tremendous amount before you ever get in a plane. With a good job, and four years of math and self taught ground school, you will be fully prepared to ace your flight training.

Good luck.
 

chepito

Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2002
Posts
16
Total Time
2800
Jgore


I would strongly recomend the military, look into it. You have to look at it with a positive attitude. There may be a possibility that it could get better.
Go to the local airport. Try to meet people that way; you might run into someone that has an airplane and you can offer to wash the airplane for flight hours. I would also try to go to the local flight school and try to do the same thing.
You have to explore all possibilities; you are young.
Most importantly, never give up. Keep trying!
Good luck!
 

avbug

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2001
Posts
7,602
Total Time
n/a
Javier,

Formal flight training can be difficult no matter where you are. However, in your neck of the woods, local pilots are hired almost exclusively. You don't see gringo pilots or expats doing most of the flying; it's either local native talent, or talent from the area.

Get to know people with aircraft who can give you the opening you need. It may mean going to work for a crop dusting outfit, loading chemical or flagging fields. It may mean going to work as a mechanic or mechanic's assistant for a charter operator.

Find someone who has an airplane and who will help you out in exchange for your services. You may even be able to do this while attending a traditional college.

The hundred dollar an hour charges you mentioned are very typical of charges here in the United States, too. That's still a lot less expensive than many parts of the world. Given your financial circumstances, I would suggest getting help from the inside. Get to know someone with an airplane. I was in a similiar boat to you once; the only way I was able to learn to fly was a lot of hard work for people with an airplane over several years.

Dime con quien andas, y te diere quien eres. Si quere sera un piloto, tiene que ud. andar con pilotos. Buscarse los opportunidades volar cerca que se vive, sino que no tiene viajar a las distancias grandes para hallar volando. Bueno Suerte!
 

surplus1

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Posts
5,649
Total Time
25K+
avbug said:

Dime con quien andas, y te diere quien eres. Si quere sera un piloto, tiene que ud. andar con pilotos. Buscarse los opportunidades volar cerca que se vive, sino que no tiene viajar a las distancias grandes para hallar volando. Bueno Suerte!

Hey avbug,

As is mostly the case your advice is excellent, but your Spanish is atrocious. <BSEG> Noble effort though, I'm sure Javier will get the message.

Regards,

PS: Ever fly anything with the R-4360?
 
Last edited:

Vik

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 27, 2001
Posts
913
Total Time
69
jgore,

First, you seem to have a very good grasp of the English language. That is usually a huge problem for foreign students.

Second, you will need a university degree (Bachelor's) to get you a job in the U.S. A lot of people in the U.S., like myself, had to earn to pay for college *and* flight training. If you can get a 4 year degree in your home country for free, DO IT. Take courses year round and just finish it in 2-3 yrs if you can.

Since you have relatives in Clovis, Calif., if they are willing to let you stay with them, you already have your foot in the door.

Now the tricky part. Earning the money to pay for flying. I recommend you look into what type of labor the U.S. is importing. I think the big thing now is nurses and pharmacists. Study to become a nurse and you will get a visa to come work in the U.S. That way you will come to the U.S. with a job in hand and a method to pay for your flight training. You might not even need to live with your uncle and aunt.

This is no secret. People have been doing it for decades and when labor is in short supply, the U.S. imports it. It was software engineers a few years ago but not anymore. There are cycles for this stuff and you just need to find out what is needed.

None of this is going to happen overnight. I recommend you take advantage of a free university education and start right away. While you working on that, you can explore your other options.

You are only 19. Start work on your degree right away. There has to be a subject that you would study second to aviation. Physics? Engineering? Economics? computer science?

Your motivation to fly should help you do the work and get your degree because ultimately you will need it.
 

avbug

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2001
Posts
7,602
Total Time
n/a
Surplus,

My Spanish is a bastardized mixup of old high school classes, and living with various ethnic entities and nationalities. Imagine a Puerto Rican trying to do Castellano, if you will. If you think the grammar and spelling is bad, you should hear the accent. Something like Joey Buttafuco meets Ricardo Montalban.

The only thing I've been associated with that had a 4360 was the C-97. It was a great engine, for a museum. Working one with any degree of reliability, however, was a nightmare. Jug changes and engine fires were regular things. A jug change on something like the R-2600 was a cakewalk compared to getting to one on the 4360. No room to work, and unlike a single or twin row radial, it's packed in there solidly. Unless it's a front row cylinder, kiss your evening and night goodby.

When everything is running right, though, the 4360 is a smooth engine; no power pulses and very little vibration. Did you operate the corncob?
 
Top