The Brits show Americans the way. STRIKE!

[jonjuan]

Then your confused why alpa doesn't have the participation that Swapa has.

Swapa wouldn't have the leverage it has without Herb's influence, vision, or capitalism. You must have arrived at WN in the past 10 years. As such, you won the mini-lottery. Be just a little humble.....

 

[pilotyip]

Swapa wouldn't have the leverage it has without Herb's influence, vision, or capitalism. You must have arrived at WN in the past 10 years. As such, you won the mini-lottery. Be just a little humble.....

Nicely said, I remember the old days in the 90's guys at SWA were just happy to have job at SWA. Now it seems that might not be enought

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Here is an example of "reverse leadership"

Alaska Pilots Raise Funds, Distribute Checks to FurlougheesLast week, Alaska Airlines’ furloughed pilots received a holiday gift from their fellow pilots in the form of a check. In a little more than a month, Alaska Airlines’ pilots—joined by some of Alaska Airlines’ crew schedulers and planners and management—contributed $24,000 to the Furloughed Pilots Christmas Fund, the brainchild of Alaska First Officers Will McQuillen and Nate Chilman, who both were furloughed from a different carrier prior to coming to work at Alaska. When it began collecting funds in November, the Fund set a goal to raise enough to send every furloughed pilot $100. Instead, an overwhelming outpouring of support contributed enough to send more than twice that, or just over $230, to 103 of the 106 furloughed pilots. Three furloughed pilots who have found new jobs contacted the MEC and asked not to receive any of the money, requesting instead that their share be distributed among the other pilots on furlough.
“Our hope is that this gift will help make the holidays a little brighter for our fellow pilots and their families and will remind them that they remain in our hearts and minds as we enter the new year,” said Alaska furlough coordinator F/O Jeff Browand.

The reason why good things happen, is because an individual took the intiative. Not because they waited for someone to serve them......

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Leadership is nothing but influence. Anyone in a democracy has the ability to engage and influence others. Expecting or counting on others to influence for you (especially when you hasn't communicated is futile).

The ability to successfully influence with logic, reason and guidance is difficult. Just ensure that the difficulty is not ones own......

 

[waveflyer]

Apparently- you'd like to continue this conversation.

Tell you what- get flygirlqt to have dinner w/ me naked and we'll keep talking. Until then-alpa's your battle- and it's failings your problem.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Apparently- you'd like to continue this conversation.

It was something I thought of after my last post and a point I wanted to make....

Tell you what- get flygirlqt to have dinner w/ me naked and we'll keep talking.

That would be in accord with my post of effective influence... then again..I ain't pimpin'.

Until then-alpa's your battle- and it's failings your problem.

Well.... yeah... if we reject responsibility of our own problems whom do we blame for our circumstance?

 

[waveflyer]

Not dissing your point, just not my union. Do think that you're not recognizing the reality that most pilots are busy living their lives and have no desire to wrap themselves in union politics. If you do- then it is your challenge to figure out how to get people involved considering that reality.

I know pimpin's not easy, but c'mon man - do a little work for a brother..
;-)

 

[PCL_128]

You may say that ALPA's not your union, but the truth is, whether you're a member or not, ALPA is every pilot's advocate. ALPA is the only union that gets invited to speak for airline pilots at most government hearings, events, etc... CAPA occasionally gets a say, but that's pretty rare, and it only happens when they send either Sully or Skiles. Nobody would ever pay attention to Onorato. When it gets right down to it, ALPA is the voice of air line pilots, whether it's on Capital Hill, at ICAO, in the press, or just about anywhere else. Remember, SWAPA pushed for years for the Age 65 nonsense, but it got nowhere until ALPA made the move.

So, it may not be your union, but it is your voice outside of SWA. You have a vested interest in ALPA whether you pay dues or not.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Not dissing your point, just not my union. Do think that you're not recognizing the reality that most pilots are busy living their lives and have no desire to wrap themselves in union politics. If you do- then it is your challenge to figure out how to get people involved considering that reality.

Define busy living their lives? Does that mean taking advantage of a union contract that provides for days off and income to do what ones wishes? The classic is the union pilot who chides the the profession as he starts a second career from the days off and income the union contract provides. (not knocking anyone who does....)

It is no different than American citizens who enjoy the benefits of freedom and liberty without the responsibility of protecting and promoting it.

If the car isn't maintained sooner or later it will simply break down.

I know pimpin's not easy, but c'mon man - do a little work for a brother..
;-)

You've got a better audience than I. I would only diminish your chances....

 

[Lear70]

Tell you what- get flygirlqt to have dinner w/ me naked and we'll keep talking. Until then-alpa's your battle- and it's failings your problem.

I know pimpin's not easy, but c'mon man - do a little work for a brother..
;-)

I guess leg-humping is universal on ALL internet forums that are predominantly male with a few females who, often times, simply lurk so as to avoid said leg-humping...


imp:

:laugh:

 

[waveflyer]

I'm pretty sure flygirlqt can handle her own or I wouldn't be typing like that.
Not disagreeing with either of you- what I'm saying is that every organization needs a few chiefs who are disposed to that- and a lot of Indians. Disparaging the Indians for not being chiefs or aspiring to chiefs doesn't help your cause. Some ALPA groups function better than others-
but like usapa- if you wait til the Indians feel a pressing need to be involved- it's often a revolution- whether it's wise or not or if you like it or not.

If you want me to voice the one thing that pisses off most alpa members- it's this pushback on bad leadership - it's a no-brainer that leaders should lead. The fact that you can't concede that point even while I concede the point that members should participate- speaks volumes.

 

[pilotyip]

Remember all ALPA contracts are local in nature, that is why they are called locals.

 

[flygirlqt]

Apparently- you'd like to continue this conversation.

Tell you what- get flygirlqt to have dinner w/ me naked and we'll keep talking. Until then-alpa's your battle- and it's failings your problem.

I was a waitress at Hooters once and the pants still fit.

 

[Lear70]

I was a waitress at Hooters once and the pants still fit.

My ex-girlfriend was a Hooters girl.

Those shorts are pretty stretchy if memory serves...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I'm pretty sure flygirlqt can handle her own or I wouldn't be typing like that.

After the hooters comment you should be in heaven...

Not disagreeing with either of you- what I'm saying is that every organization needs a few chiefs who are disposed to that- and a lot of Indians. Disparaging the Indians for not being chiefs or aspiring to chiefs doesn't help your cause.

You are missing the point... any indian can be a chief. The way to be a chief is simply convince the indians that one is worthy of chief status.

The point is... democracy requires each "indian" to take on some responsbility. Neglecting the responsbility while expecting results that are of approval is a flaw.

Some ALPA groups function better than others-

Why is that?

but like usapa- if you wait til the Indians feel a pressing need to be involved- it's often a revolution- whether it's wise or not or if you like it or not.

Not sure USAPA eas a revolution rather than a coup.

If you want me to voice the one thing that pisses off most alpa members- it's this pushback on bad leadership - it's a no-brainer that leaders should lead.

Again... where to the leaders come from. Who says they are leaders? If a narcissist is elected and does worse than good, who is at fault? The narc should have never been there in the first place...

Again... participation rates in union and American democracy are a minority. At a MINIMUM, members/citizens should take their responsibility to ACT in a democracy seriously. Until they do, the leadership is place in position by a minority. How is that realistic?

The fact that you can't concede that point even while I concede the point that members should participate- speaks volumes.

It is the chicken/egg question.....

What comes first? Leaders or constituents?

Recall, leadership is nothing but influence. Anyone in a free and open organization is able to stand up and attempt to influence change.

Flygirl tries to do it on this webboard... but nothing changes. She is not influential... but a webboard is very ineffectual. The LEC meeting is THE format for democracy and change.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Remember all ALPA contracts are local in nature, that is why they are called locals.

CBAs governed by federal law.

 

[Lear70]

It is the chicken/egg question.....

What comes first? Leaders or constituents?

Leadership always comes first. That has been shown time and time again throughout history.

There is a need, someone finally says, "Fine, I'LL do it.", and rises to the challenge. If the leader is worth anything, others follow. Without followers (constituents), the leader fails.

It's not "the chicken or the egg", it's "are pilots willing to give up their time and provide support once a leader volunteers".

Recall, leadership is nothing but influence. Anyone in a free and open organization is able to stand up and attempt to influence change.

Flygirl tries to do it on this webboard... but nothing changes. She is not influential... but a webboard is very ineffectual. The LEC meeting is THE format for democracy and change.

And that's what YOU don't understand.

The LEC meeting accomplishes NOTHING if the followership (constituents) can't be bothered to attend. The message board, however, is EASY for the general line pilot to read and be influenced.

Case in point: AirTran and the last T.A. votes. I wasn't on the LEC/MEC/BoD, yet successfully lead a campaign that killed two T.A.'s and eventually lead to OTHER pilots recalling almost the entire elected MEC/BoD. I did it primarily via the message boards, the rest by being in Ops and circulating reading material that educated the pilots on the truths behind the lies the MEC/BoD was telling everyone.

The leadership at ALPA needs to realize (and I think many of them do) that the old method of relying on the membership to actively participate in local LEC/MEC meetings has become ineffective. Whether it's for lack of interest or simple laziness, I'm not here to say (and I think every airline is different in that respect so making a general, broad statement about the underlying cause of said apathy would be useless).

The goal of ALPA should now be to figure out how to energize a pilot group in the current era of e-commerce (LEC meetings recorded on video and available for download so the membership who couldn't be there CAN stay in the loop, thereby creating an interest to participate directly in one if they see a meeting go a way they don't want, etc).

You can't make things the way they were, all you can do is react to a changed environment appropriately. THAT'S Leadership.

 

[flygirlqt]

Flygirl tries to do it on this webboard... but nothing changes. She is not influential... but a webboard is very ineffectual. The LEC meeting is THE format for democracy and change.

This describes about 99% of your posts. You are a complete fool if you believe your endless pro ALPA diatribe sways the masses that feel disenfranchised. Democracy and change is not an inherit trait within ALPA.

 

[flygirlqt]

My ex-girlfriend was a Hooters girl.

Those shorts are pretty stretchy if memory serves...

They had to be for some of the cows that worked there. Still room with my fingers in between the waistband. Thank god for the Stairmaster.

 

[flygirlqt]

The leadership at ALPA needs to realize (and I think many of them do) that the old method of relying on the membership to actively participate in local LEC/MEC meetings has become ineffective. Whether it's for lack of interest or simple laziness,

Lack of effectiveness is also a factor. The bloated pay scales being paid from Prater on down are also not helping matters.