The British are Coming

[Bavarian Chef]

Full of LUV, nice post. Dropped bombs all over it back in 2001, that dude could be anywhere. Unbelievable desolation.

 

[flyburg]

Focus,

Yup, you are right, I generally don't post just read. However in bed with the flu bored out of my mind I was reading a post about virgin when suddenly it was about Osama. Don't take it personally I can sense BP rising again Francis.
Gr.

 

[LeonPhelps]

Gentlemen(and Captain Megadeath)...kinda new to the whole world of civilian aviation here, so maybe you can help me understand a thing or two. But, Virgin is listing their minimum requirements at 5,000 hours...and yet, people are applying in droves. It hardly strikes me as a bunch of kids with the "shiny jet syndrome" I've seen talked about. Being barely over halfway to 5,000 hours, that's no small amount. So, really the guys who are going to Virgin are not young, but actually experienced guys...and yet, they are still going in light of what people are describing as "peanut wages". I guess I'm just thinking out loud here, but it seems like people just want to fly for a living...regardless of pay scale. I guess it could be worse, we could be stockbrokers, and the jobs are totally lost to Etrade, Ameritrade, etc. It seems that until people have the cojones to just walk away and do something else(because they want to make some real smack), and dry up the supply side of the labor market, it will just keep on going. Then again, I'm probably just another MOTO(master of the obvious) here...

 

[Focus]

Full of Luv.....keep believing that BS......and sooner or later you will be walking that road......Dude.....We are the most sophisticated military power in the world. If we can not hunt down one man that walks the same face of the earth that we exist on then we are no better prepared for War then a Thirld World Country that wants to take us on....Get Real......Money Tal ks,,,,,,,Agents Walk and even I can say "Give me a Job"..... By the Way, no, I have never been to Afghan......If I did go I would be sure as hell to were a Pull Start..... Perhaps a Push Start would be better....Either way...I would hunt on the boarders of Afgan and Pak. Thats where he is at......my belief. Enough, before we give away his position.

 

[Focus]

Were,,,Ware,,Where......Sorry for the spelling....Anyways.....IM VENTING....... I just want the bazardo who inflicted pain upon my country....Im not trying to Hijack this thread, but is it not about foreign countries coming into our domicile. I can not believe that my elected officials would allow such a thing to happen while we are all still trying to rocover from the onslaught of one man whom we still can not find. HMMMMMMM

 

[flyburg]

but is it not about foreign countries coming into our domicile. I can not believe that my elected officials would allow such a thing to happen while we are all still trying to rocover from the onslaught of one man whom we still can not find. HMMMMMMM

Hmmmm...where to begin. How (for the love of god) do you compare a terrorist attacking the WTC with a foreign business entrepeneur starting a company in the states????

The current administration ( one I think you clearly prefer over the previous if I read you right) is a proponent of free enterprice. as a matter of fact, there are already hundreds, if not thousands of foreign owned company's in the states( banks, grocery markets, etc) as there are also hundred if not thousands of US owned company's abroad.

So far it has not migrated to airlines yet, but that is the next inevitable step. Soon US company's will also own airlines abroad.

So...please, don't compare, in any way, shape or form RB wanting to start an airline in the US (bye the way, investing money in the country that is stil trying to recover from the onslaught of one man) to the war on terrorism.

Okay, that's it. I'm outta here, not that bored to continue to react to your senseless rhetoric.

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Not wanting to hijack the thread but there are just a few points:

Virgin Blue hasn't really destroyed Australia; they filled a void, left when Ansett went down the tubes. Comparing the Australian aviation industry to the American is like comparing chalk and cheese. There are 20 million people in a country with the same land mass as the USA, 80% of which live on the east coast. In my opinion there is really only room for 2 large carriers, VB and Qantas do this well and give the paying public a choice: Full service or low cost. Virgin Blue do the LCC thing extremly well and actually give the public a good product when compared to LCC's here in the US and in Europe.

Qantas may or may not being doing well, depending on how clear your crystal ball is. They have continued to make profits and be shielded from the same factors that are now affecting the major flag carriers world wide, by a Govt. that views them as a national treasure. They are heavily unionised and stifled by some fairly draconian work-rules that would make the Teamsters proud.

In response to the VB threat and their monopoly Qantas formed a low cost subsidiary, Jet*. Think TED and you've got the right idea. The idea was to fight VB on a level playing field with low operating costs. The only problem is that now the Jet* pilots have been offered A330's and B787's at a pay scale of around 60% what an equivalent Qantas pilot would make. The end result could very well be that they fly routes taken over from Qantas and the Qantas pilots get whip-sawed in a major way.

WRT the America West comment, there were American pilots that flew during the strike of '89 but I don't see how that was the nail in Ansett's coffin, unless of course it took 14 years to happen.

Just the Ansett pilots coffin

 

[coogebeachhotel]

The Captain is correct.

QANTAS= Queensland And Northern Territories Air Service

O golly josh u r correct

 

[Lear70]

Gentlemen(and Captain Megadeath)...kinda new to the whole world of civilian aviation here, so maybe you can help me understand a thing or two. But, Virgin is listing their minimum requirements at 5,000 hours...and yet, people are applying in droves. It hardly strikes me as a bunch of kids with the "shiny jet syndrome" I've seen talked about. Being barely over halfway to 5,000 hours, that's no small amount. So, really the guys who are going to Virgin are not young, but actually experienced guys...and yet, they are still going in light of what people are describing as "peanut wages". I guess I'm just thinking out loud here, but it seems like people just want to fly for a living...regardless of pay scale. I guess it could be worse, we could be stockbrokers, and the jobs are totally lost to Etrade, Ameritrade, etc. It seems that until people have the cojones to just walk away and do something else(because they want to make some real smack), and dry up the supply side of the labor market, it will just keep on going. Then again, I'm probably just another MOTO(master of the obvious) here...

Shame on you Leon. Someone hijacked the thread and you tried to get it back on track. Don't you know the rules on thread hijacking yet?

Seriously, to answer your question of why people are applying in droves, it's really very simple.

There are 10,000 pilots on furlough from the majors, Indy, oh God, walk into a Home Depot in Minneapolis and you'll run into a 10,000 hour furloughed Northwest pilot. Add that to the 10,000 or so disgruntled "regional" pilots flying CRJ's, ERJ's, and turboprops who can't seem to score that major airline interview (FedEx, UPS, Southwest) and you'll see about 20,000 people looking at Virgin America thinking "F/O pay about $40k a year but if I get in within the first 18-24 months I'll only be at that pay for 4-6 months and I'll be making $80k a year at guarantee and be flying an Airbus instead of $60k in an RJ or on the street making nothing.

Supply and demand: there's NEVER been as many high-hour, high-experience pilots in need of jobs as there are right now. Virgin America is going to be able to cherry pick exactly who they want. I don't even think anyone without some inside contacts or some serious 320 time is even going to get a phone call anytime soon...

It's all about improving your Quality Of Life and, sad to say, as crappy as Virgin America will probably be given who's running the show, it'll still be better than working for Pinnacle or being unemployed.

 

[PHXFLYR]

That wasn't a joke. I really haven't seen a virgin in Atlanta for a long time....oh....you mean joking about the airline. Well, I figure I can't do anything about it so why lose sleep over it? If Branson doesn't do it, somebody else will. There will always be pilots willing to work for peanuts and there will always be management folks looking to make a buck and then cut and run. Then the cycle will begin anew.

That's the ol' spirit....stick your head in the sand and hope the problems just go away. You'll be singing a different tune when they price gouge you guys the way you did Delta several years ago. Isn't ATL one of the cities they are planning to serve?


PHXFLYR

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Picture of America West Scab plane in Australia http://www1.airpics.com/showimg.php?imgid=48875

 

[Focus]

As Americans we need to draw a line somewhere and I would think protecting our jobs, boarders, and freedom to live with liberty and justice for all is a pretty good place to start. Free Enterprise should be tightly controlled. As you know, nothing is Free in this World. Someone inevitably pays so I just say lets be sure that we as American Citizens stop paying with our Quality of Life so foreigners can reap the rewards of our economy.

If one can not make the connection between the Tax Money you spend fighting a War on Terror and the over all state of our Economy then this is a futile exchange of ideas. I was just venting the other night but perhaps more Americans need to vent to their Congressional Representatives. Our economy is being sold out right under our nose. What will be left for our children after we continue to sell away American Jobs. If this sounds senseless then I would only ask one thing; how is this so called Free Enterprise going to benefit the citizens of our great country in the future after they return home from fighting wars to find out that there are no jobs available as we have outsourced everything to the lowest bidder? We have enough competition right here in our own backyard. I hope this makes more sense.

 

[Focus]

No response as of March 16.....exactly what I expected......Lets get Real America..........We need leadership, we need diplomacy, and we already have the ARMY. What would you do as the leader of this country to establish ourselves as the Anchor Community for the next Decade.? President Bush, I acknowledge your leadership and what you have done so far.....I commend that sir if my commendation really merrits worth. As for the future I vote that President Billy Clinton be allowed to run this Great Country Economically for another Eight Years and that the Bush' run our military and protect us from Foreign Perpretrators. My vote is for Clinton/Bush....Now how is that for a decisive ticket. Thats my Vote.....

 

[Focus]

And another thing,,,,I really do hope the Eye in the Sky is Tuned in.....We need decisive leadership from both parties....Both Parties need to join together in this WAR ON Terrorism>.....We need the best our Country has at this decisive time in HISTORY. That to me means coming together and supporting one another dispite political differences. One Country, One Beat, One Heart, America the Beautiful.

 

[Focus]

Perhaps I should change my ticket to read Bush/Clinton; afterall you can not have a good economy without protection and President Bush has done one hell of a job in that arena.