The big vote. Any guesses?

[trainer8]

ALPA did not staple the MDA pilots. The neutral arbitrator is the one who decided MDA pilots were to be stapled. ALPA national stayed well clear of your seniority dispute and let you and the Westies settle it yourselves.

This, along with almost every East decertify argument I have heard, is misplaced blame...and I'm willing to bet that the many specific problems with ALPA that you have heard from these 20+ year captains are actually problems with the AAA MEC, or Nic, etc, not ALPA.

Look at it this way, if you were to go through the same seniority integration today with USAPA, instead of ALPA, your east representatives would have brought a seniority list with the MDA pilots on it just like the AAA MEC did...when the intergration goes to arbitration, Nic is still going to rule the same even though you are USAPA, because in his opinion, MDA pilots were furloughed. Different union logos, but same EXACT outcome.

AAA ALPA provided the list to George...a flawed list...a known to be flawed list.

 

[SaturnPilot]

AAA ALPA provided the list to George...a flawed list...a known to be flawed list.

the AAA MEC...Airways pilots...not ALPA national

 

[PCL_128]

And the list wasn't flawed.

 

[trainer8]

And the list wasn't flawed.

Oh, yes...it was. I was a dues paying, in good standing, active pilot. It said I was inactive and furloughed. That's flawed.

...
the AAA MEC...Airways pilots...not ALPA national

yeah, like I said...

T8

 

[PCL_128]

Oh, yes...it was. I was a dues paying, in good standing, active pilot. It said I was inactive and furloughed. That's flawed.

It's unlikely that the judge will see it your way.

 

[TWA Dude]

Well, you're missing the point, dude, the 'scope' clause of the CBA (contract) will determine if they were 'mainline' and if it is determined that they were; then they were 'denied' displacement/bidding rights, then the contract was violated. And, the point they are getting at is that alpa national, the mec and the company deliberately violated the contract, and alpa failed to represent/protect their rights under the contract; hence the lawsuit.

I'm really not in a position to say whether MDA violated the CBA. It is curious, however, that the lawsuit wasn't brought until MDA was being dismantled. There could also be a statute of limitations issue. The TWA pilots' lawsuit against AA and APA was dismissed for being stale for when it was filed some eight months after the APA announced their list. Our side argued unsuccessfully that the six month statute should've began after the new list was implemented but the judge disagreed. It just shows to go you that no matter how strongly you feel you've been wronged the legal system is still a game of chance.

The point I was getting at is the MetroJet and MDA were operated the same way, so how can one be 'Mainline' and the other NOT be??? Can you answer that??

As PCL and I have both pointed out, no, they weren't operated the same way at all. The differences are quite obvious. When MetroJet was disbanded were it's pilots allowed to bid/displace into the rest of the operation? Yes. The MDA pilots, most of whom were on furlough status from Mainline, returned to the street. Remember that in a court the plaintiffs have to prove by a preponderance of evidence that their case is true. There is some evidence that supports the "MDA was Mainline" theory (like the paint job) but much more that disproves it. And even if by some stretch a judge agrees with you even he won't overturn an arbitrated award. Such is the deference given to arbitrators, especially when it's revealed that Nicolau knew all about the circumstances around MDA.

 

[FR8mastr]

It's my opinion, too.

And more importantly, it was the ALPA EC's opinion, as well.
.

Oh, ALPA said so. I am so sorry I didn't realize that is what Herndon said. Well I stand corrected as we all know everything that comes from the DC area is truthful, with nothing but the utmost in integrity.

 

[FR8mastr]

Do you deny that they were supporting another union? Not even the reps themselves would deny that.

Really, so you have spoken with them?

 

[PCL_128]

Really, so you have spoken with them?

They were given the opportunity to express support for ALPA and deny support for uSAPa, and they chose not to. My understanding is that not one of the Council 41 reps even showed up to the meeting.

 

[trainer8]

They were given the opportunity to express support for ALPA and deny support for uSAPa, and they chose not to. My understanding is that not one of the Council 41 reps even showed up to the meeting.

This comment is so idiotic. They were notified on a Friday to appear on the following Monday in Herdon. This, after meeting with Prater the previous week and he said NOTHING to the three about trusteeship.

All three have asked for an opportunity to defend themselves but were DENIED that opportunity. This is public knowledge. The result has wasn't lost on the rest of the AAA MEC members as witnessed by the mass resignation of the BOS and PIT LEC reps, along with other key AAA MEC leadership positions because of this ALPA National strong arming. The resigntion letter come from pilots who have been involved in ALPA for 25+ years (so you can't say they they didn't try to change things) and their sentiment is all the same. "ALPA is broken. ALPA is corrupt." Devastating blow to ALPA and has pushed even more to the USAPA side.

Can't wait to vote.

T8

 

[johnnyb]

They were given the opportunity to express support for ALPA and deny support for uSAPa, and they chose not to. My understanding is that not one of the Council 41 reps even showed up to the meeting.



If you are referring to the EC meeting then they were told on Friday night to appear Monday morning.
The same day (Monday) the AAA MEC was meeting in CLT to elect our officers and committee leadership structure to 3 year terms.

 

[PCL_128]

If you are referring to the EC meeting then they were told on Friday night to appear Monday morning.
The same day (Monday) the AAA MEC was meeting in CLT to elect our officers and committee leadership structure to 3 year terms.

If my council was about to be placed into trusteeship, then I think would prioritize and go to the EC meeting rather than the MEC meeting. The MEC Officer elections can be delayed until the following day. But this isn't just about showing up at the EC meeting. Captain Prater told them that all they had to do was send a simple letter to Captain Couette that expressed their support for ALPA and their denouncing of uSAPa. They refused to do even that. They had their chance, and they refused to comply.

 

[pipe]

It'll be like an election in Iraq in the 90's or Iran now. ALPA will get 99% of the vote. Total number of votes will be 2-3 times the number of pilots at the combined carrier. Dead pilots will vote for ALPA several times apiece. Prater will declare victory and young men all over the industry will grow large moustaches in celebration of the victory.

PIPE

 

[Prog 2/2]

Oh, ALPA said so. I am so sorry I didn't realize that is what Herndon said. Well I stand corrected as we all know everything that comes from the DC area is truthful, with nothing but the utmost in integrity.

As opposed to the overwhelming integrity of the USAPA crowd. (Hint, just think "final and binding")

The point, bright spark, was that your "opinion" was of as little value as anyone else's.

The only one that counts didn't coincide with your's.

 

[Boeing747Driver]

Oh, yes...it was. I was a dues paying, in good standing, active pilot. It said I was inactive and furloughed. That's flawed.


T8

Aren't you a CEL Flowup?