The big vote. Any guesses?

[NuGuy]

50/50 and a revote, drawing out the agony another 6 months.

Heyas Lear,

Sadly, you are probably the closest.

No sides here, but my guess it will be close, but expect to hear HOWLS of protest from the ALPA side if USAPA wins. All sorts of claims of vote fraud and other mischief will come forth, and the loudest yelling will be from those who were on the "but those are rules" side of the arbitration debate, despite the fact that this is a properly held election under RLA/NMB rules.

Because, after all, rules are rules, until, um, the otherside wins or something.

Nu

 

[Tweaker]

ALPO - 2200
Pickleballerz - 1900
lots o' no voters (whom I respect the least)

 

[vetrider]

Heyas Lear,

Sadly, you are probably the closest.

No sides here, but my guess it will be close, but expect to hear HOWLS of protest from the ALPA side if USAPA wins. All sorts of claims of vote fraud and other mischief will come forth, and the loudest yelling will be from those who were on the "but those are rules" side of the arbitration debate, despite the fact that this is a properly held election under RLA/NMB rules.

Because, after all, rules are rules, until, um, the otherside wins or something.

Nu

By the strictest definition it is a legal and properly held election, but that is about it. The east is attempting to use their greater numbers to weasel out of honoring their commitments. Would you like to deal with folks like that?

How about lets all have double jeopardy all the time, in all facets of our lives, it would be cool. One could never count on anything, and it would all be legal and proper. Man that would be cool, loopholes and outs everywhere you go, so if you didn't like something, it wouldn't matter if you signed your name or not, just dump it and move on. Lets do it! Lets make this country great!

 

[Falconjet]

By the strictest definition it is a legal and properly held election, but that is about it. The east is attempting to use their greater numbers to weasel out of honoring their commitments. Would you like to deal with folks like that?

How about lets all have double jeopardy all the time, in all facets of our lives, it would be cool. One could never count on anything, and it would all be legal and proper. Man that would be cool, loopholes and outs everywhere you go, so if you didn't like something, it wouldn't matter if you signed your name or not, just dump it and move on. Lets do it! Lets make this country great!

Sounds just like what Congress wants to do with the mortgage "crisis".

Sorry for the thread creep.

Oh yeah, I have no prediction on the vote, but it won't break my heart if ALPA suffers a defeat. Not that I favor the East guys, I think they are pathetic. Its just that I think ALPA needs the wakeup call.

FJ

 

[Lear70]

Its just that I think ALPA needs the wakeup call.

FJ

Agreed...

Hope they get it and, more importantly, I hope someone over there WAKES UP!

I'm thinking it won't happen though. The majority of the guys who end up in senior ALPA levels are, big surprise, senior pilots who have manufactured things to keep THEIR "big picture" humming along with a minimum of interruption.

The "next generation" can fix their own problems after the current guys retire, right? :flippingbird:

edit: too bad, I was hoping that emoticon was loaded into the board html but burried so no one else could see it. Off a different board's html code...

 

[Freight Dog]

People who don't vote forfeit their right to bitch if things don't go their way.

I sure as hell hope every single Westie votes.

 

[NuGuy]

By the strictest definition it is a legal and properly held election, but that is about it. The east is attempting to use their greater numbers to weasel out of honoring their commitments.

I won't comment on the motivations, but if someone is going to say "rules are rules" about the arbitration, then you have to hold that same standard to the election, otherwise a person is just FoS.

Right or wrong, the USAir guys are following a path that is permitted by the RLA/NMB, which is the SAME set of rules that produced the arbitration result. You can't use the rules and then say "well, rules are rules" to make your point stick, and then get upset when someone else (despite their motivation) does the same thing.

Nu

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

, but it won't break my heart if ALPA suffers a defeat.

It will hurt everyone and simply make it easier for management/gov't/industry to demise the profession.

. Its just that I think ALPA needs the wakeup call.

FJ

ALPA does need a wake up call.... but not at the expense of the profession and everyone...



Anyone like the idea of Wyoming or Texas succeeding the USA? Would that help or hurt the country? How'd would we as Amercians be seen internationally if we can't keep our house together...


Yeah... alpa has problems... big problems... but splitting up isn't a solution...

 

[PositiveRate]

Well, the East was overly confident of being granted their demands in arbitration.

This is try #2, and again they are overly confident - speaking of an assured victory like it's already happened.

Reality has a way of slapping you in the face in a very indignified way. We'll see how this plays out.

I believe ALPA will win, but the more 'abstain' votes out East, the closer it will be. The West will be close to 95% or more for ALPA.

I haven't seen anything from USAPA that gives me any confidence that they are up to the task of representing and protecting 5000 pilots. That is a huge task and they will be starting at ground zero. My best guess is that a lot of people back East who submitted cards are well aware of this and their 'statement' was submitting the card, not intending to vote away all the protections of ALPA - the stuff none of us want to need....aeromedical, legal, certificate action, HIMS, etc. etc.

The only thing they can certainly provide is more labor strife (civil war), and delayed implimentation of combined operations. So a lot of folks are going to have to decide if they want to spend their remaining years with low pay, less protections and more strife - all that to make a statement for 'change' when change is, has, and always will be readily available through their own local ALPA leadership.

 

[AV80R]

... Anyone like the idea of Wyoming or Texas succeeding the USA? Would that help or hurt the country?...

It depends, if it was California and New York it'd probably help the country.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

It depends, if it was California and New York it'd probably help the country.

Maybe CA... but NY? Wall Street alone is too valuable...

 

[Prog 2/2]

Because, after all, rules are rules, until, um, the otherside wins or something.

Nu

The new USAPA motto ?

or is it still-

"Final and binding, unless we don't like the outcome"

 

[Bad-Andy]

My best guess is that a lot of people back East who submitted cards are well aware of this and their 'statement' was submitting the card, not intending to vote away all the protections of ALPA - the stuff none of us want to need....aeromedical, legal, certificate action, HIMS, etc. etc.

More likely than trying to make a statement are the quiet ALPA supporters that just want to get the vote over with, so they submitted cards. (A couple guys I've talked to so far told me that's what they did...)

 

[vetrider]

I won't comment on the motivations, but if someone is going to say "rules are rules" about the arbitration, then you have to hold that same standard to the election, otherwise a person is just FoS.

Right or wrong, the USAir guys are following a path that is permitted by the RLA/NMB, which is the SAME set of rules that produced the arbitration result. You can't use the rules and then say "well, rules are rules" to make your point stick, and then get upset when someone else (despite their motivation) does the same thing.

Nu

I see your point, but I still don't think its nearly the same thing. The "rules" both east and west played under up to and including the arbitration were signed on to consensually by the two pilot groups, each group fully aware that their own idea on what should happen might not come to fruition.

Now, the east sees a loop hole and has an opportunity to not only back out, but to potentially back out and put the screws to the group with the smaller numbers. Yea, the rules allow it, but in my opinion it is less than upstanding and ethical. Just think if everyone acted that way that you did business with. Wouldn't that be just dandy?

Usapa's intentions have been made clear. Screaming about usapa should they win is very different than the screaming the east is doing now.

That being said, the sun will come up the following day, whatever happens come the 17th.

 

[Turtle21]

..., but expect to hear HOWLS of protest from the ALPA side if USAPA wins. All sorts of claims of vote fraud and other mischief will come forth, ..

From:Richard P.
Sent:Saturday, March 08, 2008 9:59 PM
To:'Jack S.
Cc:'....

Subject:Fin

Dear Jack: Please accept this resignation of my position of Captain Representative for Council
32. After much deep soul searching during the past few days, I have come to the conclusion that ALPA as
well as the MEC is broken beyond repair.

In my 33 years in ALPA, I have been on several committees, paid many assessments, fought the
People Express war,walked Eastern picket lines and TWA F/A lines. I also picketed the White House
when Bond was threatening to jail us for violations. This is not the same ALPA. ALPA used to have men
of honor. Now it’s all secret mini-meetings in someone’s room, power tripsand backstabbing.

When the true talent begins to leave one by one, seemingly a different one every day, as well
as the taking out of nearly irreplaceable committee members simply so you can put your hopelessly
clueless friend in the position strains credibility. I cannot represent my pilots in such a poisonous
atmosphere. An atmosphere where even the man who ran against me in Boston has resigned all his
positions.

The future holds a different path for me and I will ask myfellow pilots to join me on that path.

This resignation is effective on receipt.

Sincerely,
Richard
ALPA #04.....
Council 032 Chairman