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The best UPT base?
- Thread starter SMan
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80drvr said:
Yeah, I knew a guy like that and he was well into being a 1LT by the time he finally got winged. Maybe things have changed but as of two years ago the Navy route was a much slower process. Pensacola is obviously a better location than Enid/Columbus/Del Rio but it will take you twice as long to get through and I assume your goal is to get to that fighter as soon as possible. I experienced both...the Air Force for T-37's and the Navy for T-44's... the Air Force runs a much more efficient operation. Just something to think about.
Shooter38
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I have to agree with Albie, all work and no play is not the way to make it through the tough year of UPT. Your wife will appreciate having the option to do more while you are busy studying. That being said, Sheppard has a lot more to offer at ~100k vs ~35k at the other bases. I don't know how much F16fixer got out during mx school, but as a previous ENJJPT student (and being stuck at every UPT base in the T-38), I would have to say you will have a lot more fun on the weekends at Sheppard. I don't know where you live now, but you'll be surprised at how much you take for granted if you end up at Columbus, Laughlin or Vance which is where I have been a T-38 IP for 3+ yrs. Getting a Chili's was big news for months here, and last I checked Columbus and Laughlin still don't have one. Of course we don't have a Wendy's, an Olive Garden, Red Lobster....you get the point. We only had a 2 screen movie theater till about a year ago!
As for the training I think it is a wash at Columbus, Laughlin or Vance, but I would give the edge to Sheppard where you will get to fly with NATO IPs, the fighter experience is higher (less FAIPS), and you get more total sorties with emphasis added on 4 ship and advanced formation. You may not have to move for IFF.
As for Pensacola, it is a fun town with lots to do, but tack on up to six extra months for the 'same' training after which you will have to move to one of the other 4 bases which may be a pain for the family (and maybe again for IFF if you don't get Sheppard). You will also show up to T-38s behind the T-37 students in EPs, Stand Ups, and AF regs.
Any way you cut it, you are going to be getting paid to fly jets!
As for the training I think it is a wash at Columbus, Laughlin or Vance, but I would give the edge to Sheppard where you will get to fly with NATO IPs, the fighter experience is higher (less FAIPS), and you get more total sorties with emphasis added on 4 ship and advanced formation. You may not have to move for IFF.
As for Pensacola, it is a fun town with lots to do, but tack on up to six extra months for the 'same' training after which you will have to move to one of the other 4 bases which may be a pain for the family (and maybe again for IFF if you don't get Sheppard). You will also show up to T-38s behind the T-37 students in EPs, Stand Ups, and AF regs.
Any way you cut it, you are going to be getting paid to fly jets!
Apologize for the overkill!!
Sman,
I'm sure you could and will make the most of it if you go to Sheppard, the only thing I was trying to say is if really have a choice and you can go some where like Florida I would probably jump on it. I work with a lot of guys that tell me they had a blast there. I guess just remember why your going in the first place and be grateful for getting the chance. Thanks again for all your advice you've given to me.
Sman,
I'm sure you could and will make the most of it if you go to Sheppard, the only thing I was trying to say is if really have a choice and you can go some where like Florida I would probably jump on it. I work with a lot of guys that tell me they had a blast there. I guess just remember why your going in the first place and be grateful for getting the chance. Thanks again for all your advice you've given to me.
SMan
Active member
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- Dec 6, 2001
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- 35
It sounds like Sheppard would be a great option for UPT. Are the class sizes typically smaller then the other UPT bases since they are handing out fighters/bombers? If so, how much smaller? I understand that the usual class size at the other UPT bases are 20-30 students, correct?
Also, it seems like the competition would be tougher among students for class rank, etc. since it's tough to get chosen for ENJJPT and "supposedly" higher quality candidates are the ones selected to go there?
SMan
Also, it seems like the competition would be tougher among students for class rank, etc. since it's tough to get chosen for ENJJPT and "supposedly" higher quality candidates are the ones selected to go there?
SMan
another thing to think about
Training in the Navy is much more laid back than the AF......Having experienced both T-37's with AF and T-44 with Navy..........With this said, it will be a huge culture shock going from Navy training to AF training.....I seriously would consider staying AF, it'll get you in the right frame of mind for your training years...those years can be pretty tought and you might as well bite the bullet and focus on it now....(I dont' know about you, but a perfect sunny day in Florida, with Fort Walton Beach just down the road...hmmm, I doubt you would find me studying...) Not to mention if you show up to the next school, which is AF, and act like you do when training in the Navy, you'll get jacked up so far you won't know what hit you........I'd just start out AF and train AF......besides, stories I've heard about the T-34 (I believe that's what it is...).....Now, of course if you were going Navy, it would be a completly differnent story..
The previous post about learning the AF way is right on...........The Navy tells you what you can't do...The AF loves to tell you every little thing you can...The regs in the AF are a zillion times larger than that in the Navy....I would get started now on learning them.......lol.....that is if you can read and understand lawyer talk.....I tell you, if they could hire a private company to sort through all of them and re-write them, they would be half the size.....( If A exsists, and B doesn't, but if C exsists and B exsits then Z, but if C exsists and B doesn't, but A exsits, then T, but if T exsits and A exsists then just forget it.....) now if you understood that you'll do just fine.......LOL....
Training in the Navy is much more laid back than the AF......Having experienced both T-37's with AF and T-44 with Navy..........With this said, it will be a huge culture shock going from Navy training to AF training.....I seriously would consider staying AF, it'll get you in the right frame of mind for your training years...those years can be pretty tought and you might as well bite the bullet and focus on it now....(I dont' know about you, but a perfect sunny day in Florida, with Fort Walton Beach just down the road...hmmm, I doubt you would find me studying...) Not to mention if you show up to the next school, which is AF, and act like you do when training in the Navy, you'll get jacked up so far you won't know what hit you........I'd just start out AF and train AF......besides, stories I've heard about the T-34 (I believe that's what it is...).....Now, of course if you were going Navy, it would be a completly differnent story..
The previous post about learning the AF way is right on...........The Navy tells you what you can't do...The AF loves to tell you every little thing you can...The regs in the AF are a zillion times larger than that in the Navy....I would get started now on learning them.......lol.....that is if you can read and understand lawyer talk.....I tell you, if they could hire a private company to sort through all of them and re-write them, they would be half the size.....( If A exsists, and B doesn't, but if C exsists and B exsits then Z, but if C exsists and B doesn't, but A exsits, then T, but if T exsits and A exsists then just forget it.....) now if you understood that you'll do just fine.......LOL....
bigr
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- Nov 27, 2001
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- 142
I'm a little curious. In the mid 80's I got a pilot slot in the Navy and promptly got the NAMI WHAMI (Navy speak for not physically qualified).
Anyway, back then training was in T-34, T-6, TA-4. But the Air Force was completely different, at different bases. My question is why do the Navy train Air Force Pilots? Do they get Carrier qualed?
Just curious and good luck for you all.
Anyway, back then training was in T-34, T-6, TA-4. But the Air Force was completely different, at different bases. My question is why do the Navy train Air Force Pilots? Do they get Carrier qualed?
Just curious and good luck for you all.
I went to Laughlin, and if I had it to do over again, I'd try to go to any base that isn't in Del Rio! The town is small and dirty, the border town (Acuna) is filthy, and the Corona club and Ma Crosby's gets old quick. San Antonio is a good 3 hour drive away, and its so full of Air Force that picking up women out there is challenging at best (which is why my friends and I started driving the extra hour to Austin).
If I were you, I'd try to go to Moody AFB in Valdosta, GA. My brother is stationed out there, and the area is very nice. Its a college town right across the border from Florida and some good spring break spots, and Atlanta and Jacksonville are both within relatively easy driving distance. They also fly the T-6 out there (sweet plane), and they are getting the T-38C (glass cockpit upgreade).
If I were you, I'd try to go to Moody AFB in Valdosta, GA. My brother is stationed out there, and the area is very nice. Its a college town right across the border from Florida and some good spring break spots, and Atlanta and Jacksonville are both within relatively easy driving distance. They also fly the T-6 out there (sweet plane), and they are getting the T-38C (glass cockpit upgreade).
Yahtzee
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ANG & USAFR Fighter Hopefuls
Sman & all the other ANG / USAFR fighter hopefuls:
Some points to consider.
First, find out which base trains USAF pilots in T-38, after they have trained in the T-34. I believe Vance is the only base that does this. I would be interested to see the attrition (wash-out) rates in T-38s broken down by the students who flew T-37s versus T-34s. Moving from one base to another between phases will only add more stress, and length to the training phase. The students who continue to the T-38 from the same base will have a slightly easier time initially as they should be familiar with the base, and the strict AF culture after having flown T-37s for nearly five months. This is just one more reason to avoid the T-34 IMHO.
Second, I am fairly confident the Navy trains navigators at Pensacola, while the pilots train about 20 miles north at NAS Whiting. (Whiting's near PCola, but it ain't PCola).
Third, and most importantly, wherever you go, give it your all! I can't tell you how many ANG or USAFR pilots lose their fighter slots and end up in the T-1 after they struggle in T-37s.
We have two of these studs in our flightroom right now. You will never get to your fighter if you struggle in T-37s. However, this isn't a reason to avoid the T-37 or T-6 as I don't know one single F-15 or F-16 pilot who thougt UPT was tougher than his fighter training. If if was easy, everybody would do it.
"Life is tough. It's tougher if your stupid." UPT is tougher if you choose to procrastinate, if don't have a great work effort, and if you aren't focused. Please understand, your fighter isn't a guarantee. Some ANG/ USAFR students somehow never get this message. You will earn the right to fly the T-38 as an ANG or USAFR student.
Just remember why you are going to SUPT and you will have a blast. Like Albie and Shooter38 said...it is about balance. You have to work hard, then blow off some steam on Friday & Saturday. UPT isn't a vacation;it's a formal training course that demands much (or at least it did in the early 90s).
The bottom line is this: if you don't have your $h!T together in UPT, chances are you won't have it together in your RTU (follow on training base) such as Tyndall (F-15s) , DM (A-10s), Luke (F-16s), or any other F-16 RTU that stands up.
For the record: Some of my best friends (& college roomates) are IPs in fighters, F-16s and A-10s. (Did actually write that?
) Notice that I do not mention F-15C guys anywhere in that statement. Actually, I have several F-15 friends too, but try not to admit this is public forums. It's embarrasing.
Just control what you can. If it's meant to be it will be.
Good Luck!
Sman & all the other ANG / USAFR fighter hopefuls:
Some points to consider.
First, find out which base trains USAF pilots in T-38, after they have trained in the T-34. I believe Vance is the only base that does this. I would be interested to see the attrition (wash-out) rates in T-38s broken down by the students who flew T-37s versus T-34s. Moving from one base to another between phases will only add more stress, and length to the training phase. The students who continue to the T-38 from the same base will have a slightly easier time initially as they should be familiar with the base, and the strict AF culture after having flown T-37s for nearly five months. This is just one more reason to avoid the T-34 IMHO.
Second, I am fairly confident the Navy trains navigators at Pensacola, while the pilots train about 20 miles north at NAS Whiting. (Whiting's near PCola, but it ain't PCola).
Third, and most importantly, wherever you go, give it your all! I can't tell you how many ANG or USAFR pilots lose their fighter slots and end up in the T-1 after they struggle in T-37s.
We have two of these studs in our flightroom right now. You will never get to your fighter if you struggle in T-37s. However, this isn't a reason to avoid the T-37 or T-6 as I don't know one single F-15 or F-16 pilot who thougt UPT was tougher than his fighter training. If if was easy, everybody would do it.
"Life is tough. It's tougher if your stupid." UPT is tougher if you choose to procrastinate, if don't have a great work effort, and if you aren't focused. Please understand, your fighter isn't a guarantee. Some ANG/ USAFR students somehow never get this message. You will earn the right to fly the T-38 as an ANG or USAFR student.
Just remember why you are going to SUPT and you will have a blast. Like Albie and Shooter38 said...it is about balance. You have to work hard, then blow off some steam on Friday & Saturday. UPT isn't a vacation;it's a formal training course that demands much (or at least it did in the early 90s).
The bottom line is this: if you don't have your $h!T together in UPT, chances are you won't have it together in your RTU (follow on training base) such as Tyndall (F-15s) , DM (A-10s), Luke (F-16s), or any other F-16 RTU that stands up.
For the record: Some of my best friends (& college roomates) are IPs in fighters, F-16s and A-10s. (Did actually write that?
) Notice that I do not mention F-15C guys anywhere in that statement. Actually, I have several F-15 friends too, but try not to admit this is public forums. It's embarrasing. Just control what you can. If it's meant to be it will be.
Good Luck!
T1bubba
Well-known member
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- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 317
Navy Training
All the discussion about guard and reserve pilots going to training in Pensacola is a moot point, the USAF only sends active duty folks there.
bigr- the reason for all the joint training is simple: congress passed a law saying that fixed-wing primary training WOULD be consolidated. The original idea was that when the T-6 arrived they could come up with one syllabus for everyone, and eventually all pilot training bases would be joint. Fortunately the higher-ups came to their senses, and the last I heard the joint training will continue as is (USAF going to T-34s Whiting and T-44s Corpus, and USN going to T-37s and T-1s at Vance) when the T-6 arrives.
USAF student pilots don't carrier qual. The fighter (T-45 and T-38) programs aren't joint.
T1bubba
All the discussion about guard and reserve pilots going to training in Pensacola is a moot point, the USAF only sends active duty folks there.
bigr- the reason for all the joint training is simple: congress passed a law saying that fixed-wing primary training WOULD be consolidated. The original idea was that when the T-6 arrived they could come up with one syllabus for everyone, and eventually all pilot training bases would be joint. Fortunately the higher-ups came to their senses, and the last I heard the joint training will continue as is (USAF going to T-34s Whiting and T-44s Corpus, and USN going to T-37s and T-1s at Vance) when the T-6 arrives.
USAF student pilots don't carrier qual. The fighter (T-45 and T-38) programs aren't joint.
T1bubba
Come on Down to Moody Maan
T-6s are much more enjoyable to fly than the Tweet. GPS, FMS, Glass Cockpit and Flys like a Fighter (Except at Tweet Speeds).
The Transition from T-6s to T-38s is alot better and Moody right now is the place to be. Sweet Tea and Atlanta Braves
Laughlin will start training in T-6s in Nov. So you have that option.
I'm an East of the Mississippi type of Guy though.
T-6s are much more enjoyable to fly than the Tweet. GPS, FMS, Glass Cockpit and Flys like a Fighter (Except at Tweet Speeds).
The Transition from T-6s to T-38s is alot better and Moody right now is the place to be. Sweet Tea and Atlanta Braves
Laughlin will start training in T-6s in Nov. So you have that option.
I'm an East of the Mississippi type of Guy though.
Spur
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2002
- Posts
- 214
Opie,
I know this is a little off thread, but I heard that after the Randolph T-6 crash that Raytheon was gonna come up with a "fix" to the onboard oxygen generating system so that in the event of an engine failure you wouldnt have to either (a) nearly suffocate (b) drop your mask, or (c) pull the green apple. Did that ever happen?
Also, whats your cruise TAS? Faster than the tweet?
Thanks,
Spur
I know this is a little off thread, but I heard that after the Randolph T-6 crash that Raytheon was gonna come up with a "fix" to the onboard oxygen generating system so that in the event of an engine failure you wouldnt have to either (a) nearly suffocate (b) drop your mask, or (c) pull the green apple. Did that ever happen?
Also, whats your cruise TAS? Faster than the tweet?
Thanks,
Spur
maverick_fp00
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- Jan 7, 2002
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- 247
Sonic Cruzer
FLY BOEING!
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T-6 Questions
OPIE01 et al,
We're kind of getting off topic here, but I should be heading off to UPT next spring (AFRes sponsored C141). Maybe I'll luck out and get Laughlin/T-6s.
I think it would be a blast to fly tandem, but I can imagine the T-6 has a lot of torque/P-factor to deal with? (versus say the T-34 which has that engine offset to help pilots compensate for the torque) How are aerobatics in the T-6 compared to the Tweet? At high AOA, do students' feet wear out before their stomaches?
Being that I flight test avionics for a living, I'm curious to know what sort of Nav/Approach capabilities the EFIS/FMS suite has. Does the FMS work anything like a Smiths/Pegasus or is it something much simpler?
Andrew
OPIE01 et al,
We're kind of getting off topic here, but I should be heading off to UPT next spring (AFRes sponsored C141). Maybe I'll luck out and get Laughlin/T-6s.
I think it would be a blast to fly tandem, but I can imagine the T-6 has a lot of torque/P-factor to deal with? (versus say the T-34 which has that engine offset to help pilots compensate for the torque) How are aerobatics in the T-6 compared to the Tweet? At high AOA, do students' feet wear out before their stomaches?
Being that I flight test avionics for a living, I'm curious to know what sort of Nav/Approach capabilities the EFIS/FMS suite has. Does the FMS work anything like a Smiths/Pegasus or is it something much simpler?
Andrew
Opie-wan
Member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2002
- Posts
- 21
Sonic--
Aerobatics in the T-6 is a lot in the T-37, except you don't have to climb up after a few minutes of it to regain energy like in the tweet. In fact, you often have to knock it off to keep from going out the top of your working area.
After 6 years in the tweet, and 3 in the T-6--the T-6 wins hands-down....No comparison.
Go to Laughlin or Moody to the T-6 if you are going Air Force...
Aerobatics in the T-6 is a lot in the T-37, except you don't have to climb up after a few minutes of it to regain energy like in the tweet. In fact, you often have to knock it off to keep from going out the top of your working area.
After 6 years in the tweet, and 3 in the T-6--the T-6 wins hands-down....No comparison.
Go to Laughlin or Moody to the T-6 if you are going Air Force...
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