Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

The Best Plane for 10M.

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
pilotviolin

pilotviolin

God, your sky is so big;
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Posts
108
Starting to do some research on airplanes with a budget around 10M. What gives you the best bang for the buck. We need to make Hawaii and hold a big group of people.

Let be realistic. We need something that has low operating costs (no GII's or III's). The only plane so far I can think of is a 601-1A/3A/R. Any thoughts? How about putting in a new glass cockpit (Proline 21, EPIC, Universal) in one?
Thanks
 
How about a used Falcon 50 or even a Jetstar? Sure, a Jetstar uses a lot of gas, but the upfront savings of $2-3 million vs. a comparable aircraft will pay for a lot of gas......
 
Our Falcon 2000 has 794 Hours, and 834 Landings in five years. Used regularly to fly within the state of Texas. Not that unusual to see this in the corporate world.

Makes my suitcase very small relative to the size of the airplane!
 
johnsonrod said:
How about a used Falcon 50 or even a Jetstar? Sure, a Jetstar uses a lot of gas, but the upfront savings of $2-3 million vs. a comparable aircraft will pay for a lot of gas......
Click to expand...


Ill agree about the Falcon 50 part. But the only thing a jetstar is good for is........ Well I cant think of anything...
 
I doubt the Hawker is a good Hawaii airplane, and I am not good to look at a jetstar. Falcon 50 has great range but small cabin.
I would really like to hear what some Challenger operaters think. There are a few that have 12 pax interiors. Is there are great payload vs. range penalty? Thanks.
 
pilotviolin said:
Starting to do some research on airplanes with a budget around 10M. What gives you the best bang for the buck. We need to make Hawaii and hold a big group of people.

Let be realistic. We need something that has low operating costs (no GII's or III's). The only plane so far I can think of is a 601-1A/3A/R. Any thoughts? How about putting in a new glass cockpit (Proline 21, EPIC, Universal) in one?
Thanks
Click to expand...


Plenty of good CL airframes out there...and Universal has some great panel retrofits for those birds.
 
G100driver said:
This is a great airplane to take a big group to Hawaii (or anytime for that matter) .... if you were CRAZY!!

Challenger or Falcon 50 are the ONLY airplanes that will fit this bill for under $10 million if you are unwilling to look at GIII.

The G200 is too pax limited in strong winds.
Click to expand...

That is what I thought too. I think we really need to increase the budget by 5M to 15M. Is that a more realistic number?
 
For Hawaii? Yes, I think 15M is a more realistic number.

When you say a "big group", what do you mean? Is 9 seats not enough?
 
pilotviolin said:
That is what I thought too. I think we really need to increase the budget by 5M to 15M. Is that a more realistic number?
Click to expand...

You can get a CL-601 in the $10 million range but the MX is pretty heavy and operating costs are expensive.

You cannot go wrong with the 50 unless the cabin is too small for your group. Why not a G-III. It is still a great airplane.
 
With a little effort you could find a nice DA-50, do the Proline 21 upgrade, and do the paint and interior and come in right around $10 million give or take. It would be a hard act to follow.
 
How many passenger seats can you comfortably stuff into a Falcon 50 or a 601? Are either aircraft suitable for shorter trips of say 1000-1200NM? I am assuming that the hourly cost of operation would be in the $4-5000.00 range? I don't think my company has the means for such an aircraft, but one of the partners is asking me what is available to haul more than 8-9 pax at a time.
 
$4-5K an hour .... for charter. If you want to look at straight DOC's then between 1800-$2200 hour depending on who you ask.

8 pax into a 601 and 6 or so into a 50 (comfortably).
 
AerroMatt said:
How many passenger seats can you comfortably stuff into a Falcon 50 or a 601? Are either aircraft suitable for shorter trips of say 1000-1200NM? I am assuming that the hourly cost of operation would be in the $4-5000.00 range? I don't think my company has the means for such an aircraft, but one of the partners is asking me what is available to haul more than 8-9 pax at a time.
Click to expand...

Most 50's are set up for 9 pax max and even then, it's a tight fit. It's certified for more, but you'd need a hight-density seating config installed.

You'll find most Challenger's are set up for 9 to 12 pax. And since it's a wide-body, if you carry that many from time to time on shorter trips, it's more than doable.

Have fun.
 
ultrarunner said:
Most 50's are set up for 9 pax max and even then, it's a tight fit. It's certified for more, but you'd need a hight-density seating config installed.

You'll find most Challenger's are set up for 9 to 12 pax. And since it's a wide-body, if you carry that many from time to time on shorter trips, it's more than doable.

Have fun.
Click to expand...


The reason for bringing on a second airplane is one that can do the long trips (Hawaii), and more people. Right now our 'light jet' we almost always fly seats full (7) and at least a few trips a month we use the potty seat(8). The 12 pax interior of the 601 is what we are looking at.


In the past we have demoed a Legacy 600, but the cost for the owner at the time was enough that he would put it on a 135 certificate in another state. (of course it was the sales man who told him he could make good money doing it. It would fly atleast a 100 hrs a month according to him.) Lucky he did not go through with it. We want something that we do 100% on 91, and not be sunk by mx. We have always bought new which is also another factor we are concerned about.


Lets talk about real cost of the 601 and is its mx? Also how much does the a Proline upgrade cost?
 
I've been told that you will develop dependability problems with mosts avionics upgrades on oolder airframes like the 601. And I think the 601s tended to be a little unreliable to begin with....someone knows more about this than I do I'm sure....anyone?

If you're stepping into the 15m range the G-machines sound like a perfect fit. Why can't you consider those?
 
For the mission you are describing, and the budget you are describing, the airplane you need is a GIII.

The total annual budget for operating a GIII won't be that much more than operating a 601 (even though fuel will be more expensive), and you'll save several million on acquisition.

Plus, if this is an additional airplane and you'll be keeping your light jet for shorter trips, the GIII makes even more sense as you'll presumably not be flying it a huge number of hours per year. Any savings from fuel on the 601 will be even less important.

Of course, perhaps psychology is at play? Sometimes people want what they want, regardless of what is the best actual fit for their needs.

If that's the case, get the Falcon 50 and tell a couple of people to take the airlines. The 50 has the best looks, most fun to fly, and a very reasonable ramp presence.
 
OK, is anyone willing to send me the C&D #'s for the 601 and the GIII? Since my missions would be almost exclusively to Mexico, I could tanker up on cheap Jet-A and maybe make this sound plausible to my company for a future aircraft.
 
I agree with Some Dude. For what you have described as trips, the G-III is the ticket. For planning purposes the yearly operating cost is around 1 mil.
Doing Hawaii is not a problem even with head winds of 100kts. Fill it up in Oakland and keep going. The dependability of a whiz is worth the bucks. It works well on short hauls. Uses a lot more fuel, but fill it up with pax and it does not know the difference. Look at the AC models. What you have to keep in mind is the noise factor. If you fly it using the noise abatement procedures you will have no problems. This is also an airplane that comes with a manual on tankering fuel. Shop wisely for fuel and you you can save money there.
Good luck
 
I'd have to second that. If 12+ folks is a must, then a GIII can't be beat. A good number of those birds are set up for 14 pax. While no expert on the airfame, having flown similar stuff, look for a good AC bird. There are several out there and a fair amount of GIII airframes have already been modified with modern EFIS displays and FMC systems.

I would think you could have a great machine for well under 10M.
 
for $10M you could buy 3 sabre-65's. Great Aircraft for 1500-2000nm legs, Also an inflight APU and .82 to boot. Great bird, she's just a dyin' breed.
 
Of course, there aren't that many other airplanes where you need to buy 3 just to have the parts to keep one running!

blzr said:
for $10M you could buy 3 sabre-65's. Great Aircraft for 1500-2000nm legs, Also an inflight APU and .82 to boot. Great bird, she's just a dyin' breed.
Click to expand...
 
some_dude said:
Of course, there aren't that many other airplanes where you need to buy 3 just to have the parts to keep one running!
Click to expand...


There are plenty of parts, just owned by 2 companies in St louis and they keep the prices fairly high.

I'll bet you $100 our 28 year old Sabre-65 will still be flying long after most of those new CJ's and lear 40 models are scrap metal.

I would bet you it's the best plane and the MOST plane for the buck.
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

SS at RC.PNG
Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom