The Amazing Kreskin

[Hawkered]

Let's just give this two weeks without spinning diatribe on the boards and tell our friend on vacation on the BBJ scale and flex to boot, to stop getting into emotional and potentially lible communications about the founder. This guy has gotten outta control and we need somebody else in their. Who do you think was one of the lead negotiators in the last contract?

 

[Dr. Cy Kotic]

Netjets has quite a few customers leaving the program before the end of the year (around 50, possibly more). 9 out of the 11 customers I flew this past tour are leaving the program. Grapevine rumors have said that customers are threating class-action lawsuits for the Marquis Card and the massive sell-offs. Even if this pilot contract was completed in week, the internal problems plaguing Netjets will still be present (core fleet sold, mismanagement, inefficient scheduling, etc). IMO why would the company want to complete a deal now? If the perceived problem was to be fixed, what will the company blame its failures on afterwards?

 

[gunfyter]

I thought this thread was about whether you agree with Kreskin's prediction or not.

 

[Hawkered]

Yeah?..and a friend of the refueller in Hong Kong at the Chep Lap Kok Airport..who is friends with Mr Santulli's top trainer told...

Okay, I'll be civil.

All lawsuits are public domain. I've looked for these alleged filings and can't find any.

You can't sell a product unless you know the cost. Fuel they have covered on user surcharge fees. Labor is still an unknown cost ..without our settlement. Its screwing up pending contracts and airplane delivery schedules.

Core fleet sales were a big mistake..every pilot knows it...every owner knows it and so does our management.

We all make mistakes...get over it!

 

[gunfyter]

So we cant pay pilots because of management mistakes?

 

[Hawkered]

No, we all have to work together to correct the mistakes of the past, including those of Local 284's...and move forward!!!

 

[FLYLOW22]

If you leave now, you"ll never forgive yourself! In two years from now you'll be talking to newhires who simply won't believe what you had to go through to make this place so good to work for.

As for the passengers, we'll survive for a short time longer on default that the airline service is so poor, but we won't be forgiven for screwing up their holidays. Union knows that-so does company.

That's why the mantra has been so unified at corporate and worker level..

Git 'r Done!!

And it is about to be so!

Funny. There is a ex-FLOPS guy I ran into just today who started with NJA last week. He said something about being better off here becasue at least there was a mechanism to dispute bad management. At FLOPS you just have to bend over and grin.

 

[gunfyter]

Whoooops...


I guess Kreskin and I are wrong.

Negotiations are back on....

 

[FLYLOW22]

.there are no strike benefits coming from the Teamsters...Eastern pilots received $2000-2500 per month in strike benefits...and thsi came from assessments to the other ALPA carriers...I don't think the Teamsters are going to help very much on this strike...how much does the IBT have squirreled away for a strike fund...I guess none...

Well.. thanks for guessing. But you guessed wrong. A formula has been devised by the E Board and IBT for strike pay. How livable is life on strike pay? Well, for many it would provide a pay raise over what they make now by working. The time limit is unlimited for strike pay as well.

Plans are well underway for the pilots of NJA to withstand a lockout. If it happens, it happens.

 

[Diesel]

Let's just give this two weeks without spinning diatribe on the boards and tell our friend on vacation on the BBJ scale and flex to boot, to stop getting into emotional and potentially lible communications about the founder. This guy has gotten outta control and we need somebody else in their. Who do you think was one of the lead negotiators in the last contract?

I doubt you'd post that on our own message board with your name next to it.

Posting in anonymity has it benefits.

 

[Hawkered]

Alright....I'm the Six Million Dollar Man!!

 

[NJACMH]

Well.. thanks for guessing. But you guessed wrong. A formula has been devised by the E Board and IBT for strike pay. How livable is life on strike pay? Well, for many it would provide a pay raise over what they make now by working. The time limit is unlimited for strike pay as well.

Plans are well underway for the pilots of NJA to withstand a lockout. If it happens, it happens.

Glad to hear that because I know the rest of us will still be getting paid!

 

[gunfyter]

Glad to hear that because I know the rest of us will still be getting paid!

So will I. its called contract flying $750 to $1000 a day. How many days do I have to work to pass your pay?

 

[gutshotdraw]

Gunfyter,

Glad you have the contract flying option. Do a bit myself and always enjoy it.

Meanwhile, even if negotiations have resumed, it doesn't mean much will change.

As I posted earlier, the company wants to reset the productivity baseline. As a group, non-union shops are typically more productive than union operations. If the beancounters in Woodbridge are telling the poo-bahs that giving the union what they want would cost X but a strike or lockout would cost X minus, most business types would pick the cheaper option. If the company thinks they can get a deal where column A and column B are roughly equal, they would rather keep the existing pilot group in order to minimize shareholder defections. Problem is, 6 S is the stated goal and the number in Column A is currently WAY too high for the company to swallow.

I'm sticking with my prediction that any current negotiations are for show and when the company asks NMB for a mediator, the end game clock will have started ticking.

 

[gunfyter]

your prediction is possible. Either way ... lets get it over with. Its better for everybody.

 

[Hawkered]

Gunfyter

Excellent post...yes!

Let's get over it and move on!!

Come to terms with our own egos, stop hurting the innocent bystanders in all of this, namely the poor owners who have to put up with this whole BS, forgive us our own sins in this fiasco and....

Git 'r Done!!

 

[ultrarunner]

All this to avoid paying standard NBBA pilot salaries

Does NBAA actually benchmark the fractional salaries?

That's the measure, isn't it? Or does the pilot group simply thow themselves in the "corporate column"?

 

[gunfyter]

If you want to benchmark fractionals all you have to do is look at our sister companies. NJE and NJI.

 

[ultrarunner]

If you want to benchmark fractionals all you have to do is look at our sister companies. NJE and NJI.

Any compenstation specialist/salary benchmark company would look at all the Fracs to determine the salary that is supported by that industry.

It's unreasonable to think that a frac postion should be benchmarked against a non frac company.

You benchmark against your own industry. That's the whole point of it.

So, back to my original question:

How do the salaries at NJ benchmark against the Frac industry?

 

[gunfyter]

I don't care about your question.

we ARE the frac industry. When we move so will all the others.

Now go away and bother people on the majors board. Where you are rooting against the NWA mechanics.

 

[ultrarunner]

I don't care about your question.

we ARE the frac industry. When we move so will all the others.

Now go away and bother people on the majors board. Where you are rooting against the NWA mechanics.

OK, so, who are you wanted to be compared with, or benchmarked against, for your compenstation package?

And, NO, I wasn't rooting against the NWA wrenches...they gambled and lost. I called it like it was. No one cared (except them), they walked, they got replaced. That pretty much sums that up.

And I am sure you're smart enough to realize it can happen to you.

 

[gunfyter]

If it happens it happens.

 

[ultrarunner]

Supply and demand, and expectations.

"...Do ya feel lucky..."


Good luck

 

[gunfyter]

No. Not lucky.

I feel confidant and prepared. and that I am am fighting for what is right.

 

[steel]

Any compenstation specialist/salary benchmark company would look at all the Fracs to determine the salary that is supported by that industry.

It's unreasonable to think that a frac postion should be benchmarked against a non frac company.

You benchmark against your own industry. That's the whole point of it.

So, back to my original question:

How do the salaries at NJ benchmark against the Frac industry?

Please don't take this the wrong way? But...what is a compenstation specialist?

And as to your question, which NJ company were you wondering about? EJM, NJI (soon to be NJA), or NJA?

 

[ultrarunner]

Please don't take this the wrong way? But...what is a compenstation specialist?

Opps..typing too fast....."compensation specialist" All big company's have them. It's typically part of the HR dept. The do the benchmarking. Typically using larger company's to gather the data.

[/QUOTE]
And as to your question, which NJ company were you wondering about? EJM, NJI (soon to be NJA), or NJA?

NJA

 

[steel]

Opps..typing too fast....."compensation specialist" All big company's have them. It's typically part of the HR dept. The do the benchmarking. Typically using larger company's to gather the data.

And as to your question, which NJ company were you wondering about? EJM, NJI (soon to be NJA), or NJA?

NJA[/QUOTE]





Thanks, I should have known that.



As to where the benchmark should be set, I think it is hard to do initially, which is what we are doing. This is going to be the benchmark when we get this done. That’s why we are being watched closely by all of the other frac companies, including the other companies within the NJ umbrella. I like to counter you by asking how you benchmark a salary system on something that hasn’t been in place very long. We encounter increased workload, increased RONs, etc, as compared to the corporate industry. Conversely, we use airline type reserve schedules and airline type rest rules. Bottom line, this is a new industry. This is going to be the benchmark when this is complete. Moisture and shamtulli know this, and they don’t want to be the losers. Their egos could shut this place down. I just hope their egos and union busting firms are set aside soon, so our customers will enjoy the upcoming holiday season.

 

[ultrarunner]

As to where the benchmark should be set, I think it is hard to do initially, which is what we are doing. This is going to be the benchmark when we get this done.

Ok, I can buy that. To set the standard is a lofty goal. I am just looking at it from the standpoint of 'hard data'. That's what a benchmark survey is.

You can throw out all kinds of numbers, and hope for the best, but you have to have the data to back it up.

In some parts of your company, you're leading the pack. For example, a 12 year NJ BBJ CPT is banking about 17 grand a month...their counter part at American Airlines is getting only 10K a month. WOW. FO are 7700 and 6900, NJ to AA respectively.

Now, that's only a single example. The 73 is tougher, as you are limited in the types of company's that you can benchmark against, as it's typically limited to airlines.

An interesting assingment to be sure. I am just curious as to the type of data and benchmark compensation data the NJ pilot group is using to support it's salary demands.

Everyone typically gets hung up on aircraft type...where in many cases, INDUSTRY type would be a better comparision.

 

[WGFP48]

A formula has been devised by the E Board and IBT for strike pay. How livable is life on strike pay? Well, for many it would provide a pay raise over what they make now by working. The time limit is unlimited for strike pay as well

Well lets do a little hypothetical math here and see??
A liveable wage thats more than they make now...lets just assume $3000 per month and with 2000 pilots thats $6 Mil per month...the union is not in a position to pay this kind of money to keep the pilots "walking the line" . You need to be telling the membership how much money they will be getting...so they can make the "right decision" of whether they will cross or walk.....it took ALPA 6 months at Eastern to realize that they did the wrong thing and tell its members to go back to work...no way the IBT can last 6 weeks on strike....LET IT HAPPEN!!! Break this union now.

 

[gunfyter]

Go ahead, Make my day.