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The Amazing Kreskin
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Be careful what you wish for
Remember - be careful what you wish for -- it may come true.
On a few threads I see pilots hoping that the styrike will cause customers to leave, defect to CS or FLEX, then CS and FLEX will have more owners, more planes, need more pilots, hire the former NJA pilots who will now work at a "better" place.
I know managaments and a zillion other items are different between the companies, but as the other companies grow with former NJA owners, these companies will have their own growing pains, and maybe attempts to unionize (responded to by "union busting" tactics). Then where are you. The other companies will not close their doors and "remain small" when customers are knocking.
Just a thought.
Fly safe.
Remember - be careful what you wish for -- it may come true.
On a few threads I see pilots hoping that the styrike will cause customers to leave, defect to CS or FLEX, then CS and FLEX will have more owners, more planes, need more pilots, hire the former NJA pilots who will now work at a "better" place.
I know managaments and a zillion other items are different between the companies, but as the other companies grow with former NJA owners, these companies will have their own growing pains, and maybe attempts to unionize (responded to by "union busting" tactics). Then where are you. The other companies will not close their doors and "remain small" when customers are knocking.
Just a thought.
Fly safe.
gutshotdraw
ZERT Wilson CQB User
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- 3,226
Hydrarkt,
The point was NJE would continue to operate and cover some US customers while in Europe EXACTLY as happens today. Didn't mean to imply NJE aircraft and crew would cross the pond to perform US trips.
Gunfyter,
There are more than 10,000 pilots on furlough from various airlines who would rather be driving jets than driving cabs. While the training expense would be horrendous, remember that those fees would go from one BH pocket to another (FlightSafety). Keep in mind also that replacement workers during a possible strike would operate under pay and work rules set by management and FARs 91K and 135, not the existing CBA. My contention throughout this entire episode is that the company seeks to reset the productivity baseline. The pay offered replacement pilots would likely be higher than the current salary schedule. The real financial difference to the company would come from eliminating the overtime and contract violation penalties that exist in the current CBA. The cherry on top for management is eliminating the untold millions that would be owed the present pilot group in retro pay or signing bonus (whichever option was agreed to).
I think we all understand that most American corporations today are driven by accounting decisions. In column A is the total expense over x number of years if the company agrees to a new contract with its union. In column B is the total expense over the same x number of years if management precipitates a strike and feels it can successfully replace the union workforce.
I believe the company has selected column B. The remaining questions are : 1)When will this happen and 2) Can the company successfully replace the union workforce. My crystal ball gets very fuzzy on both of those questions.
The point was NJE would continue to operate and cover some US customers while in Europe EXACTLY as happens today. Didn't mean to imply NJE aircraft and crew would cross the pond to perform US trips.
Gunfyter,
There are more than 10,000 pilots on furlough from various airlines who would rather be driving jets than driving cabs. While the training expense would be horrendous, remember that those fees would go from one BH pocket to another (FlightSafety). Keep in mind also that replacement workers during a possible strike would operate under pay and work rules set by management and FARs 91K and 135, not the existing CBA. My contention throughout this entire episode is that the company seeks to reset the productivity baseline. The pay offered replacement pilots would likely be higher than the current salary schedule. The real financial difference to the company would come from eliminating the overtime and contract violation penalties that exist in the current CBA. The cherry on top for management is eliminating the untold millions that would be owed the present pilot group in retro pay or signing bonus (whichever option was agreed to).
I think we all understand that most American corporations today are driven by accounting decisions. In column A is the total expense over x number of years if the company agrees to a new contract with its union. In column B is the total expense over the same x number of years if management precipitates a strike and feels it can successfully replace the union workforce.
I believe the company has selected column B. The remaining questions are : 1)When will this happen and 2) Can the company successfully replace the union workforce. My crystal ball gets very fuzzy on both of those questions.
I have been reading posts on this website for many weeks now and its time to join in...I saw Eastern Airlines hire and put on the line 2800 replacement pilots in 6 months...there is no doubt that NJA could do this with very slight interuptions in service...and there is no telling how many NJA pilots would cross...there are no strike benefits coming from the Teamsters...Eastern pilots received $2000-2500 per month in strike benefits...and thsi came from assessments to the other ALPA carriers...I don't think the Teamsters are going to help very much on this strike...how much does the IBT have squirreled away for a strike fund...I guess none...so it will be a real hardship on all pilots...either pay the mortgages and feed the family or "walk the line""...I for one am ready for this strike to happen and finally get rid of this cancerous union from the NetJets property...LET IT HAPPEN!!!!!
gunfyter
Well-known member
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10.000 furloughed ALPA pilots ready to cross the line and become SCABS.
I don't think so.
Personally I would rather die... literally ... than be a Scab.
------------------------------------------------
Anything is possible. And we know this company has the money.
I am ready to get it over with either way.
I don't think so.
Personally I would rather die... literally ... than be a Scab.
------------------------------------------------
Anything is possible. And we know this company has the money.
I am ready to get it over with either way.
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Gunfyter,
With due respect, you have shown a desire to work at a non-union based fractional owned by the largest OEM supplier to Netjets.
Say you do go there and you find yourself asked to fly charters to cover NJA customers. What protection will you have to stand by those strong union ethics then?
Again...guys..this is not a time to all start turning into Chicken Little. The sky is not falling. The company has money and alternatives; we have a solid negotiating team and a unified workforce working as hard as they can to solve the problems too.
I think the minds and hearts of the thousands of employees here are into a peaceful and equitable resolve. I have made my earlier prediction of a very rapid resolve from here on out.
I stand by that belief!
With due respect, you have shown a desire to work at a non-union based fractional owned by the largest OEM supplier to Netjets.
Say you do go there and you find yourself asked to fly charters to cover NJA customers. What protection will you have to stand by those strong union ethics then?
Again...guys..this is not a time to all start turning into Chicken Little. The sky is not falling. The company has money and alternatives; we have a solid negotiating team and a unified workforce working as hard as they can to solve the problems too.
I think the minds and hearts of the thousands of employees here are into a peaceful and equitable resolve. I have made my earlier prediction of a very rapid resolve from here on out.
I stand by that belief!
gunfyter
Well-known member
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- Mar 25, 2002
- Posts
- 3,785
Competition will fly charters for NJ?
I am not leaving Hawkered. Once we have a new CBA I am way better off here.
I just agree with Gutshot that the company could do this if they really really wanted to... They have the money ... not like they have been crying poor.
If we are all to be fired, I rather it be now ... not later.
Of course what I really believe is that its BS ... part of a FUD campaign.
I am not scared.
I am not leaving Hawkered. Once we have a new CBA I am way better off here.
I just agree with Gutshot that the company could do this if they really really wanted to... They have the money ... not like they have been crying poor.
If we are all to be fired, I rather it be now ... not later.
Of course what I really believe is that its BS ... part of a FUD campaign.
I am not scared.
Somehow I don't think you're realizing "due process" in all of this though.
Judge, jury and executioner on all of this? Kind of makes me wonder how you deal with all of the rest of life's problems?
Is this any way to speak of an employer that has helped feed your family as an airman in a post 9/11 world? I'm not so sure I'd be prepared to do that.
You know, "in the South", when a dog bites its owner out on the "ranch" we take it out and shoot it!
You expect to be resolved to failure, before you've even had a chance to examine the final verdict, yet you expect to be paid as a world leading decision maker?!
C'mon, gimme a break!
Judge, jury and executioner on all of this? Kind of makes me wonder how you deal with all of the rest of life's problems?
Is this any way to speak of an employer that has helped feed your family as an airman in a post 9/11 world? I'm not so sure I'd be prepared to do that.
You know, "in the South", when a dog bites its owner out on the "ranch" we take it out and shoot it!
You expect to be resolved to failure, before you've even had a chance to examine the final verdict, yet you expect to be paid as a world leading decision maker?!
C'mon, gimme a break!
Let's just give this two weeks without spinning diatribe on the boards and tell our friend on vacation on the BBJ scale and flex to boot, to stop getting into emotional and potentially lible communications about the founder. This guy has gotten outta control and we need somebody else in their. Who do you think was one of the lead negotiators in the last contract?
Dr. Cy Kotic
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Netjets has quite a few customers leaving the program before the end of the year (around 50, possibly more). 9 out of the 11 customers I flew this past tour are leaving the program. Grapevine rumors have said that customers are threating class-action lawsuits for the Marquis Card and the massive sell-offs. Even if this pilot contract was completed in week, the internal problems plaguing Netjets will still be present (core fleet sold, mismanagement, inefficient scheduling, etc). IMO why would the company want to complete a deal now? If the perceived problem was to be fixed, what will the company blame its failures on afterwards?
Yeah?..and a friend of the refueller in Hong Kong at the Chep Lap Kok Airport..who is friends with Mr Santulli's top trainer told...
Okay, I'll be civil.
All lawsuits are public domain. I've looked for these alleged filings and can't find any.
You can't sell a product unless you know the cost. Fuel they have covered on user surcharge fees. Labor is still an unknown cost ..without our settlement. Its screwing up pending contracts and airplane delivery schedules.
Core fleet sales were a big mistake..every pilot knows it...every owner knows it and so does our management.
We all make mistakes...get over it!
Okay, I'll be civil.
All lawsuits are public domain. I've looked for these alleged filings and can't find any.
You can't sell a product unless you know the cost. Fuel they have covered on user surcharge fees. Labor is still an unknown cost ..without our settlement. Its screwing up pending contracts and airplane delivery schedules.
Core fleet sales were a big mistake..every pilot knows it...every owner knows it and so does our management.
We all make mistakes...get over it!
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FLYLOW22
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FLYLOW22
Well-known member
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WGFP48 said:
Well.. thanks for guessing. But you guessed wrong. A formula has been devised by the E Board and IBT for strike pay. How livable is life on strike pay? Well, for many it would provide a pay raise over what they make now by working. The time limit is unlimited for strike pay as well.
Plans are well underway for the pilots of NJA to withstand a lockout. If it happens, it happens.
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