The ALPA brand scope debate

[Mel Sharples]

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Before I give you my personal comments, please read the following quotes.

First, this is from a speech made by ALPA president, and NWA pilot, Duane Woerth:

And over the last year-and-a-half, but especially since the COMAIR strike, there has been but one overriding theme at every one of these conferences: “Airlines are not airlines – they are brand managers.” Their goal is to have multiple holding companies that manage dozens of other companies that possess individual FAA or Transport Canada operating certificates – but market them as a single brand and have each certificate holder compete on a basis of the lowest pilot cost.

Management has a strategy to further divide us and ratchet us down – they call it "brand management.” We need a counter strategy and we need it yesterday. What I believe we need is brand governance for pilots within the brand. Traditional scope fences will still be necessary outside of the brand, but inside the brand it is going to require a paradigm shift to what I call “the next generation of scope.”

This next generation of scope sets contractual standards for brand eligibility. This scope focuses more on the quality of the contract rather than merely on the quantity of small jet aircraft. To remove management’s financial incentive to develop even more substandard subsets within the brand and accelerate the proverbial race to the bottom – which they think they’ve got right now – all of us need to work on a coordinated brandscope strategy.

Every pilot group within the brand is going to have to put some skin into this new game in its own enlightened self-interest.

We will not be intimidated. We will not be bowed. So that 70 years from today, some future ALPA president can declare that this Board and this generation of pilots saved the industry and saved this profession from its darkest hour.

Only you can do that!! And I know that you will!!

Second, the conclusions from an ALPA scope committee:

CONCLUSIONS

The Committee concluded that all ALPA member pilots share common goals regarding resolution, from their perspective, of scope issues at their airline and within the Association. These goals are:

• A desire for market and financial success at each carrier.
• The elimination of predatory practices between ALPA affiliated pilot groups.
• The protection and improvement of pay, working conditions, job security, and career advancement for each pilot group.
• The elimination of management’s ability to whipsaw ALPA affiliated pilot groups.
• The strengthening of the collective bargaining force of the Air Line Pilots Association for the benefit of all ALPA represented pilot groups.

And finally, a statement from NWA MEC chairman Mark McClain:

"NWA management is trying to pit airlines' labor groups against each other in a bidding war for available flying," says Mark McClain, a Northwest pilot and chairman of Northwest Air Line Pilots Association master executive council. "First one to the bottom gets to keep their jobs.... Northwest pilots support Mesaba pilots and will help resist any attempts by NWA management to whipsaw pilot groups in the Northwest family."

First of all, JohnDoe et. al., I apologize for making this personal. I really and truly do. It is not about you or me, but about MEC's and union stances. This makes me upset but I still want to argue the facts and not take shots, which I have done in the past. For that, I hope you accept my apology.

With that said, after you read the above, can you now see more clearly why regional ALPA pilots are so disgusted with ALPA national? This is not something we created. This was something that was fed to us. We were just dumb enough to believe it.

John, I have friends who are furloughed from NWA. (Geez... maybe you are one of them. ) I don't want you guys to have to sacrafice anymore than we want to have to. But, your MEC -- the NWA MEC, as well as ALPA national have stated (as read above) that keeping scope in the family MUST BE A PRIORITY. We must stop the race to the bottom.


You asked:

I think I have answered your questions, so how about mine?
What is the solution for Alpa to stop the whipsaw between regionals so that it is no longer attractive for management's to "fish" for cheaper labor, like United with Air Wisc. (that is what we are talking about here, the chance they may lose their feed to a lower cost carrier).

To be honest, I don't have all the answers. I have some ideas, but I don't know what will work. But one thing I do know -- ALPA national is preaching one thing while their actions show something else. But they need to put more pressure on local MEC's and LEC's. They need to keep selling each and every airline on why we need to stick together. They need to pass resolutions that MEC's not abiding by these directions, can and will be kicked out of OUR union.

I don't hold this against you or any other NWA pilot personally, but you can't honestly tell me that allowing another Airlink into the "red tail family" is protecting the jobs of Mesaba and Pinnacle pilots, as the NWA MEC said they want to do. I realize you guys are taking it in the shorts, but you didn't have to kick us in the balls at the same time.

I don't expect you to take pay cuts to further my career. But you guys had to take cuts anyway. Why screw the Airlink guys at the same time? Did you have another choice? I would bet you did. (Note: I'm not saying that to make you mad... that's honestly how we feel and I hope you can give an honest answer. Thanks! )


.

 

[Mel Sharples]

Maybe they should refund our dues for failing to live up to what they say.

As cool as that would be, I think there is a better chance of Linda Tripp being Playboy centerfold of the year.

 

[efiscompmon]

WITHOUT excusing the antics at Herndon, I suggest you re-read the alpa constitution and bylaws they sent when you joined.

ALPA national IS the Major's MECs--specifically the "elephants". They represent on a dollar basis--more of them making more money equals "better" representation. It is neither democratic or republican (not the parties--the form of representation).

Given what has happened and is still likely to happen, NWA MEC will do ANYTHING to protect their pension. Are they selling you out on a fast upgrade today, or "defending the profession" so that you have a worthwhile job to aspire to tomorrow?

The Wychors of the world are everywhere--the east texas mafia at eagle, the hoods behind the 2000 TSA contract, and so on and so on. Back when PCL was EXA the "opposition" MEC chair candidate was a 50 year old ex navy guy who is one of the most anti-union people I ever met--in fact, during 10/01 when pilots were briefly furloughed, he was picking up every hour of open time he could--"daughters in college" you know....Vote these b@stards out--can't undo what they have done, but you don't have to pay for their vacations either.

I made my peace with the status of regionals in ALPA by realizing that my membership allows access to some great disability insurance and some great lawyers in case i have a carpet dance with management. Anyone who expects macroeconomic issues to be addressed in favor of the regional pilot has a deluded view of their own importance. Follow the money--and see where you (we) come out in the equation.

Hate ALPA now? Good for you. Work somewhere that doesnt have them--Teamsters will take your money and not even give you the koolaid. Or there is the joy of working for a non-union company like Colgan--Fly or fry, as in work the fryer at Mcdonalds, 'cause you're fired!

DALPA opened pandora's box letting jets off property. Once the precedent is set, the rest is just ratcheting up the numbers on scope--"raising the house one corner at a time"--wonder where they learned that?

Duane's leadership has been totally absent on this subject--he has been playing the defensive all along. The irony here is that soon we will all be "regional" pilots with the same work rules and pay. Thanks DW!

---one last note: Does anyone remember the fact that in August 2001 US Air's MEC reached an agreement with management to fly 50 seat RJs at mainline? What a difference a month can make, eh?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Why isn't ALPA the silver bullet I thought it was....

 

[Rogue5]

Perhaps ALPA should change its name to MALPA: the Major Airline Pilots Association...

 

[General Lee]

Maybe you guys need to start your own union if you don't like ALPA. You guys seem to like ALPA when you need strike benefits.....



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FN FAL]

Maybe you guys need to start your own union if you don't like ALPA. You guys seem to like ALPA when you need strike benefits.....



Bye Bye--General Lee

PA-Ting!

You hit the nail right on the head. I'll bet a 'RALPA' would even condescend to representing us "bottom feeders" down at the cargo level as well...seeing as cargo...er should I say "mail" was the "mother of all airlines" and that regionals are all borne from the old days of "135" flying...untill "one level of safety" made them equal to the rest of the 121 world.

 

[~~~^~~~]

General:

If we were to form R-ALPA, your MEC might lose control of scope. You know that ALPA has never challenged Delta's structure with a single carrier petition, or even asked the question. R-ALPA surely would push the issue.

In the old days there was little chance of the Regional pilots making a run on your scope with their own union. However, times have changed:
(1) Your MEC started the war by moving the limit from 105 to 50 seats, with restricted 70 seat jets.
(2) Your MEC has negotiated employment provisions for Delta pilots on the seniority lists of other Delta employee groups.
(3) Your MEC kept us separate when a staple, or merger of some sort, made the most sense for everyone.
(4) Delta is in financial straights - a dollar is a dollar.
(5) There are many more "Regional" pilots than there used to be
(6) There is a generation of jets headed for major operators in the 100 to 130 seat class that would be the battleground.

R-ALPA might not be able to face down ALPA. ALPA is stubborn, litigious, and will not shy away from the most henious acts of legerdemain to win, at any cost. Particularly if the "enemy" is other ALPA members who need to be "kept in line." But, this is the good old United States. I would have given the Reverend King pretty long odds if I met him in 1966. Right usually does mean right in this Country and ALPA will probably be handed a defeat that forces a change in their behavior. The RJDC has already made some progress, IMHO.

I don't think further fragmentation helps anyone in this industry. We need ALPA to bring pilots together to restore this profession. Every year I see ALPA getting closer to the end of its apartied scope policy. More folks like General are seeing the light - that a union should bring pilots together - and every day, good old Woerth gets closer to age 60.

~~~^~~~

 

[surplus1]

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We were just dumb enough to believe it.
.

That about sums it up. Now, if your would change "were" to "are" it would be perfect.

 

[sf3boy]

Mel, baby, you're just not getting it. All that rah rah circle jerk crap a year ago in MSP for the MSA strike rallies was just a little show by ALPA national. They only showed interest because it would have looked even worse if they acted how they really felt....indifferent. Efiscompmon said it all. Who pays the most in dues? That would be the ones at the "dinosaur" airlines. Who has the money grows on trees pensions to protect? Those same guys. Who makes up ALPA national? Right again, same dudes. Maybe a seperate union is the way to go.

The only reason that the mainline guys even talk to us is because a good percentage of them rely on us commuter pilots to take them to their homes at the outstations.

I hope MSA gets 757's. I don't care what happens to NWA pilots anymore as someone as pointed out to me in another thread, I don't work there. I need to only care about the viabilaty of MSA. That maybe was the best advice from a mainline guy I have received.

 

[General Lee]

Fins,


Delta can negotiate anything they want, and usually we at mainline can offer them more $$ (like we have) so they tend to deal with us. Delta knew they could get more from us, so they actually negotiated scope with us.......can you see my point yet? We were the bigger fish to fry. Delta didn't mind the scope issues, and they decided to do this and that with us so that WE WOULD SHOW THEM THE MONEY. Scope is their's, and they were willing to allow whatever to get the money from us. They own the scope. We enforce it. They gave it up so they could get more money from us.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[surplus1]

Maybe a seperate union is the way to go.

NO, no, no! Please think and do not let emotion be your guide. A separate union is the absolute wrong thing to do. It would be far worse than believeing the BS you've been listening too and drinking the Kool Aid you've been served for years (even by the people you elect yourselves, who just don't get it and have been drinking the same Kool Aid they serve to you).

Your only chance for survival is to force the existing union to comply with its legal responsibility to represent your interests fairly. [They've given what you need on a silver platter. A written admission that they accepted a $15 million dollar "donation" to sell you out, plus a lovely letter from your own Chairman.]

If you create a separate union you will give ALPA the biggest gift you could. A separate union means they have no responsibility to represent or protect your interests and they would be legally free to do whatever they please. If you think it is bad now, I guarantee it would be far worse with a separate union. That is exactly why they keep suggesting that we leave. Don't fall into that trap.

If you want a perfect example of a "separate union" just take a look and AA and Eagle. They have separate unions. Therefore the APA can do whatever it wants no matter how it affects Eagle. They have no responsibility whatever to consider the interests of Eagle pilots, they don't represent them. Keep that reality separate from the fact that ALPA does nothing to defend the Eagle pilots against the APA. That's a different problem.

There is ample evidence that your union does not protect your interests and gives preference to other members of the same union. That violates Federal law. If you have been done wrong at the hand of your union, don't leave it. What you need to do is take action, legal action, to force it to provide you with the fair representation for which you pay.

Protesting while you do nothing to defend your rights will accomplish nothing; you'll just get more of the same. Join a separate union and you will simply give up your right to legal recourse. The screwing you get will then increase.

Think please -- all of you.

 

[Rhoid]

Your only chance for survival is to force the existing union to comply with its legal responsibility to represent your interests fairly.

Surplus, serious question here. Just how would you expect ALPA to fairly represent both parties? It seems to me to be an insurmountable conflict of interest. And typically like most orginizations, the group with the most money wins. It seems to me that until regional pilots can get elected to ALPA's board of directors that the regionals will be playing second fiddle to the wishes of mainline.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Rhoid:

You deal with the conflict of interest by setting up a system of governance that uses checks and balances, limiting power and protecting the rights of minorities through the rule of law. If this sounds like a US Government lesson, it is.

ALPA's Constitution was gutted removing some of these protections and the union's representational structure jerrymandered to keep certain interests in power, regardless.

For example, the current allocation of EVP's is completely out of whack, and in the case of Fed Ex, is based on dues, not the pilots represented. There is no independent judiciary for a harmed minority member to advance a grievance when the Constitution is violated.

At ALPA, the perpetrators, the police and the judge are the same people. These roles need to be split and real power given to the enforcement of a real Constitution. Then, the profession will be on a track back to restoration.

~~~^~~~

 

[Mel Sharples]

At ALPA, the perpetrators, the police and the judge are the same people. These roles need to be split and real power given to the enforcement of a real Constitution. Then, the profession will be on a track back to restoration.

Excellent post.

You know, this is like the debate with the idiots that don't understand the Electoral College. The ones who say, "It doesn't represent the popular vote." That is the freaking point!

ALPA is supposed to represent ALL member carriers. Yet the bulk of the members are from the big airlines. If only we could get an electoral college or our own, or at least a senate. ALPA should base major decisions on a vote of each member airline, or set up a system so it's not majority rule.

I know, I know... I can hear Surplus1 already. But we are never going to have anything close to a fair say in ALPA until airlines aren't judged by size. Having less members may be reality but it shouldn't dictate to how abused one gets.

I'm all for RALPA. Where do I sign up???