Thanks Jetblue and Spirit for raising the bar.

[GogglesPisano]

Also, under Citizens United, Unions can engage in direct contributions, not just via the pac. . .

ALPA has not.

 

[$$$4nothin]

Why are you so convinced that JB pilots could not create an effective In House union? You have plenty of pilots so the dues would buy you whatever expertise you want - and you are in NYC so you have the best attoreys and financial experts in the world at your doorstep. Just curious why you are selling yourself short. . .

1. The company would spend more to fight an in house at every turn than dues could cover.
2. Management is hostile towards unions therefore in house wouldn't work.
3. Didn't work for FedEx
4. A vote for an in house union already failed once.
5. Those best attorneys in NY cost way more than our dues would cover
6. We already have a student council made up of pilots. We need more than that.
7. Would take years just to set up the infrastructure of the entire in-house let alone negotiate a CBA

I am pro company. However I am also pro pilot. I think what helps the employee ultimately makes the company stronger. However convincing a bean counter of that over the next qtr profits is hard to do. ALPA has its issues, but it is what is best for the group.

Again I ask. Would you get rid of all your ALPA representation and protections to let your CEO and BOD make all your work rule and compensation changes at there whim. If the answer is anything except of course I would, which it obviously isn't this conversation is pretty much over

 

[Smarta$$]

I have no problem with my in house union lobbying. I have an issue with ALPA supporting an agenda that is not 100% in the best interest of pilots at my company.

Also, under Citizens United, Unions can engage in direct contributions, not just via the pac. . .

Wait, you are mad that ALPA, in your opinion, contributes to Democrat politicians, but can only legally do so because of citizens united, a conservative ruling?

 

[dicko]

Everybody has to do what they see as best, but the merger protections with ALPA are questionable.

Examples:

USAir-America West...both ALPA, did binding arbitration, theoretically should have been rather straight forward...didn't work out well, "binding" wasn't binding and has never been implemented, USAir dumps ALPA.

AirTran...bought by non-ALPA carrier, AT ALPA reps under guidance of ALPA attorneys accepted the worst of the three seniority proposals offered. Pilots screwed out of a chance to vote on a nearly immediate 50% pay raise. Didn't work out well but ALPA keeps collecting AT dues. So, ALPA cost AT plenty.

I can understand the appeal of ALPA when you don't have it, but the realities are what they are. A former NWA guy told me they were happy with the DAL deal because they got a pay raise in return for seniority...oops, sounds familiar!

You forgot TWA. So, let's amend the list of mergers where having ALPA wasn't exactly a boon:

1. TWA and AA,

2. US Air and America West,

3. SWA and AirTran.

ALPA has been found guilty of violating its DFR twice. Once with its own employees union and once with TWA. On the other hand, if your choice is no union or ALPA. Choose ALPA. Some of their services are excellent.

 

[$$$4nothin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1ce2thJfFs&feature=youtu.be

 

[Jetjockey]

Are most of you aware that independent unions often consult with ALPA national for many resources? It's truly pathetic how most pilots feel unionism is a spectator sport.

 

[boomlrd]

Nice job.

About $190 an hour and over $200 in a couple years.

Uh you are kidding, right? As a Spirit pilot, I see firsthand how we are treated and I can tell you that our concessionary contract raised no bar. We are still the lowest paid Airbus operators in the U.S. Virgin and Jetblue make more than me and they are both non-union. Our health care is no longer capped in this contract, it goes up 7% per year. We have no overtime pay anymore, no night override, no real international pay (Colombia is the only "international" location). We now pay dues on our 401k contributions, (thanks ALPA). No profit sharing, no stock options, no defined contribution, our 401k matching contributions are the lowest in the industry at 8%. We went on strike for this? I am sorry to my fellow pilots for being a part of lowering the bar, but once again, I will always vote no to any future contract that is not industry leading, we are the most profitable airline in the world, I am tired of our union demeaning us as a "little airline" that cannot be compared to DL, SWA, UA, etc. Industry leading profits! I want an industry leading contract! Unfortunately the MEC will use the same negotiators as last time, they lowered first year pay! Come on! It was not bad enough??

 

[ROSWELL41]

Uh you are kidding, right? As a Spirit pilot, I see firsthand how we are treated and I can tell you that our concessionary contract raised no bar. We are still the lowest paid Airbus operators in the U.S. Virgin and Jetblue make more than me and they are both non-union. Our health care is no longer capped in this contract, it goes up 7% per year. We have no overtime pay anymore, no night override, no real international pay (Colombia is the only "international" location). We now pay dues on our 401k contributions, (thanks ALPA). No profit sharing, no stock options, no defined contribution, our 401k matching contributions are the lowest in the industry at 8%. We went on strike for this? I am sorry to my fellow pilots for being a part of lowering the bar, but once again, I will always vote no to any future contract that is not industry leading, we are the most profitable airline in the world, I am tired of our union demeaning us as a "little airline" that cannot be compared to DL, SWA, UA, etc. Industry leading profits! I want an industry leading contract! Unfortunately the MEC will use the same negotiators as last time, they lowered first year pay! Come on! It was not bad enough??

'Concessionary'? You need a reality check big guy. How about you actually read the CBAs of other airlines and get back to us. The few I know with opinions like yours are so ignorant of other airlines CBAs it's astounding.

 

[HRDiva]

Boomlrd, I don't fly airplanes but I do know benefits. Limiting increases in health insurance costs to 7% coupled with free dental, is unheard of in the rest of the world, including the airline industry. And the limit applies to copays and deductibles. I just got my renewal quote in at a 12% increase. I will be happy to get the insurance company down to 7%.

 

[boomlrd]

Oh, I guess I am ruffling the Spirit MEC ALPA feathers. I have been at other airlines, I know other CBAs, Teamsters too. Truth hurts, we went on Strike for ALPA, and Airtran, we all know it.

Roswell41, was anything I said above a lie or incorrect? Please quote any inaccuracies.