Thanks Jetblue and Spirit for raising the bar.

[GogglesPisano]

I currently work for an ALPA carrier - I am absolutely convinced that the "benefit" received from ALPA is substantially less than the amount of money we give to them. In essence we are subsidizing benefits to a number of regionals and paying for the substantial and overly generous overhead that comes with the organization and worst of all - political donations to politicians who I would never support.

I am convinced an in house organization would provide much better representation and I would know 100% of what I pay would benefit me - and we would have much better control of the purse strings.

I am "convinced" the money flows from legacy/FedEx to the regionals. Some regionals are more in the red than others. But they're all in the red.

ALPA is prohibited by federal law from making political donations. That's why there's a PAC. How can you not know this?

A regional with an in-house union. Hmm. Skywest seems to treat their employees well even though they have nothing more than a student council. But there is tremendous market pressure to keep the pay/benefits competitive with other regionals (thank-you collective bargaining.)

Can this be repeated at your ALPA carrier? Will your management be as enlightened? History shows this is not the case at most airlines -- let alone at regionals. Most MBA's see you as a cost that needs to be aggressively managed. Big gamble.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Here are the facts:


3. ALPA spends our dues money on political candidates and causes that many pilots do not support.

Examples?

 

[Raoul Duke]

lobbying

 

[jynxyjericho]

lobbying

You mean the PAC (which is separate and has been for years)?

 

[GogglesPisano]

You are confusing getting a seat at the table and having our voice heard on capitol hill (lobbying) with supporting a candidate financially (PAC.)

How would you ensure your in-house union abides by your delicate political sensibilities?

 

[Mk3tm]

...If you do work for an ALPA carrier have you gone through a merger lately. If so how would you have liked going through that merger with just your CEO negotiating the deal you as a pilot received post merger...

Merger Protection - ALPA gives me that day one...

Everybody has to do what they see as best, but the merger protections with ALPA are questionable.

Examples:

USAir-America West...both ALPA, did binding arbitration, theoretically should have been rather straight forward...didn't work out well, "binding" wasn't binding and has never been implemented, USAir dumps ALPA.

AirTran...bought by non-ALPA carrier, AT ALPA reps under guidance of ALPA attorneys accepted the worst of the three seniority proposals offered. Pilots screwed out of a chance to vote on a nearly immediate 50% pay raise. Didn't work out well but ALPA keeps collecting AT dues. So, ALPA cost AT plenty.

I can understand the appeal of ALPA when you don't have it, but the realities are what they are. A former NWA guy told me they were happy with the DAL deal because they got a pay raise in return for seniority...oops, sounds familiar!

 

[$$$4nothin]

Everybody has to do what they see as best, but the merger protections with ALPA are questionable.

Examples:

USAir-America West...both ALPA, did binding arbitration, theoretically should have been rather straight forward...didn't work out well, "binding" wasn't binding and has never been implemented, USAir dumps ALPA.

AirTran...bought by non-ALPA carrier, AT ALPA reps under guidance of ALPA attorneys accepted the worst of the three seniority proposals offered. Pilots screwed out of a chance to vote on a nearly immediate 50% pay raise. Didn't work out well but ALPA keeps collecting AT dues. So, ALPA cost AT plenty.

I can understand the appeal of ALPA when you don't have it, but the realities are what they are. A former NWA guy told me they were happy with the DAL deal because they got a pay raise in return for seniority...oops, sounds familiar!

USair-Awest
AirTran-SW

Not a single pilot has lost his job in either of these mergers If I remember correctly. If my CEO was negotiating for me in a merger I don't think that would be the case.

Again. An in house would not work at JB for several reasons and is not an option. So again I ask. Would you get rid of all your ALPA representation and protections for your your CEO to make all your decisions for you at his wim. Your 1.95% tax deductible dues are an insurance policy. Insurance policies don't make you money. It is there to protect you when bad stuff happens. Try thinking of it that way.

 

[Raoul Duke]

You are confusing getting a seat at the table and having our voice heard on capitol hill (lobbying) with supporting a candidate financially (PAC.)

How would you ensure your in-house union abides by your delicate political sensibilities?

I have no problem with my in house union lobbying. I have an issue with ALPA supporting an agenda that is not 100% in the best interest of pilots at my company.

Also, under Citizens United, Unions can engage in direct contributions, not just via the pac. . .

 

[Raoul Duke]

USair-Awest
AirTran-SW

Not a single pilot has lost his job in either of these mergers If I remember correctly. If my CEO was negotiating for me in a merger I don't think that would be the case.

Again. An in house would not work at JB for several reasons and is not an option. So again I ask. Would you get rid of all your ALPA representation and protections for your your CEO to make all your decisions for you at his wim. Your 1.95% tax deductible dues are an insurance policy. Insurance policies don't make you money. It is there to protect you when bad stuff happens. Try thinking of it that way.

Why are you so convinced that JB pilots could not create an effective In House union? You have plenty of pilots so the dues would buy you whatever expertise you want - and you are in NYC so you have the best attoreys and financial experts in the world at your doorstep. Just curious why you are selling yourself short. . .

 

[RiddleEagle18]

Why are you so convinced that JB pilots could not create an effective In House union? You have plenty of pilots so the dues would buy you whatever expertise you want - and you are in NYC so you have the best attoreys and financial experts in the world at your doorstep. Just curious why you are selling yourself short. . .

Dues would not be required until the first contract is signed. ZERO initial dollars to negotiate with.

Ask the air tran and fedex guys why they moves from Independent unions to ALPA.

The company bleed them dry and stalled at every opportunity because a weak inhouse union couldnt stay afloat and make gains.

I believe it would be nothing more than a recognized version of the student council we have now.