Thanks CJC3407

[100-1/2]

On behalf of the entire Aviation Industry, Thanks!


http://www.aviationtoday.com/asw/topstories/FAA-Issues-Deicing-Rule_74122.html

Friday, August 19, 2011
FAA Issues Deicing Rule
FAA issued a new rule today to enhance aviation safety by requiring scheduled airlines to install ice detection equipment in their existing fleets or to update their flight manuals to make sure crews know when they should activate their ice protection systems.

“We want pilots to have the best technology available to detect icing conditions so they can take the steps necessary to ensure passenger safety,” said Ray LaHood, transportation secretary.

For aircraft equipped with an ice-detection system, the new rule mandates that the system alert the crew every time they need to activate ice protection. The system can either automatically turn on the ice protection or pilots can manually activate it. For aircraft without ice-detection equipment, the crew must activate the protection system based on cues listed in their airplane’s flight manual during climb and descent, and at the first sign of icing when at cruising altitude. The rule applies only to in-service aircraft that weigh less than 60,000 pounds because studies show smaller planes are more affected by undetected icing or late activation of the ice protection system.

“This rule incorporates the latest research on aircraft icing,” said Randy Babbitt, FAA administrator. “Making sure protection systems are turned on when icing conditions are detected will help eliminate accidents that can occur if pilots fail to turn on the ice protection soon enough.”



Way to go FAA! Surely, you have circumvented any associated risks from the most INexpensive piece of safety equipment already "installed" in any aircraft, the knucklehead(s) up front. Where already regulated and required equipment include; temperature gauges, aircraft structural lighting and windscreens from which one may peer into the heavenlies and gaze upon external aircraft structures to "detect" the presence of aerodynamically challenging icing on the aircraft and take measures to "assess" accumulation on the said structures and "TAKE ACTION" to "REMOVE", "DETER' or "PREVENT further/continuing accumulation of ice on the aircraft.


The light at the end of the tunnel is an FAA Freight Train of New Regulations.

100-1/2

 

[JoeMerchant]

This will probably result in another 2 pages of "boxed items" in the limitations section that will have to be "committed to memory"....More stupid procedures instead of common sense....

 

[DoinTime]

Way to go FAA! Surely, you have circumvented any associated risks from the most INexpensive piece of safety equipment already "installed" in any aircraft, the knucklehead(s) up front. Where already regulated and required equipment include; temperature gauges, aircraft structural lighting and windscreens from which one may peer into the heavenlies and gaze upon external aircraft structures to "detect" the presence of aerodynamically challenging icing on the aircraft and take measures to "assess" accumulation on the said structures and "TAKE ACTION" to "REMOVE", "DETER' or "PREVENT further/continuing accumulation of ice on the aircraft.

People said the same thing about TCAS back in the '80's. Professional aviators and air traffic controllers don't need regulation and additional equipment to keep them safe, do they?

 

[100-1/2]

DoinTime,

EXACTLY!!! Your Liberalism fell squarely into my point!

AGAIN! Regulation and Expense RESULTING from TWO Other KNUCKLEHEADS in a piper Managing to Take the Tail off a DC9 over Cerritos, CA?

This led to the Transponder Regulation and expense for GA aircraft navigating the proximity of what is also a regulatory Bi-Product, CLASS BRAVO AIRSPACE from the Airspace re-classification and organization of the 1990's.

BUT STILL!!! AND LIKELY Causitive, reliance on this equipment has done little to curb mid-air collisions. Fully TCAS equipped Lear 60 connecting with a C182 over Florida and the host of Mid-airs every year in SoCal are indicative of the FAA's Arrogant belief they can regulate fatalities and human error into non-existence!

100-1/2

 

[RJLoser]

You are not a bright man. Accidents happen. You driving around with no seat belts or airbags? Idiots flying?..... yes. Safer now?....yes

"Safety studies on TCAS estimate that the system improves safety in the airspace by a factor of between 3 and 5.[5]"

 

[LearLove]

I agree with 100 1/2 fully plus the fact that icing had nothing to do with the q400 hitting the ground other than the fact they were in some icing.

maybe, just maybe I bet not adding power, pulling back on the stick at stall shaker/pusher and retracting the flaps had 10000000000% more of a factor in this accident.

 

[RJLoser]

100 was right that this had nothing to do with icing. His response correlating TCAS and politics and rejecting the safety aspects shows me.... Darwin may be looking for him.

 

[JoeMerchant]

There was really only one cause with the crash of Colgan 3407....Pilot error plain and simple...The airplane stalled and they pulled back on the yoke after the stall..

1. They shouldn't have stalled in the first place.

2. If you stall, you shouldn't pull back on the yoke.

Adding more procedures regarding ice doesn't fix stupid...Sorry to be blunt..

Looking to the "nanny state" to prevent defecation from happening usually just results in more defecation happening....

 

[DoinTime]

Blah blah blah blah blah...

100-1/2

In my 15 years of flying TCAS has saved my bacon more than once and not because of my errors. I think (and I'm sure most transport pilots would agree) that TCAS is a vital piece of equipment in the cockpit that cannot be replaced by "more professionalism". Had it not been for the high profile Cerritos mid-air, the FAA would have probably not mandated TCAS and without a mandate, the air carriers would have never paid the money to install them in their fleets.

Tragedies (no matter the ignorance that lie at their root) are useful to push through safety measures that need to be enacted. Flt. 3407 is no exception and its done more for raising the safety bar than armys of Air Safety advocates have been able to.

 

[Flyer1015]

There was really only one cause with the crash of Colgan 3407....Pilot error plain and simple...The airplane stalled and they pulled back on the yoke after the stall..

1. They shouldn't have stalled in the first place.

2. If you stall, you shouldn't pull back on the yoke.

Adding more procedures regarding ice doesn't fix stupid...Sorry to be blunt..

Looking to the "nanny state" to prevent defecation from happening usually just results in more defecation happening....

Agreed. I'm getting tired of hearing that rest needs to be addressed because of Colgan 3407. They are correct, rest issues need to be addressed, but not because of 3407.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

. . . or to update their flight manuals to make sure crews know when they should activate their ice protection systems.

This is what the companies will do.

 

[bri5150]

Do most airlines not have set criteria of when to turn on the ice protection? Maybe the Saab manuals have it in there for an AD, but I thought it was normal to have that stuff listed in the POM.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Do most airlines not have set criteria of when to turn on the ice protection? Maybe the Saab manuals have it in there for an AD, but I thought it was normal to have that stuff listed in the POM.

Common sense dictates you turn on ice protection when it is icy...Silly concept I know, but that is common sense....

 

[JAFI]

Common sense is not all that common.


Pilot found comprssed air is cheaper than aviation oxygen so he had his tanks filled at welding shop with compressed air. They found his aircraft in pieces all over a field but the passenger was alive and in a tree.

"new hired jump pilot" took off up hill in 2 foot grass in a old C172 with 5 jumpers and himself. He had left main on a clear road but the nose and right main in the 2 foot grass. He clipped a barb wire fence with the left wing tip (wire fence left of road) and found a tree (standard 50' FAA tree) at the top of the hill. He tried to "make" the aircraft fly over the tree draging some of the wire fence on the left wing tip. The tree took out the left flap and most of the tail. Every one walked away. Well the jumpers ran away and the pilot had some "splanin" to do.

My favorate - Pilot doing loops in his super cub with a video camera taped in the cockpit looking forward. After the third loop from low altitude the tape showed him going through a tree. He went off to hospital and the Inspector found the camera in the cockpit (piper still in the tree). The audio was great. He was having fun until the tree strike. Then just gutteral moans of pain.

Still looking for that "Common Sense".....

Is there a Darwin Award just for aviation???

 

[JoeMerchant]

Common sense is not all that common.

Piper (or Cessna, I can't remember) aircraft flew into thunderstorm and family sued because flight manual did not say "Don't fly into thunderstorms".

Pilot found comprssed air is cheaper than aviation oxygen so he had his tanks filled at welding shop with compressed air. They found his aircraft in pieces all over a field but the passenger was alive and in a tree.

My favorate - Pilot doing loops in his super cub with a video camera taped in the cockpit looking forward. After the third loop from low altitude the tape showed him going through a tree. He went off to hospital and the Inspector found the camera in the cockpit (piper still in the tree). The audio was great. He was having fun until the tree strike. Then just gutteral moans of pain.

Is there a Darwin Award just for aviation???

We just need a placard that says flying may cause injury or death...

We need to let Darwinism work it's magic...

 

[JAFI]

Joe - you caught me in mid edit. I was adding a better story....

 

[jetRAT]

Tax dollars hard at work as usual. FAA is becoming almost as effective as the TSA

 

[SpaceShipEarth]

There was the guy who looped a Barron over Pine Mountain GA with a couple teenage kids on board with him for fun.... found the remains scattered all over the ridge line I believe. That was only a few years ago.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Tax dollars hard at work as usual. FAA is becoming almost as effective as the TSA

Remember, ALPA pushed for a federal security agency...They wanted more "security"....Be careful what you wish for...It's usually worse than the status quo......

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Nice, yet the updated rest rules have yet again been delayed..... Good to know where the priorities are. Excuse me while I barf.