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Tell your scariest/worst experience flying freight
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atpcliff
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
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- 4,260
Hi!
My stories don't hold a candle to Randy's, but here goes.
These are all KC-135R stories from 1991.
The Big One:
We took off uneventfully and hooked up with our F-117, to refuel/escort him up to his drop point. We had a pre-planned route to the drop point, and then we'd orbit and wait for him to show up off the target(s). As night wore on, we could see a big thunderstorm up ahead (the tanker had NO WX radar).
Unfortunately, we weren't hooked up to the F-117 (then a intercom is available), and, since we were in radio silence mode, we didn't call him to ask him his opinion. We debated back an forth about our course, the thunderstorm, and the drop off point.
Eventually, we decided that we needed to stay on our route, and we would tough it out through the thunderstorm. We were probably at about 25K.
We entered, and it got dark at first, but then we started getting St. Elmo's fire. It was bad, real bad. I was very, very quiet for the whole 45" it took us to fly through the thunderstorm. If you know me, that's almost impossible unless I'm asleep (or reading)!
There was basically very little turbulence, I guess only light, but there was lightning everywhere! And the St. Elmo's Fire! Holy smokes! Our whole pedestal, overhead panel, instrument panel, ALL the windscreens, and all of the fuselage and wings that we could see were TOTALLY covered in St. Elmo's fire, for at least 30"! Wow!
When we finally popped out of the thunderstorm, and had gotten some distance from it, we could look back. We couldn't see the tops! It went on and one forever, up into the sky (in Saudi, when they have thunderstorms, they're BIG!).
Afterwords, in talking with an F-117 guy on intercom, we found out that the route of course doesn't matter at all. They just need to be dropped at the drop point! Crap! Thanks for telling us now! At least we knew we didn't have to do it again!
Where'd He Come From?:
This time we were on the way home, with 4 F4-G Wild Weasels in tow. The F4-G was the anti-radar missle supression system. They would try and get the enemy AA radars to lock on to them and then launch a missle to destroy the AA radar site, which ususally is linked to several missles. Today, the F-16 does that job, or you go in with stealth aircraft and then you don't usually need the Wild Weasel support.
Anyway (not ANYWAYS-there's no such word!), we had the four of them on the wing, and luckily none of them were hooked up on the boom, at that point. I was flying. We were talking to an AWACS. They acted as ATC over there, in addition to being a target detection/warning/vector intercept system. Unfortunately, the AWACs crews weren't trained as ATC for massive numbers aircraft in a small airspace, as we had in Saudi. So, whenever AWACs gave us the all clear, we all had our heads on a swivel.
So, there I was, flying along with 4 F4-Gs on my wing. My AC (Aircraft Commander) got the call from AWACs that we were to return to base, and that all traffic was clear on our return route. My AC turned and looked at us, and said, "AWACs says it's all clear. Rightttttt."
About 5" later I was scanning to the right, and saw a medium sized puffy cloud at our altitude. All of a sudden, a KC-135R popped out of the cloud at 3 o'clock, right at our altitude and heading straight for us, about 1/2 mile away!
Holy crap! I instinctively pushed the yoke almost all the way forward, getting us into a slight negative G situation. As I was doing it, I realized that no one was on the boom, which was good, and I was hoping that all four of them were paying attention at that moment, as I didn't want them to be left up there all alone, to get run over by the other R model. I slowly leveled off, and we looked outside. All 4 our our little chicks were still there, safe and sound! Whew! Momma bird and all her babies were safe!
The Wrong Flight Level:
We were flying out of Cairo West, a thoroughly modern airport with every convenience. We were doing our typical, fly S. down the Red Sea, and then East to S. Iraq to refuel F-15s doing the MIGCAP patrol. I was flying in VMC, which may or may not have made any difference.
At a certain point, we would transfer controllers and they would climb us up from 25K up into the 30s. We got the ATC handoff, like normal, but then couldn't get the next ATC guy on the frequency. No problem, we think, we'll just go back to the last freq.
Well, the ATC equipment back then wasn't as good as the states-I hope it's better now. So, we can back, and....nothing. We try the new frequency....nothing. GREAT! Lost comm.
So, our big concern was our altitude. We knew when we got to this new freq, we normally climbed up. However, according to our AF rules for Lost Comm (which are basically the same as AIM), we were supposed to stay at our altitude until we go a new clearance.
Well, in between trying to get a hold of anyone, we debated what to do for about 20". We decided that neither decision was optimal, and we finally elected to follow the rules and stay where we were. WRONG!
About 10" later, I looked straight out the window, and saw a -737 nose down, diving beneath us. I reached for the controls (we were on AP) to pull up, but I was too late, and the -737 was already past us. I don't know if they had a fish-finder, and saw us early, or if they saw us visually because of the VMC. At any rate, I think if they hadn't seen us, I would've seen them too late, and there would've been a big, messy mid-air. There, but for the grace of God, go I.
About 5" later, we finally heard the new controller on the new freq, and he promptly climbed us up into the 30s, where he expected us to be since the handoff. Sometimes following the rules is the wrong choice.
Have a Great Day!
Cliff
ABY
My stories don't hold a candle to Randy's, but here goes.
These are all KC-135R stories from 1991.
The Big One:
We took off uneventfully and hooked up with our F-117, to refuel/escort him up to his drop point. We had a pre-planned route to the drop point, and then we'd orbit and wait for him to show up off the target(s). As night wore on, we could see a big thunderstorm up ahead (the tanker had NO WX radar).
Unfortunately, we weren't hooked up to the F-117 (then a intercom is available), and, since we were in radio silence mode, we didn't call him to ask him his opinion. We debated back an forth about our course, the thunderstorm, and the drop off point.
Eventually, we decided that we needed to stay on our route, and we would tough it out through the thunderstorm. We were probably at about 25K.
We entered, and it got dark at first, but then we started getting St. Elmo's fire. It was bad, real bad. I was very, very quiet for the whole 45" it took us to fly through the thunderstorm. If you know me, that's almost impossible unless I'm asleep (or reading)!
There was basically very little turbulence, I guess only light, but there was lightning everywhere! And the St. Elmo's Fire! Holy smokes! Our whole pedestal, overhead panel, instrument panel, ALL the windscreens, and all of the fuselage and wings that we could see were TOTALLY covered in St. Elmo's fire, for at least 30"! Wow!
When we finally popped out of the thunderstorm, and had gotten some distance from it, we could look back. We couldn't see the tops! It went on and one forever, up into the sky (in Saudi, when they have thunderstorms, they're BIG!).
Afterwords, in talking with an F-117 guy on intercom, we found out that the route of course doesn't matter at all. They just need to be dropped at the drop point! Crap! Thanks for telling us now! At least we knew we didn't have to do it again!
Where'd He Come From?:
This time we were on the way home, with 4 F4-G Wild Weasels in tow. The F4-G was the anti-radar missle supression system. They would try and get the enemy AA radars to lock on to them and then launch a missle to destroy the AA radar site, which ususally is linked to several missles. Today, the F-16 does that job, or you go in with stealth aircraft and then you don't usually need the Wild Weasel support.
Anyway (not ANYWAYS-there's no such word!), we had the four of them on the wing, and luckily none of them were hooked up on the boom, at that point. I was flying. We were talking to an AWACS. They acted as ATC over there, in addition to being a target detection/warning/vector intercept system. Unfortunately, the AWACs crews weren't trained as ATC for massive numbers aircraft in a small airspace, as we had in Saudi. So, whenever AWACs gave us the all clear, we all had our heads on a swivel.
So, there I was, flying along with 4 F4-Gs on my wing. My AC (Aircraft Commander) got the call from AWACs that we were to return to base, and that all traffic was clear on our return route. My AC turned and looked at us, and said, "AWACs says it's all clear. Rightttttt."
About 5" later I was scanning to the right, and saw a medium sized puffy cloud at our altitude. All of a sudden, a KC-135R popped out of the cloud at 3 o'clock, right at our altitude and heading straight for us, about 1/2 mile away!
Holy crap! I instinctively pushed the yoke almost all the way forward, getting us into a slight negative G situation. As I was doing it, I realized that no one was on the boom, which was good, and I was hoping that all four of them were paying attention at that moment, as I didn't want them to be left up there all alone, to get run over by the other R model. I slowly leveled off, and we looked outside. All 4 our our little chicks were still there, safe and sound! Whew! Momma bird and all her babies were safe!
The Wrong Flight Level:
We were flying out of Cairo West, a thoroughly modern airport with every convenience. We were doing our typical, fly S. down the Red Sea, and then East to S. Iraq to refuel F-15s doing the MIGCAP patrol. I was flying in VMC, which may or may not have made any difference.
At a certain point, we would transfer controllers and they would climb us up from 25K up into the 30s. We got the ATC handoff, like normal, but then couldn't get the next ATC guy on the frequency. No problem, we think, we'll just go back to the last freq.
Well, the ATC equipment back then wasn't as good as the states-I hope it's better now. So, we can back, and....nothing. We try the new frequency....nothing. GREAT! Lost comm.
So, our big concern was our altitude. We knew when we got to this new freq, we normally climbed up. However, according to our AF rules for Lost Comm (which are basically the same as AIM), we were supposed to stay at our altitude until we go a new clearance.
Well, in between trying to get a hold of anyone, we debated what to do for about 20". We decided that neither decision was optimal, and we finally elected to follow the rules and stay where we were. WRONG!
About 10" later, I looked straight out the window, and saw a -737 nose down, diving beneath us. I reached for the controls (we were on AP) to pull up, but I was too late, and the -737 was already past us. I don't know if they had a fish-finder, and saw us early, or if they saw us visually because of the VMC. At any rate, I think if they hadn't seen us, I would've seen them too late, and there would've been a big, messy mid-air. There, but for the grace of God, go I.
About 5" later, we finally heard the new controller on the new freq, and he promptly climbed us up into the 30s, where he expected us to be since the handoff. Sometimes following the rules is the wrong choice.
Have a Great Day!
Cliff
ABY
Great stories...now look what you've done!
You'll enjoy Airnet, I have a good friend working there.
I think the scariest thing to have happened to me was taking off last winter from Midland, flying to Lubbock (about a 40 minute flight), and realizing that I hit the TKS on with my clipboard after doing my paperwork in Austin - and it was reading a big fat zero...
Probably the scariest thing will be flying into a thunderstorm for the first time...the thought is scary, but actually doing it becomes a challenge, one that I enjoy every now and again.
Flysher said:
You'll enjoy Airnet, I have a good friend working there.
I think the scariest thing to have happened to me was taking off last winter from Midland, flying to Lubbock (about a 40 minute flight), and realizing that I hit the TKS on with my clipboard after doing my paperwork in Austin - and it was reading a big fat zero...
Probably the scariest thing will be flying into a thunderstorm for the first time...the thought is scary, but actually doing it becomes a challenge, one that I enjoy every now and again.
Captain Oveur
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2006
- Posts
- 103
It's statistically more likely, the longer you fly, but it's never something
you do other than accidentally. If you get in the habit, better make sure
your life insurance is paid up. I've gotten into bad turbulence flying
in unstable air at night. You'll get building CUs that don't have enough
moisture to show up on radar, but can contain severe turbulence...
you do other than accidentally. If you get in the habit, better make sure
your life insurance is paid up. I've gotten into bad turbulence flying
in unstable air at night. You'll get building CUs that don't have enough
moisture to show up on radar, but can contain severe turbulence...
Flysher said:
Sooner or later you will. I always try to find a way around them, and there usually is - that's the challenge I was talking about. I'll never make a point of diliberately flying into one, however, yellow echoes on the radar don't scare me as much as they used to.
Knowing where the worst weather can be found around a storm is helpful...the worst tubulence I've experienced has been in clear air, after a storm blew through, other than turbulence, hail is a concern - hail can usually be found in front of a storm. Heavy rain on the otherhand usually isn't so bad...but every situation is different, and has to be weighed against your experience/comfort level.
Nolife
Tired Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2003
- Posts
- 547
"The funny thing is that when I called my CP and DO and explained, they kept saying. Well dude! it sounds like a CG problem, you just need to pay more attention to the loading. I answered "can you guys please just check the airplane?". 2 hours later they call me back..........
"Hey, well ummm.....you should've never taken off from CVG, the airplane is in bad shape. We could've lost you." I felt like saying, "wait, so it wasnt a CG problem?????"--- You work for MRA?
I had to use a crow bar to get my butt off the Caravan's seat once going into OK City. I hit freezing rain just before the marker and shot a no flaps, full power ILS to mins indicating only 130 kts. I was flicking the manual boot switch like crazy to no avail while hand flying. Thank goodness for the 10K plus rwys there.
After I unloaded the freight I smoked a pack of cigarettes in about 2 minutes then went to sleep in the pilot's lounge until the weather cleared the east coast of the US before continuing on.
"Hey, well ummm.....you should've never taken off from CVG, the airplane is in bad shape. We could've lost you." I felt like saying, "wait, so it wasnt a CG problem?????"--- You work for MRA?
I had to use a crow bar to get my butt off the Caravan's seat once going into OK City. I hit freezing rain just before the marker and shot a no flaps, full power ILS to mins indicating only 130 kts. I was flicking the manual boot switch like crazy to no avail while hand flying. Thank goodness for the 10K plus rwys there.
After I unloaded the freight I smoked a pack of cigarettes in about 2 minutes then went to sleep in the pilot's lounge until the weather cleared the east coast of the US before continuing on.
I have no basis of comparison, other than flight instructing this is my only flying job, but I thought that the training was good. They had classes on radar, and flying in ice. Yes I have flown through Tstorms, yes I have been scared. Usually they are not as bad as you would expect. However just when you start feeling bullet proof mother nature/God (whatever your preference) will give you a reality check. Go with your gut, it is always right, do not let dispatch or other pilots bully you into what you believe is an unsafe situation.Flysher said:
You will learn (more by doing, rather than in an academic enviroment) how to avoid storms, and how to penitrate a line.
Have fun in class,
WDR11
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