Tell your scariest/worst experience flying freight

[Avimec]

My two years at AT...... J/K ;-)

Although flying a 1956 vintage turbine Convair across the South China Sea might sound scary to most, I had a blast doing it! I wouldn't do it again at the same pay rate, thats for sure!

Oh yea my time at AT would qualify as scary stuff, Ive seen the worst and hoping for the best. Keep up the good work guys, gotta move that cargo.:uzi:

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

My stories don't hold a candle to Randy's, but here goes.

These are all KC-135R stories from 1991.

The Big One:
We took off uneventfully and hooked up with our F-117, to refuel/escort him up to his drop point. We had a pre-planned route to the drop point, and then we'd orbit and wait for him to show up off the target(s). As night wore on, we could see a big thunderstorm up ahead (the tanker had NO WX radar).

Unfortunately, we weren't hooked up to the F-117 (then a intercom is available), and, since we were in radio silence mode, we didn't call him to ask him his opinion. We debated back an forth about our course, the thunderstorm, and the drop off point.

Eventually, we decided that we needed to stay on our route, and we would tough it out through the thunderstorm. We were probably at about 25K.

We entered, and it got dark at first, but then we started getting St. Elmo's fire. It was bad, real bad. I was very, very quiet for the whole 45" it took us to fly through the thunderstorm. If you know me, that's almost impossible unless I'm asleep (or reading)!

There was basically very little turbulence, I guess only light, but there was lightning everywhere! And the St. Elmo's Fire! Holy smokes! Our whole pedestal, overhead panel, instrument panel, ALL the windscreens, and all of the fuselage and wings that we could see were TOTALLY covered in St. Elmo's fire, for at least 30"! Wow!

When we finally popped out of the thunderstorm, and had gotten some distance from it, we could look back. We couldn't see the tops! It went on and one forever, up into the sky (in Saudi, when they have thunderstorms, they're BIG!).

Afterwords, in talking with an F-117 guy on intercom, we found out that the route of course doesn't matter at all. They just need to be dropped at the drop point! Crap! Thanks for telling us now! At least we knew we didn't have to do it again!


Where'd He Come From?:
This time we were on the way home, with 4 F4-G Wild Weasels in tow. The F4-G was the anti-radar missle supression system. They would try and get the enemy AA radars to lock on to them and then launch a missle to destroy the AA radar site, which ususally is linked to several missles. Today, the F-16 does that job, or you go in with stealth aircraft and then you don't usually need the Wild Weasel support.

Anyway (not ANYWAYS-there's no such word!), we had the four of them on the wing, and luckily none of them were hooked up on the boom, at that point. I was flying. We were talking to an AWACS. They acted as ATC over there, in addition to being a target detection/warning/vector intercept system. Unfortunately, the AWACs crews weren't trained as ATC for massive numbers aircraft in a small airspace, as we had in Saudi. So, whenever AWACs gave us the all clear, we all had our heads on a swivel.

So, there I was, flying along with 4 F4-Gs on my wing. My AC (Aircraft Commander) got the call from AWACs that we were to return to base, and that all traffic was clear on our return route. My AC turned and looked at us, and said, "AWACs says it's all clear. Rightttttt."

About 5" later I was scanning to the right, and saw a medium sized puffy cloud at our altitude. All of a sudden, a KC-135R popped out of the cloud at 3 o'clock, right at our altitude and heading straight for us, about 1/2 mile away!

Holy crap! I instinctively pushed the yoke almost all the way forward, getting us into a slight negative G situation. As I was doing it, I realized that no one was on the boom, which was good, and I was hoping that all four of them were paying attention at that moment, as I didn't want them to be left up there all alone, to get run over by the other R model. I slowly leveled off, and we looked outside. All 4 our our little chicks were still there, safe and sound! Whew! Momma bird and all her babies were safe!


The Wrong Flight Level:
We were flying out of Cairo West, a thoroughly modern airport with every convenience. We were doing our typical, fly S. down the Red Sea, and then East to S. Iraq to refuel F-15s doing the MIGCAP patrol. I was flying in VMC, which may or may not have made any difference.

At a certain point, we would transfer controllers and they would climb us up from 25K up into the 30s. We got the ATC handoff, like normal, but then couldn't get the next ATC guy on the frequency. No problem, we think, we'll just go back to the last freq.

Well, the ATC equipment back then wasn't as good as the states-I hope it's better now. So, we can back, and....nothing. We try the new frequency....nothing. GREAT! Lost comm.

So, our big concern was our altitude. We knew when we got to this new freq, we normally climbed up. However, according to our AF rules for Lost Comm (which are basically the same as AIM), we were supposed to stay at our altitude until we go a new clearance.

Well, in between trying to get a hold of anyone, we debated what to do for about 20". We decided that neither decision was optimal, and we finally elected to follow the rules and stay where we were. WRONG!

About 10" later, I looked straight out the window, and saw a -737 nose down, diving beneath us. I reached for the controls (we were on AP) to pull up, but I was too late, and the -737 was already past us. I don't know if they had a fish-finder, and saw us early, or if they saw us visually because of the VMC. At any rate, I think if they hadn't seen us, I would've seen them too late, and there would've been a big, messy mid-air. There, but for the grace of God, go I.

About 5" later, we finally heard the new controller on the new freq, and he promptly climbed us up into the 30s, where he expected us to be since the handoff. Sometimes following the rules is the wrong choice.

Have a Great Day!

Cliff
ABY

 

[NoPax]

Great stories...now look what you've done!

Yup your correct no cargo flying on my side, although Im in Airnet's hiring pool so that won't be for long :-D

I was just hoping to start a thread with a buncha good stories sorta like the poop thread

You'll enjoy Airnet, I have a good friend working there.

I think the scariest thing to have happened to me was taking off last winter from Midland, flying to Lubbock (about a 40 minute flight), and realizing that I hit the TKS on with my clipboard after doing my paperwork in Austin - and it was reading a big fat zero...

Probably the scariest thing will be flying into a thunderstorm for the first time...the thought is scary, but actually doing it becomes a challenge, one that I enjoy every now and again.

 

[Flysher]

Probably the scariest thing will be flying into a thunderstorm for the first time...the thought is scary, but actually doing it becomes a challenge, one that I enjoy every now and again.

Pardon if this is a dumb question, but is flying into a thunderstorm more or less inevitable after flying freight for long enough?

Have most / all freight guys done it?

 

[Captain Oveur]

It's statistically more likely, the longer you fly, but it's never something
you do other than accidentally. If you get in the habit, better make sure
your life insurance is paid up. I've gotten into bad turbulence flying
in unstable air at night. You'll get building CUs that don't have enough
moisture to show up on radar, but can contain severe turbulence...

 

[NoPax]

Pardon if this is a dumb question, but is flying into a thunderstorm more or less inevitable after flying freight for long enough?

Have most / all freight guys done it?

Sooner or later you will. I always try to find a way around them, and there usually is - that's the challenge I was talking about. I'll never make a point of diliberately flying into one, however, yellow echoes on the radar don't scare me as much as they used to.

Knowing where the worst weather can be found around a storm is helpful...the worst tubulence I've experienced has been in clear air, after a storm blew through, other than turbulence, hail is a concern - hail can usually be found in front of a storm. Heavy rain on the otherhand usually isn't so bad...but every situation is different, and has to be weighed against your experience/comfort level.

 

[Flysher]

thanks for the answers guys.

How in depth does Airnet go into weather and such during training?

 

[Nolife]

"The funny thing is that when I called my CP and DO and explained, they kept saying. Well dude! it sounds like a CG problem, you just need to pay more attention to the loading. I answered "can you guys please just check the airplane?". 2 hours later they call me back..........
"Hey, well ummm.....you should've never taken off from CVG, the airplane is in bad shape. We could've lost you." I felt like saying, "wait, so it wasnt a CG problem?????"--- You work for MRA?

I had to use a crow bar to get my butt off the Caravan's seat once going into OK City. I hit freezing rain just before the marker and shot a no flaps, full power ILS to mins indicating only 130 kts. I was flicking the manual boot switch like crazy to no avail while hand flying. Thank goodness for the 10K plus rwys there.

After I unloaded the freight I smoked a pack of cigarettes in about 2 minutes then went to sleep in the pilot's lounge until the weather cleared the east coast of the US before continuing on.

 

[uscpilot]

thanks for the answers guys.

How in depth does Airnet go into weather and such during training?

I have no basis of comparison, other than flight instructing this is my only flying job, but I thought that the training was good. They had classes on radar, and flying in ice. Yes I have flown through Tstorms, yes I have been scared. Usually they are not as bad as you would expect. However just when you start feeling bullet proof mother nature/God (whatever your preference) will give you a reality check. Go with your gut, it is always right, do not let dispatch or other pilots bully you into what you believe is an unsafe situation.
You will learn (more by doing, rather than in an academic enviroment) how to avoid storms, and how to penitrate a line.
Have fun in class,
WDR11

 

[NoPax]

How in depth does Airnet go into weather and such during training?

As I understand it, they do 6 weeks of training, including airplane specific training, and it is very thorough...you'll be in good hands.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Pardon if this is a dumb question, but is flying into a thunderstorm more or less inevitable after flying freight for long enough?

Have most / all freight guys done it?

Sooner or later you will have to deal with one. Sometimes the big red
splotches are filled with rain and no turb. Sometimes, the little ones give
you one hell of a kick. It becomes second nature to pick through imbeded
storms. The interesting part starts when you have an electrical failure
(or two) like losing the radar (or even having one in the first place).

I have no really scary stories to tell in cargo. All of my pucker inducing
moments were in corperate.

CE

 

[inthewind]

Though not cargo I also have some scary stories from flying the AH-1W Cobra.

Once on an NVG/Hellfire missile training flight I was flying as -2 and as I a good wingman I was only looking at lead. Next thing I know the hair on the back of my neck stands up so I look away from lead out front. I realize that he is flying through a gap in a ridge but that I am headed straight for the side of the ridge in America Mine at 29 Palms. I instinctively pulled the collective into my armpit, we missed the ridgetop by a few feet. I was shaking for a while after that one. It took a few beers to calm down after the flight.

Another occasion in Saudi, we had dropped off the Huey out of our flight of three. Again I'm dash two in a flight of three. Lead says over the radio that we are headed 180 at 80 kts. The Huey took off and is trying to catch up to my anticollision light that he thinks is headed south at 80 kts, meanwhile lead callsign "Genius" has decided that he wants to head back to the boat on a 090 heading without telling anyone. Well me as a good dash two is looking at him and staying in position, not looking at my RMI. Next thing I know Genius yells something unintelligible over the radio and starts to descend (we were at 300') I decide that if he's going down so am I. Next thing I know a Huey passes over the top of us with less that 10' to spare.

On a formation training flight in Socal my dash two lost sight of me during a center turn. My Copilot says to me, "Zipper it looks like he's gonna hit us!" As lead it is my job to look at where the flight is going, not at my dash two, but I look over and immediately agree. I rolled the helo over to 90 degrees AOB and pulled for all I was worth. Well dash two was still on a collision course with no idea where we were so I rolled the beast inverted and pulled even harder. (My copilot said that he had never felt more g's in a helo nor seen the collective so high in all his life.) Dash two passed so close that I could see the streaks of grease on the rivets on the bottom of his bird as he passed overhead. Once he passed I thought, "great, I made it through that but here I am in the middle of a split-S in an aircraft that doesn't do inverted flight!" Somehow I pulled it through the dive and recovered. I landed in the grass by the runway and shook uncontrollably for about 20 minutes after that one. Needless to say there were a few choice words exchanged in the readyroom in the de-brief.

Last and definitely worst! I was ferrying a PA-23-160 for a buddy of mine when the right engine $hit itself right after takeoff. I was maybe 100' off the deck and had no hope of that beast flying. I couldn't turn into the good engine so was forced to try to land in a goat pasture. The airplane now sits in a junkyard and I got to spend a month in the hospital and six months in physical therapy second guessing that flight. I have steel plates and screws in my leg to remind me. My ex-wife has a quarter mil to remind her of the incident.

Anyway, good luck at Airnet. Remember that if there is ever a doubt about whether or not you should takeoff then there is no doubt. It's much better to be tardy than absent.

 

[Flysher]

I have no really scary stories to tell in cargo. All of my pucker inducing
moments were in corperate.

CE

well lets here em anyway!!!

:beer:

 

[Flysher]

Anyway, good luck at Airnet. Remember that if there is ever a doubt about whether or not you should takeoff then there is no doubt. It's much better to be tardy than absent.

Thanks alot! Good words to live by there, I'll remember that.

 

[cforst513]

Anyway, good luck at Airnet. Remember that if there is ever a doubt about whether or not you should takeoff then there is no doubt. It's much better to be tardy than absent.

how much do they allow you to be tardy b/c of weather before they start to question your flying abilities? basically, if they find that you divert for most of the weather, is airnet going to keep you on very long?

 

[uscpilot]

how much do they allow you to be tardy b/c of weather before they start to question your flying abilities? basically, if they find that you divert for most of the weather, is airnet going to keep you on very long?

I dont know of anyone that was fired for this. That does not mean that it has not happened. If there was a problem the pilot in question would go to LCK and have a talk with the CP, and possibly an ACP, or the DO. Not really a big deal, they just want to know what the problem is. People that I know of that have done this either got over it and kept flying, or quit. Like I said I dont know of anyone fired for just this.
If you are scared chew on this: we have never lost a pilot to weather. Of our four fatalities two fell asleep, one wake turbulence, and the last was a fire while airborne. With the training and the experience that you gain on the line you will quickly develope good judgement. In my experience the flight department is fairly understanding of baggage that comes with having a green pilot (dispatch on the other hand, well...).
The question implys that there is a black and white answer, there isnt one. The best answer I can give is not to worry about getting fired for delaying or diverting for weather. Hundreds of freight pups just like you have come through the ranks of Airnet (or any 135 freight) and grown into better pilots.
Good Luck!!
WDR11

 

[inthewind]

how much do they allow you to be tardy b/c of weather before they start to question your flying abilities? basically, if they find that you divert for most of the weather, is airnet going to keep you on very long?

cforst,
In sixteen and a half years I have only diverted four times. And cancelled a handful. My comfort margin is often larger than my FOs'. What I am saying is when it is too bad to fly in my/your opinion then it's too bad. Call dispatch the CP or whoever but better to live to fly another day.

 

[cforst513]

i wouldnt say that i am scared of the weather. it's more inexperience than anything. i still have a long ways to go before i meet airnet's mins, but i would love to go there eventually. sounds like a great place to work, build time, etc. thanks for the info, though.

 

[jeroom]

Flying F/O on the mighty L-188 Electra on a Emery contract DEN-MCI-DAY-PHL-BDL back in 1979, we had 1 st generation black and white radar, tuff to pick out anything but level 3 or better. We are solid IFR at night. Had the autopilot on, airplane starts loosing altitude, so I click off the autopilot, I can not move the elevator, this is serious enough that we wake up the FE, we look outside with the inspection light and find we are covered with ice, we flew into freezing rain. We are now going down about 1,000/minute. We try boost out, cycling the hyd pumps; we are still going down. About 11,000' over the center of Kansas OAT goes above 0, ice pops off, and everything was normal. We flew to MCI at 11,000' F/E even stayed awake.

Good one...

 

[Flyingdude]

Too many to pick just one

Their was too many incidents to actually pick one out. Between the crap planes and equally bad weather it was interesting almost daily. Between the failed windsheild heat strip with a solid sheet of ice, boots that are always half infated, gyro issues, radios failing in IMC, cabin heaters that fail often in the winter time, brake failures, engine failure, fuel pooring out from one of the cowlings just after takeoff, all instrument lights that go out in IMC at night which requires you to hand fly an instrument app. working the yoke and throttle with one hand and holding the flashlight on the panel with the other, flying in heavy rain with water leaking onto the electrical panel below your left arm just to mention a few cases of many more. Anyone that has been a freightdog in bad airplanes knows what I am talking about, you have all been there. After 1,000 hrs. of that, I would never do it again even if I was starving to death.

 

[Dumbluck]

the worst flying story is the one i don't remeber hypocritic a$$ holes somebooby take my computer before i sy something stupid..

 

[NoPax]

Their was too many incidents to actually pick one out. Between the crap planes and equally bad weather it was interesting almost daily. Between the failed windsheild heat strip with a solid sheet of ice, boots that are always half infated, gyro issues, radios failing in IMC, cabin heaters that fail often in the winter time, brake failures, engine failure, fuel pooring out from one of the cowlings just after takeoff, all instrument lights that go out in IMC at night which requires you to hand fly an instrument app. working the yoke and throttle with one hand and holding the flashlight on the panel with the other, flying in heavy rain with water leaking onto the electrical panel below your left arm just to mention a few cases of many more. Anyone that has been a freightdog in bad airplanes knows what I am talking about, you have all been there. After 1,000 hrs. of that, I would never do it again even if I was starving to death.

Dude....the wambulence is on it's way:bawling:

The thing I really like about freight flying is that I don't have to listen to this! Single-pilot definately has it's advantages.

When the chips are down, I always think that someone somewhere is having or has had a worse day than I have. That said, possibly the worst time I've had flying freight was when I was loading the airplane, and took a fingernail off on a rivet...that's the most pain I've been in, in my life - try tuning radios, advancing throttles, setting props and mixture with no thumbnail. Not a joke...it really hurt, but I sucked it up and "got 'er done"

 

[leardawg]

Early days as SIC; cruising along in a LR-24 @FL410, at night, flew into thunderstorm (single cell, no TRWs forecast, radar not turned on). Had dual engine flameout. Talk about Mr. Toads Wild Ride!!! Flew out of it. Got one re-lit, leveled off @ 16,000'. Rel-lit the other, flew home w/o further incident. Drank a few extra beers that night, bought new underwear, considered changing careers, ultimately couldn't give up free popcorn..

 

[ShortBusTim]

Preflight.

 

[81Horse]

That said, possibly the worst time I've had flying freight was when I was loading the airplane, and took a fingernail off on a rivet...that's the most pain I've been in, in my life - try tuning radios, advancing throttles, setting props and mixture with no thumbnail. Not a joke...it really hurt, but I sucked it up and "got 'er done"

Gloves, man -- gloves.

I got beat up by a Beech 99 airstair door once -- excruciating bruise and scrape from right knee to waist, plus three cracked ribs. I sucked it up and flew home, too -- but I couldn't pull the levers into reverse for a month.

So that was the worst. As for scary -- well, I think "mis-sort" says it all.

 

[Lostdog65]

After 1,000 hrs. of that, I would never do it again even if I was starving to death.

Knock wood. I said the exact same thing in Oct of 2000...Nov of 2005 I was back at it albeit only as a fill in. Hunger has a way of coloring what you feel about cargo. I'm still looking for another job...this one pays the bills and puts beans on the table.

Eric

 

[Princedietrich]

Dude, you can afford BEANS?! :beer: