Ted gets star-ted at DEN, LAS

[B1900DFO]

IB6 UB9,

Nowhere in my post did I attack anybody for trying to get a good job. The only pilots I have a problem with are the ones who cheer on the demise of good paying airline jobs. I don't lay the blame with individual pilots I think it has more to do with Alpa's policy that divides us instead of taking a stand on pilot wages. I understand why t-bags would be disgusted at the way some on this board seem to drool over the fact that our best jobs are disapearing. So you have an interview with jet blue, GREAT. I would be happy as hell if they gave me an interview. And by the way, Who gives a #hit how many hours you have???

 

[skirt]

As to Skirt, she won't admit it, but I'll bet she is already having second thoughts. What's her strike price? I will say this, she alluded to the fact that she wasn't being hired as just another line pilot. If she is at JB to "give away" UAL's CLR program, something developed over the years at a considerable cost, then it strikes me as somewhat sleazy...

T-Bags,

I don't particularly wish to get into a pissing match with you, however I will set your record straight. First off, I don't have second thoughts about being JB. Yes, my strike price is sky high, but if all that mattered in this world was how much $$$ I make I wouldn't have left UAL.

Second I did indeed come over here as a regular line pilot. I am on reserve, sitting in the frozen tundra of Winnipeg waiting to pick up a plane from maintenance, as we speak, just like a regular reserve.

I am not "giving away" UAL's CLR (CRM) program, it wouldn't work here anyway. The United program was set up for United's needs and works best in United's environment. It is a good one, but it is United's. Jetblue is talking to all the airlines right now, and gathering input from all the pilot's in its own ranks as it develops a new program. Afterall, that is what CRM is all about, isn't it? Using all the resources available to develop a plan.

In fact, the Jetblue CRM team has visited several other airlines besides UAL. Delta practically rolled out the red carpet to help. There is no "competition" in the area of safety and training. Jetblue developed a good security training video and has shared it with the industry.

I can assure you, anything I know or could share about UAL CRM is simply common sense, no trade secrets, and all fully above board. Anyone who knows me, knows that I'm as above board as can be. As for why I am helping in this area? I was asked...after I was hired. There are lots of pilots at Jetblue who like to help make their company the best it could be...I'm just one of hundreds...(what a great concept). Yes, I am just a line pilot, and a junior one at that. I have the same pay, benefits, options and high strike price as everyone else in my new-hire class.

Skirt

P.S. Getting back to the subject of this thread. I wish United and the Ted venture the very best of success. I have many friends on the bus there who are/will be part of the Ted operation. I obviously watch with interest, but not because I wish I was still there. Rather because I care about my friends, and also because I like to look at competition in the sporting sense....good competition brings out the best in people. Go Ted.

 

[T-Bags]

Skirt, You have every right to flame me. My accusation was a drive-by, was inappropriate and should not have been made. Although I had my concerns, they should have been handled via PM. Agiain, inappropriate and an invasion of your privacy. Maybe I just don't like the idea of you changing your "stickers"... .

My concern about CRM is best summed up this way. I think Jepps are VITAL to safety. Wonderful tools. Every crew should have a set. If you are shooting an approach to mins with my family in the back, I WANT you to have them, even if you Zeroxed somebody elses... Having said that, you should respect the intellectual property of others and pay for it. Kudos on Jetblu if they are actually spending funds to contribute to industry safety.

 

[skirt]

T-Bags,

Apology accepted.

And...there is no need to worry, if Jetblue was going to use any UAL proprietary information, they would either pay for it, or have permission to use it. Same for any content used in any training program. I don't have, nor have I shared, anything that would be considered proprietary.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to set the record straight.
CRM in action.

Skirt

 

[Mr.B]

<<<I think T-bags is just extremely frustrated to see the erosion of our profession. I agree with the guy. It is sad to see companies like Dal and Ual replaced by outfits like Air Tran, Frt, JBL, etc. >>>


You are correct sir...we are frustrated to see the erosion of the profession....albiet temporary.

The climate will change, and those who spew their LCC crap will come running to the "majors" for jobs. Happened before, it will happen again. Myself and my furloughed pals will not forget.

 

[T-Bags]

Mugs,
You have know idea what my background is, but yes it includes military service. If there was something we learned there, it was the concept of mutual support.... Something that others never picked up. I would have expected a PM from you that said "bags, I think your COUNTER-attacks are a little harsh"... I would have read your point, I'd responded and we'd likely have at least understood each other... Mutual support. As to military entitlement, nah, I quickly got cured of that and until I see a "MPDC" I'll contend that there are far more 28 YO RJ Capts with a sense of entitlement than 40 YO former military officers. If anything, my military days show me just how "unfair" the cold harsh world is. It's tough seeing some outstanding individuals getting passed over by your own airline and even worse when you see them get passed by completely. If I disagree with any of you assessments in the future, I'll give you the courtesy of a PM. It's not my practise to launch "pre-emptive strikes" In the past, I've usually adhered to the concept of "massive retaliation" You'll see from the thread that I've only counterattacked, while being civil and having what I view as constructive exchange with folks like Jdub, F9 and Ty.

Boeingman, In the words of the great 20th century philosopher Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along"? I have issues with your constant and IMHO unfounded bashing of UAL. I'm beginning to understand that you feel they mistreated your contemporaries. Fair enough, and there is some truth to that. Likewise, I’ve always felt NWA, CAL, and AMR holding pilot costs down (with the help from the respective unions) were part of the reason UAL went BK and gave a baseline (per hour pilot cost at CAL) for UAL management to beat pilot costs to in BK. I think the inaction will directly lead to lower wages industry wide. Who’s right? Both of us probably are to some extent. No pilot group is perfect. From my perspective, I want us to work TOGETHER for the PROFESSION. Everything else is superfluous history.

B1900, and Mr. B,
BINGO

IB6, not faulting your decision. You have to feed your family. Last I checked there was no picket line at B6. What I envision is an industry that supports the profession. The mechanism must be in place before it can happen however, and when I talk about pay rates and contracts, I am attacking concepts, not people. We need to bring pay rates up EVERYWHERE.

Jdub, min pay IMHO for the 320 should be around 200 per hour MINIMUM (total compensation package). I believe in the concept set forth by decision 83 and as such think that is a minimum that also puts a B1900 and CL65 at livable rates. But my opinion doesn’t matter. A minimum would require CONCENSUS from all the major airline groups (including B6). One airline backs out, and it falls apart. I’d then have a 3-5% per year escalation. In all honesty, I think the DAL and UAL contracts were finally where pilot pay rates should have been long term

 

[JayDub]

Jdub, min pay IMHO for the 320 should be around 200 per hour MINIMUM (total compensation package). I believe in the concept set forth by decision 83 and as such think that is a minimum that also puts a B1900 and CL65 at livable rates. But my opinion doesn’t matter. A minimum would require CONCENSUS from all the major airline groups (including B6). One airline backs out, and it falls apart. I’d then have a 3-5% per year escalation. In all honesty, I think the DAL and UAL contracts were finally where pilot pay rates should have been long term

First, I have no idea what my total would be under your formula. I get time and a half for anything over 70 hours. That really skews your total. You also have to account for 17% profit sharing from this last year. In addition, I have heard you can add 25% to any salary for medical, dental, vacation, etc. You start doing the math, and we really aren't that far off, best as I can tell.

Personally, I am much more of a work rules and safety kind of guy. That's not to discount you for focusing on your pay rate, I just choose not to.

I think it's not a secret you have to spend quite a bit of money to develop infrastructure when you first start a business. Right now my company is spending tons on improving my QOL (pref bidding packages, pairing optimizers, etc.), my safety (human factors surveys, safety audits, etc), and my training (new training center in MCO, new syllabus, etc.) not to mention all of the facilities it takes to run an airline that is hard to quantify here. Fortunately for you your company long ago put these systems in place, and has long since paid for them. We are not so lucky. I have no problem doing my part to help the company improve for my long-term well-being. I believe it is just a part of the risk v. reward equation.

As far as your equation, BEST OF LUCK!!!! Heck, your own union won't even commit to something like this, citing it would place an undue influence on the power of individual MECs to negotiate their own contracts. Total B.S. if you ask me. I like your idea, but it just won't ever happen. Get Duane Woerth to commit, and I'll do my part to try to introduce your idea to my senior management. Personally, I don't think you stand a chance in heck of getting him to commit on something like this plan.

Respectfully,

JayDub

 

[climbhappy]

TED

passengers aren't smart enough to know the difference.

accounting rules will delta or song bury whatever costs they what to .

I want somebody to argue that given the number of prosecutions going on, that corporate accounting standards are impeccable and totally 100% honest.

delta spent over a million bucs on a fancy smancy sales office in the SOHO district. I would think the brand is working for them.

 

[T-Bags]

Jdub, that 25% is low. The cost of bene's is usually closer to 45%. Overtime shouldn't count (it's extra) nor would profit sharing (not a guarentee). As to your preference for better schedule, and QWL, less emphasis on pay rates would allow more emphasis on the intangibles... I'm with on that.

 

[JayDub]

Whether or not overtime is extra, it still spends the same. Profit sharing is in my retirement account, and I can do with it as I please. Again, it may not count to some but it sure spends the same.

When we've been in business long enough to have our infrastructure in place, then you can judge us on an equal footing. Aside from that, when you look at what I actually get to spend in a year, and what your Airbus Captains get to spend in a year, we are a lot closer than you'd think. Not bad for a four year old company versus an 80 year old one.

I have been here almost three years. In that time, bidding is so much better, and is light years ahead of most other places. The insurance is darn good, and is equal to what the folks at DHL (AStar now) pay for coverage. I am going to take the last month and a half of this year off as paid vacation.

I am backed up by my chief pilot's office, I get enough hours to live on and enough time off to enjoy it, and I get good safe equipment to do my job with professionalism and pride. Those three items alone put me light years ahead of anywhere I've worked before.

It may be better somewhere else, but I doubt it. I have spent my entire career admiring greener grass on the other side of the fence. It's not perfect, but at least they take our input as they build their company.

These are the things that are important to me. It takes a lot more than a number under "pay rate" to make me happy. Then again, that is just me. We all are free to seek what makes us happy. I hope you have found, or will find, happiness in your career. As a good friend told me once, "You have the rest of your career to be miserable". It may not last, but I am enjoying what I have while I have it.

Respectfully,

JayDub