Ted gets star-ted at DEN, LAS

[T-Bags]

hmm, boeingboy is very senior and has first hand knowledge of the FAL days.... hmmm. hope my comment didn't hit to close to home...

 

[cornbread]

Ted's Song

(Johnny Cash singing)

I'm going down, down, down, in a burning ring of fire..."


In what universe, or dimension, is it fiscally viable to launch multi-million dollar venture when you are bleeding cash? Apparently in the UAL and DAL HQ buildings. Truely unbelievable.

I sincerely include the employees of United in my prayers. It seems as though the corporate leadership is set on effecting the company's demise.

If UAL and DAL pilots made decisions at work as insane as those of their corporate leaders , their airlines would only exist after a flight or two.

Can you imagine:
"Captain, we only have enough fuel to get us halfway over the Atlantic!" "That's true, but we have a lot of potable water."

"Captain, you are two and half dots high on the glides slope!"
"Yeah, but we are fast."

 

[Boeingman]

hmm, boeingboy is very senior and has first hand knowledge of the FAL days.... hmmm. hope my comment didn't hit to close to home...

Sorry to dissappoint you ball boy, but I'm a full term CAL striker.
25 months on a picket line give me the right to form my own opinions about our pilots and what is best for us.

I'm starting to think you're not even a pilot. Most of us use the term "common" for 23.45 and anybody with an ounce of intelligence regarding airline unions and contracts know that the contract process is not signed or "given" by an LEC.

What hits close to home is my family was directly affected by the actions of arrogant pricks over at UAL/ALPA during the FAL/UAL issue. So tell us...where does the term Brain Surgeon come from?

 

[Dizel8]

Actually its: We are losing a little on every seat, but we make it for it in volume.

 

[General Lee]

cornbread,

You sound like a genius. First of all, Song was made to combat Jetblue, and it has---it is a buffer and has done well for being less than one year old---regardless of what one analyst says who supposedly has the numbers that nobody else can find. The flights have been full--and if we can't make money on that--then it is a marketing problem or a revenue problem--all above my pay scale. TED's plan is different than Songs---because they go into their own hubs and canibalize their own routes that used to be mainline. Song doesn't do that--they take the low fare people and fly them nonstop to FLA---while allowing our hub seats to go at a premium for RJ passengers in ATL and CVG. As to why we are "bleeding?" Well---our managment likes to park MD-11s in the desert while we still have to pay for them, and they like to purchase new uniforms for our stews, and they won't accept partial pay cuts from us that would save them nearly $400 million a year NOW.....But you already knew that.......


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[T-Bags]

"Actually its: We are losing a little on every seat, but we make it for it in volume."

Actually booked load factors are reported to be around 90%. None of us will know for sure for some time, but the folks who actually have money at stake seem to be pleased...


Boeingboy,
if you really did strike, then your "philosophy" is even more scummy. Kind of makes you a collaborater. Selling out your brothers and what you should know is right for a few more pieces of bread and some extra privledges....

 

[F9 Driver]

Actually its: We are losing a little on every seat, but we make (up) for it in volume.

Hey thats mine!

Actually... I changed it from how they told it in a little business school in Philly when my Dad went through. He thinks this whole thing is a riot too.

 

[T-Bags]

"I changed it from how they told it in a little business school in Philly when my Dad went through. He thinks this whole thing is a riot too."

I wonder how funny he will think it is when you have to move back into his basement.

 

[T-Bags]

From a Dow Jones newswire article...



"And a source familiar with Song said the airline's load factors are currently better than break even. Delta doesn't break out financial results for Song."

 

[F9 Driver]

Good one Bagger

I wonder how funny he will think it is when you have to move back into his basement.

When I do I'll stop by your Home Depot and have you give me some interior decorating tips.

 

[Ty Webb]

Actually booked load factors are reported to be around 90%. None of us will know for sure for some time, but the folks who actually have money at stake seem to be pleased...[/i]



You can't be serious . . . . This is the kick-off of UAL's make-or-break solution to LCC's. You can be sure that they have gone all-out to get those seats filled. You can't really derive any meaning from those numbers.

As someone else pointed out, it is kind of ridiculous to lavish all of these things on your most marginal customers, but so far, it is just typical "dinosaur airline" thinking:

1) Do something, anything! Look busy! Copy somebody!

2) Fly poeple at prices you can't make money at to "keep market share". . . . right up until the last day.

3) Make the employees give, give, give, while management
p!sses it all away on foolish decisions (see #1 and #2).

 

[T-Bags]

TY, do a fare check yourself www.flyted.com Come up with a sample itinerary. Then figure the RASM for that ticket and figure it for the CASM of the flight, even at the higher mainline rates. Feel free to use the lowest available fare. As for costs, a fresh coat of paint and a few more standard coach seats. The A320's already had video and audio. Then entire ad campaign only cost something like $300,000.

If FRNT wasn't VERY worried, I don't think they'd have had a "pep" rally. I bet it was as awkward as a Howard Dean campaign rally... "Uh yeah, we can win.... YEHAW!!"


It's comical to have heard all the slams that called all UAL initiatives as as scams and desperation only to see everybody else try to copy them. Just today, CAL announced "buy three fly free".

 

[crashpad]

I was watching the unveiling yesterday. It was sad. I think the pilots at UAL are mostly good guys. I wish them luck.

 

[JayDub]

Industry "baseline" wages.
If you fly an A320 as a captain, I don't care if it's year 2 or 22, you should make at least a minimum level of compensation. Same for F/O. If a company can't survive while paying that minimum, they should liquidate. That includes UAL. Pay must be considered as a WHOLE package. If company X wants more w2 cash and less tax free retirement funds, fine, but the total cost per flying hour for a pilot should be above a minimum at ALL airlines.

Ok, I am going to type slower so you don't miss it. What is the minimum level of compensation? Please provide a pay scale for the Airbus, and the aircraft you fly with what you feel is "adequate".

I think employees should be rewarded for loyalty. I heartily disagree with your idea of a CA making the same no matter if they are on property two years, or 22 years.

Respectfully,

JayDub

 

[Mugs]

It is guys like you over at UAL with your holier than thou attitude that will continue to foster contempt amongst your peers. Personally, after reading your posts and attitudes towards others I look forward to your forthcoming unemployment.

I'll agree with Boeingman on that one. T-Bags fits right in there with the NWA guys tossing Airtran pilots off the jumpseat. A minority (I hope) but the type that give the rest of us a bad name. I would venture to guess that T-Bags came directly from the military to UAL with no other civilian flying experience. Though there are many that have gone that same route, for some it seems to make them feel as though they simply took their rightful place in the commercial aviation world. Those that didn't wind up where they did are inferior in their minds. That attitude, as demonstrated by T-Bags here, is why many pilots would post exactly what Boeingman did above. Quite frankly, I can't blame them because I would say the same thing if I was on the other side of the fence. You say you have seen professional T-Bags. Well then, why haven't you learned anything from it? You do a good job of analyzing the statistics on this forum, why not take the high road and leave it at that? I can only hope that if I interview for another flying job someday that the ex-UAL label isn't a liability. Thanks to guys like you T-Bags, it could be.

 

[cornbread]

?

General Lee,

I am glad your opinion of me is high.

So, by your response, are you saying that starting a new airline (spend lotsa dough) is a smart thing when a company is bleeding cash?

I am no genius, but that sure ain't smart.

 

[B1900DFO]

I think T-bags is just extremely frustrated to see the erosion of our profession. I agree with the guy. It is sad to see companies like Dal and Ual replaced by outfits like Air Tran, Frt, JBL, etc.

I know a Ual pilot who recently retired and his final average earnings were over 280k. He now recieves 170k per year through his pension on top of a lump sum of nearly 2 million. His average month when he was still working had about 20 days off. Unfortunately I don't think that kind of career is available anymore. Now you have to go work your as# off at Jet Blue to make 150k and you better save your money because they sure as hell aren't going to give you a pension after 30 years of service. I don't blame the Jet Blue guys but I find it interesting that people seem to be cheering on the demise of the legacy carriers that offered absolutely amazing careers.

Other professions such as management, lawyers, salesmen, etc. see their compensation levels sing while ours are going down the drain. An air traffic controller starts at over 70k per year. Something to think about.

 

[IB6 UB9]

1900D,

I guess I will take suggestions on how to pursue my career. PM me, I will be waiting. I am furloughed UAL and although I am all in favor of working 10 days a month for 200K and a nice pension, etc., that type of lifestyle is no longer available to me. Are some of you saying that I should give it just a little longer, then start campaigning for ALPA or some similar entity to get over here and start getting me the pay and pension I deserve? Should I of said in my JB interview, "sounds like a nice little package you have here, but respectfully I must decline...you just don't pay what UAL was supposed to pay me so I will pass this to candidate B and hopefully be back to work over there soon getting the pay I deserve. BTW, how silly of you to pay these kind of wages." Hmmm. Nothing would delight me more than to work 45 hours a month, ten days a month and collect a guarantee paying me 6 figures. This might have been reality not too long ago, but unfortunately not currently. Now I have to work 85 hours to get paid 85 hours, and invest it so I can enjoy some of it. The alternative was not as pretty, pinching nerves in my lower back laying tile for cash while rushing off to the unemployment line to get my handout. The reality of the situation is that some of these other professions that you mentioned weren't hit as hard as ours, and to compare them is ludicrous. I suggest you change your way of thinking a little or you will be tooling around in your D model for quite some time, an aircraft I have over 4000 hrs in by the way.

 

[Boeingman]

"Boeingboy,
if you really did strike, then your "philosophy" is even more scummy. Kind of makes you a collaborater. Selling out your brothers and what you should know is right for a few more pieces of bread and some extra privledges....

Ah, the insinuations continue.....whatever. "Scummy"? Such a professional choice of words. My teenage daughter stopped those terms several years ago.

Selling out my brothers? LMAO. Now you're really grasping, but what you obviously lack is the maturity to see different angles of a very difficult situation. Especially a situation of which you're no part of but continue to spew arrogance upon others opinions.
Guys like you full of arrogance and ignorance within the union are just as dangerous as scabs. Different issues entirely but the destruction is still the same amongst the line pilots. I saw it in 83 and I see it again day in and day out in the industry.

If you want to talk about selling out, I could start listing, again, your (supposed) UAL's ALPA brethren selling out loyal ALPA memebers at FAL. But you choose to ignore it time and again. I wonder why that is?

Priviledge? To strike for over 2 years? God you really are an a$$hole. Time for you to get off your parents computer now.

 

[Boeingman]

I'll agree with Boeingman on that one. T-Bags fits right in there with the NWA guys tossing Airtran pilots off the jumpseat. A minority (I hope) but the type that give the rest of us a bad name. I would venture to guess that T-Bags came directly from the military to UAL with no other civilian flying experience. Though there are many that have gone that same route, for some it seems to make them feel as though they simply took their rightful place in the commercial aviation world. Those that didn't wind up where they did are inferior in their minds. That attitude, as demonstrated by T-Bags here, is why many pilots would post exactly what Boeingman did above. Quite frankly, I can't blame them because I would say the same thing if I was on the other side of the fence. You say you have seen professional T-Bags. Well then, why haven't you learned anything from it? You do a good job of analyzing the statistics on this forum, why not take the high road and leave it at that? I can only hope that if I interview for another flying job someday that the ex-UAL label isn't a liability. Thanks to guys like you T-Bags, it could be.

Mugs I know that had to hurt to write but I appreciate the comments. I also should add that I know deep down there are a lot of very good people at UAL and like you said, idiots like this ball boy cast a dark shadow amongst the entire group. I tend to let that shadow fall upon the whole airline at times and your PM reminded me of the fact there are others, like yourself, who do not fit the above catagory.

I think that you will prevail in whatever endevaour comes upon you.

P.S. The 4th Martini went down well. Salute!