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Ted gets star-ted at DEN, LAS
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Dizel8 said:"Bet your career has been the picture of good decisions and successes..."
Ah, the typical arrogant attitude, that is so often in the "Chosen Few". Just curious, is that what they teach during indoc?
Of course, you better be careful, Skirt might come teach you a thing or two!
Now now Dizel, your boy was bragging about his superb financial situation. Just merely remarked that after 2o some odd years, being a new hire didn't impress me. Doesn't say much for his track record either.
As to Skirt, she won't admit it, but I'll bet she is already having second thoughts. What's her strike price? I will say this, she alluded to the fact that she wasn't being hired as just another line pilot. If she is at JB to "give away" UAL's CLR program, something developed over the years at a considerable cost, then it strikes me as somewhat sleazy...
T-Bags said:Yeah yeah Boing Boy, tell us how everybody had medical bills and we just wouldn't understand....Blah blah blah....
Ball boy once again comes through with another brilliant attempt to deflect a well deserved chastizing.
I defend my pilot group for the good of us all at CAL. In fact, I'll hold all of our guys in better regard than a bunch of whining prima dona children like yourself, who for the most part were hired and jump started their careers due to their skin color or gender.One thing is for sure, your attitude personifies the UAL pilot right to the "T"
You mentioned in an earlier post the term scab can also label one who works for less than prevailing union wage rates. So are all UAL pilots now scabs after your concessions are below "prevailing ALPA wage rates"?
Like I said homo, you're the typical Brain Surgeon. Do keep posting though, you're a laugh a minute.
JayDub
Make it so.
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 254
T-Bags, I think where you are getting confused is you mistakenly thought our contract is one of "limited duration" like you find at a lot of foreign freight companies. Those say 'you'll work there for x amount of time then it ends, no matter what, but we may re-new... but it depends'. Ours, on the other hand, say you can only be fired for x,y,z, and it will be automatically renewed at five years, unless either party has reason not to. We are talking two completely different animals here.
Remember, we are paid time and a half for everything over 70 hours. Most of my friends make 135-145K a year. What's an Airbus Captain at United making these days? Remember, the guy in the left seat of the Bus at United has at least 15 years more with their company than I have with mine. It is easy to have the hourly rate throw you off, but compare 4 year scale with 4 year scale, and you'll find we are a lot farther from collecting public assistance than you'd have folks believe.
As I read your posts, the "baseline of compensation" thing jumps out at me. What exactly is that? I have yet to see anyone that thinks like this push any hard numbers. I truly believe this is because there is no "baseline". No matter how much you, I or anyone else makes, it will never be enough. That's cool, but at least be honest with yourself about it and move on.
To insinuate our book keeping is dishonest without any proof is disingenuous. The exact same hollow claims could be made of any other organization. Including, but not limited to, your airline, and even ALPA itself, if you choose.
20% returns are indeed unrealistic. All you have to have are returns that match the Dow from here on out to have a nice little nest egg. I believe that is what most of my peers are hoping for.
One last item; you might want to take it easy on JetBlue320. I have never, ever heard any one doubt his experience, character, skills, or patriotism that has met him. In fact, I would hold his qualifications that you seem to doubt against any one you choose.
Respectfully,
JayDub
P.S. Sorry the numbers didn’t add up. I never was any good at spelling.
Remember, we are paid time and a half for everything over 70 hours. Most of my friends make 135-145K a year. What's an Airbus Captain at United making these days? Remember, the guy in the left seat of the Bus at United has at least 15 years more with their company than I have with mine. It is easy to have the hourly rate throw you off, but compare 4 year scale with 4 year scale, and you'll find we are a lot farther from collecting public assistance than you'd have folks believe.
As I read your posts, the "baseline of compensation" thing jumps out at me. What exactly is that? I have yet to see anyone that thinks like this push any hard numbers. I truly believe this is because there is no "baseline". No matter how much you, I or anyone else makes, it will never be enough. That's cool, but at least be honest with yourself about it and move on.
To insinuate our book keeping is dishonest without any proof is disingenuous. The exact same hollow claims could be made of any other organization. Including, but not limited to, your airline, and even ALPA itself, if you choose.
20% returns are indeed unrealistic. All you have to have are returns that match the Dow from here on out to have a nice little nest egg. I believe that is what most of my peers are hoping for.
One last item; you might want to take it easy on JetBlue320. I have never, ever heard any one doubt his experience, character, skills, or patriotism that has met him. In fact, I would hold his qualifications that you seem to doubt against any one you choose.
Respectfully,
JayDub
P.S. Sorry the numbers didn’t add up. I never was any good at spelling.
Jdub,
WRT the "contract", I was wondering if that gave the comapny an "out" when the concept of post retirement benefits were considered. If you are a "contract" employee, it would follow that when that contract ends, their "responsibility" ends. I am honestly asking the question.
Books: I have backed up my ascertion REPEATEDLY (I know that puts me in the minority...).
MX costs: JBLU has SIGNIFICANTLY lower MX costs currently because they don't account for MX that is performed under warrantee. Sounds good, but IMHO, a more honest accounting would either use traditional A320 lifetime MX cost schedule and "debit" the books for that amount with the in warrantee "savings" being reflected in cash flow, or assign a value to that warrantee (Airbus does...) and have that value amortized for the duration of the warrantee (what I've been told is the most appropriate)
Depreciation: 25 year straightline with a 20% residual?! Come on!!! Does anybody fly 20 YO buses? I think AF has been dumping their oldies on the cheap. And when you figure in the composites, there isn't even enough aluminum to make a 12 pack!!!
Lease expenses: Hard to get a firm grasp on them. Most of the leases are are of a short term nature, with the rumors of "teaser rates". I don't know, but it is propriotary infor so it will never be released to anybody, but assuming they are at "normal" rates, the interest rate used in the lease payment equation is a variable rate. While this isn't "dishonest", it does mean significantly higher lease rates if interest rates start to climb
FWIW, I'm a purist WRT my thinking on accounting. For example, I think money saved by fuel hedging should be considered "investment income". Management is gambling on a speculative market, and they aren't even doing it with jet fuel in most cases. They buy futures on other petroleum futures and "trade" them for Jet fuel. You could hedge fuel with bananas if someone could give you an exchange rate. Operating results should report how a company is performing WRT to it's peers with speculative "investments" removed from the picture.
WRT the "contract", I was wondering if that gave the comapny an "out" when the concept of post retirement benefits were considered. If you are a "contract" employee, it would follow that when that contract ends, their "responsibility" ends. I am honestly asking the question.
Books: I have backed up my ascertion REPEATEDLY (I know that puts me in the minority...).
MX costs: JBLU has SIGNIFICANTLY lower MX costs currently because they don't account for MX that is performed under warrantee. Sounds good, but IMHO, a more honest accounting would either use traditional A320 lifetime MX cost schedule and "debit" the books for that amount with the in warrantee "savings" being reflected in cash flow, or assign a value to that warrantee (Airbus does...) and have that value amortized for the duration of the warrantee (what I've been told is the most appropriate)
Depreciation: 25 year straightline with a 20% residual?! Come on!!! Does anybody fly 20 YO buses? I think AF has been dumping their oldies on the cheap. And when you figure in the composites, there isn't even enough aluminum to make a 12 pack!!!
Lease expenses: Hard to get a firm grasp on them. Most of the leases are are of a short term nature, with the rumors of "teaser rates". I don't know, but it is propriotary infor so it will never be released to anybody, but assuming they are at "normal" rates, the interest rate used in the lease payment equation is a variable rate. While this isn't "dishonest", it does mean significantly higher lease rates if interest rates start to climb
FWIW, I'm a purist WRT my thinking on accounting. For example, I think money saved by fuel hedging should be considered "investment income". Management is gambling on a speculative market, and they aren't even doing it with jet fuel in most cases. They buy futures on other petroleum futures and "trade" them for Jet fuel. You could hedge fuel with bananas if someone could give you an exchange rate. Operating results should report how a company is performing WRT to it's peers with speculative "investments" removed from the picture.
Ty Webb
Hostage to Fortune
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2001
- Posts
- 6,524
T-Bags . . . the "dino-sore" . . . . .
Face it, Bags, the problem isn't LCC pilots. I could just as easily make the case that your dinosaur airline keeps MY wages down.
How, you ask?
Simple. If your company actually charged passengers what it cost them to operate the flights, plus a reasonable profit, then MY employer could raise our prices, make even more money, and we, the pilots, would be right there looking for our fair share of the profits.
Instead, your compnay has lost billions of dollars by dumping seats at huge losses . . . and will probably keep doing so right into Chapter 7.
Meanwhile, you, with all the friends you've made on this board, should have no problem finding yourself a job at a surviving "non-dinasaur" airline.
Good luck.
Face it, Bags, the problem isn't LCC pilots. I could just as easily make the case that your dinosaur airline keeps MY wages down.
How, you ask?
Simple. If your company actually charged passengers what it cost them to operate the flights, plus a reasonable profit, then MY employer could raise our prices, make even more money, and we, the pilots, would be right there looking for our fair share of the profits.
Instead, your compnay has lost billions of dollars by dumping seats at huge losses . . . and will probably keep doing so right into Chapter 7.
Meanwhile, you, with all the friends you've made on this board, should have no problem finding yourself a job at a surviving "non-dinasaur" airline.
Good luck.
Jdub,
I split the subjects so one post wouldn't take two pages.
Industry "baseline" wages.
If you fly an A320 as a captain, I don't care if it's year 2 or 22, you should make at least a minimum level of compensation. Same for F/O. If a company can't survive while paying that minimum, they should liquidate. That includes UAL. We as pilots also need to become more rational with F/O rates to make it a little less "painful" if your company liquidates. Again, what is a former rEAL capt proving when he is on "probation". Why should a first year F/O make 1/3 the pay of a 3rd year guy for doing the same job. To Jblu's credit, they don't appear to play this game to the extent of the majors. If Jblu or anybody else has some magic elixer of a business plan that results in phenominal growth, fine, then the top quality guys will go there. But the growth should NEVER come as a tradeoff for pay. This starts the snowball (or more appropriately, the avalanche...) "If only you guys will take Virgin Americas pay, we can grow...." and they cycle continues.
Pay must be considered as a WHOLE package. If company X wants more w2 cash and less tax free retirement funds, fine, but the total cost per flying hour for a pilot should be above a minimum at ALL airlines.
Boeing boy,
FYI, UAL's new pilot contract used CAL's as a template. Per hour pilot costs are roughly the same now. UAL's "old" contract would have resulted in over 1000 more pilots at CAL, but your scab infested LEC's gave Gordo just what he wanted. Hope you like you contract, you'll get to keep it for at least five more years. Congrats on matching UAL's contract..... As to your professionals, I've sat back and listened to your "company men" make @sses of themselves on 123.45 taunting about the jets and routes Gordo was going to take at liquidation. I've seen professional, and it ain't at CAL...
BTW, I'm a mayonaise monkey with balls. WRT to quality individuals hired at UAL, most had better qualifications than I and a majority came from other Airlines (like CAL).
I split the subjects so one post wouldn't take two pages.
Industry "baseline" wages.
If you fly an A320 as a captain, I don't care if it's year 2 or 22, you should make at least a minimum level of compensation. Same for F/O. If a company can't survive while paying that minimum, they should liquidate. That includes UAL. We as pilots also need to become more rational with F/O rates to make it a little less "painful" if your company liquidates. Again, what is a former rEAL capt proving when he is on "probation". Why should a first year F/O make 1/3 the pay of a 3rd year guy for doing the same job. To Jblu's credit, they don't appear to play this game to the extent of the majors. If Jblu or anybody else has some magic elixer of a business plan that results in phenominal growth, fine, then the top quality guys will go there. But the growth should NEVER come as a tradeoff for pay. This starts the snowball (or more appropriately, the avalanche...) "If only you guys will take Virgin Americas pay, we can grow...." and they cycle continues.
Pay must be considered as a WHOLE package. If company X wants more w2 cash and less tax free retirement funds, fine, but the total cost per flying hour for a pilot should be above a minimum at ALL airlines.
Boeing boy,
FYI, UAL's new pilot contract used CAL's as a template. Per hour pilot costs are roughly the same now. UAL's "old" contract would have resulted in over 1000 more pilots at CAL, but your scab infested LEC's gave Gordo just what he wanted. Hope you like you contract, you'll get to keep it for at least five more years. Congrats on matching UAL's contract..... As to your professionals, I've sat back and listened to your "company men" make @sses of themselves on 123.45 taunting about the jets and routes Gordo was going to take at liquidation. I've seen professional, and it ain't at CAL...
BTW, I'm a mayonaise monkey with balls. WRT to quality individuals hired at UAL, most had better qualifications than I and a majority came from other Airlines (like CAL).
T-Bags said:
Yawn, Whatever. So the 1,000 you dumped are just the beggining? LOL, more to follow stay tuned. And the LEC's don't give the CEO the contract. The pilots vote on it. As far as my wages, well sonny, I'm not worried financially. I only care about my fellow pilots well being. Actually, during C-97 no scabs were on the LEC's. You shouldn't keep whining about your scab mantra without true facts.
5 more years? UAL be be lucky to be even around in 5 years.
Professionals? Like what you a$$wipes did to our Frontier ALPA brothers? Talk about taunting regarding a liquidation right Brain Surgeon? How about the taunting UAL did to CAL during your "professional" TORQUE program in DEN. Remember Brain Surgeon, you and yours attacks were directed by many over there towards full term strikers like myself.
I'd be willing to bet that many of the "taunts" you (supposedly)heard were from ex FAL pilots who are just salvitating over the demise of UAL. All I ever fly is international and I have never heard peep out of any CAL pilots on freq. During the USAIR/UAL pending merger, I sure did hear a lot of Brain Surgeons brow beating the U pilots on freq. with the same type of boistrous arrogance you display here. Sounds like you got the call signs mixed up.
The real reason you run your mouth is you're just plain scared. If I saw my management hinging our survival on a joke like TED, I'd be worried as well.
Mayonaise monkey with balls? Another glimps at the UAL professonalism? LOL I'd ask how you slipped through the process, but then again with all that career jumpstarting going over there..........................
It is guys like you over at UAL with your holier than thou attitude that will continue to foster contempt amongst your peers. Personally, after reading your posts and attitudes towards others I look forward to your forthcoming unemployment.
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Ty, Faulty logic. First, for capacity to be considered dumping, it must be done at a cost below the maginal cost of producing those flights. Bout the only example I can think of is SWA in PHL. Your companies would not add higher fares and thus be able to pay more, they would add capacity. Thats exactly what FRNT did in DEN. UAL cut back capacity while FRNT added at around 20%, then their CEO had the audacity to complain of too much capacity...
The best thing for the Airline industry employees would be for the government to quit meddling and for the industry to mature to the level of other industries.
Consider Dallas Love. I think the government should repeal the Wright admendment, but in a controlled manner like they are doing Reagan. The should start giving out "beyond perimeter" slots, but in the name of "fairness" they should essentially exclude the largest local carrier from the deal. Give all those slots to "no-incumbants". Think it would fly? Yet that type of garbage is perpetuated against the bigs. Why was U-UAL stopped? Because it would make the company too strong since it would be more convenient for the pax. Ole' Herb literally used the notion that since it would be a benefit for the pax, the little guys wouldn't be able to compete.
.
Hub and spoke carriers produce more revenue. LCC's will NEVER be able to pay the same LONG TERM as the incumbants, unless they themselves BECOME NETWORK CARRIERS. Quite honestly, 3 US carriers, all with relatively equivilent wage structures (high ;o) ), would benefit employees of the industry in the long term. It would produce higher wages, more stabile work enviroments, and more pilot jobs.
The best thing for the Airline industry employees would be for the government to quit meddling and for the industry to mature to the level of other industries.
Consider Dallas Love. I think the government should repeal the Wright admendment, but in a controlled manner like they are doing Reagan. The should start giving out "beyond perimeter" slots, but in the name of "fairness" they should essentially exclude the largest local carrier from the deal. Give all those slots to "no-incumbants". Think it would fly? Yet that type of garbage is perpetuated against the bigs. Why was U-UAL stopped? Because it would make the company too strong since it would be more convenient for the pax. Ole' Herb literally used the notion that since it would be a benefit for the pax, the little guys wouldn't be able to compete.
. Hub and spoke carriers produce more revenue. LCC's will NEVER be able to pay the same LONG TERM as the incumbants, unless they themselves BECOME NETWORK CARRIERS. Quite honestly, 3 US carriers, all with relatively equivilent wage structures (high ;o) ), would benefit employees of the industry in the long term. It would produce higher wages, more stabile work enviroments, and more pilot jobs.
Ted's Song
(Johnny Cash singing)
I'm going down, down, down, in a burning ring of fire..."
In what universe, or dimension, is it fiscally viable to launch multi-million dollar venture when you are bleeding cash? Apparently in the UAL and DAL HQ buildings. Truely unbelievable.
I sincerely include the employees of United in my prayers. It seems as though the corporate leadership is set on effecting the company's demise.
If UAL and DAL pilots made decisions at work as insane as those of their corporate leaders , their airlines would only exist after a flight or two.
Can you imagine:
"Captain, we only have enough fuel to get us halfway over the Atlantic!" "That's true, but we have a lot of potable water."
"Captain, you are two and half dots high on the glides slope!"
"Yeah, but we are fast."
(Johnny Cash singing)
I'm going down, down, down, in a burning ring of fire..."
In what universe, or dimension, is it fiscally viable to launch multi-million dollar venture when you are bleeding cash? Apparently in the UAL and DAL HQ buildings. Truely unbelievable.
I sincerely include the employees of United in my prayers. It seems as though the corporate leadership is set on effecting the company's demise.
If UAL and DAL pilots made decisions at work as insane as those of their corporate leaders , their airlines would only exist after a flight or two.
Can you imagine:
"Captain, we only have enough fuel to get us halfway over the Atlantic!" "That's true, but we have a lot of potable water."
"Captain, you are two and half dots high on the glides slope!"
"Yeah, but we are fast."
T-Bags said:hmm, boeingboy is very senior and has first hand knowledge of the FAL days.... hmmm. hope my comment didn't hit to close to home...
Sorry to dissappoint you ball boy, but I'm a full term CAL striker.
25 months on a picket line give me the right to form my own opinions about our pilots and what is best for us.
I'm starting to think you're not even a pilot. Most of us use the term "common" for 23.45 and anybody with an ounce of intelligence regarding airline unions and contracts know that the contract process is not signed or "given" by an LEC.
What hits close to home is my family was directly affected by the actions of arrogant pricks over at UAL/ALPA during the FAL/UAL issue. So tell us...where does the term Brain Surgeon come from?
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
cornbread,
You sound like a genius. First of all, Song was made to combat Jetblue, and it has---it is a buffer and has done well for being less than one year old---regardless of what one analyst says who supposedly has the numbers that nobody else can find. The flights have been full--and if we can't make money on that--then it is a marketing problem or a revenue problem--all above my pay scale. TED's plan is different than Songs---because they go into their own hubs and canibalize their own routes that used to be mainline. Song doesn't do that--they take the low fare people and fly them nonstop to FLA---while allowing our hub seats to go at a premium for RJ passengers in ATL and CVG. As to why we are "bleeding?" Well---our managment likes to park MD-11s in the desert while we still have to pay for them, and they like to purchase new uniforms for our stews, and they won't accept partial pay cuts from us that would save them nearly $400 million a year NOW.....But you already knew that.......
Bye Bye--General Lee
You sound like a genius. First of all, Song was made to combat Jetblue, and it has---it is a buffer and has done well for being less than one year old---regardless of what one analyst says who supposedly has the numbers that nobody else can find. The flights have been full--and if we can't make money on that--then it is a marketing problem or a revenue problem--all above my pay scale. TED's plan is different than Songs---because they go into their own hubs and canibalize their own routes that used to be mainline. Song doesn't do that--they take the low fare people and fly them nonstop to FLA---while allowing our hub seats to go at a premium for RJ passengers in ATL and CVG. As to why we are "bleeding?" Well---our managment likes to park MD-11s in the desert while we still have to pay for them, and they like to purchase new uniforms for our stews, and they won't accept partial pay cuts from us that would save them nearly $400 million a year NOW.....But you already knew that.......
Bye Bye--General Lee
"Actually its: We are losing a little on every seat, but we make it for it in volume."
Actually booked load factors are reported to be around 90%. None of us will know for sure for some time, but the folks who actually have money at stake seem to be pleased...
Boeingboy,
if you really did strike, then your "philosophy" is even more scummy. Kind of makes you a collaborater. Selling out your brothers and what you should know is right for a few more pieces of bread and some extra privledges....
Actually booked load factors are reported to be around 90%. None of us will know for sure for some time, but the folks who actually have money at stake seem to be pleased...
Boeingboy,
if you really did strike, then your "philosophy" is even more scummy. Kind of makes you a collaborater. Selling out your brothers and what you should know is right for a few more pieces of bread and some extra privledges....
TY, do a fare check yourself www.flyted.com Come up with a sample itinerary. Then figure the RASM for that ticket and figure it for the CASM of the flight, even at the higher mainline rates. Feel free to use the lowest available fare. As for costs, a fresh coat of paint and a few more standard coach seats. The A320's already had video and audio. Then entire ad campaign only cost something like $300,000.
If FRNT wasn't VERY worried, I don't think they'd have had a "pep" rally. I bet it was as awkward as a Howard Dean campaign rally... "Uh yeah, we can win.... YEHAW!!"
It's comical to have heard all the slams that called all UAL initiatives as as scams and desperation only to see everybody else try to copy them. Just today, CAL announced "buy three fly free".
If FRNT wasn't VERY worried, I don't think they'd have had a "pep" rally. I bet it was as awkward as a Howard Dean campaign rally... "Uh yeah, we can win.... YEHAW!!"
It's comical to have heard all the slams that called all UAL initiatives as as scams and desperation only to see everybody else try to copy them. Just today, CAL announced "buy three fly free".
JayDub
Make it so.
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 254
T-Bags said:
Ok, I am going to type slower so you don't miss it. What is the minimum level of compensation? Please provide a pay scale for the Airbus, and the aircraft you fly with what you feel is "adequate".
I think employees should be rewarded for loyalty. I heartily disagree with your idea of a CA making the same no matter if they are on property two years, or 22 years.
Respectfully,
JayDub
Boeingman said:
I'll agree with Boeingman on that one. T-Bags fits right in there with the NWA guys tossing Airtran pilots off the jumpseat. A minority (I hope) but the type that give the rest of us a bad name. I would venture to guess that T-Bags came directly from the military to UAL with no other civilian flying experience. Though there are many that have gone that same route, for some it seems to make them feel as though they simply took their rightful place in the commercial aviation world. Those that didn't wind up where they did are inferior in their minds. That attitude, as demonstrated by T-Bags here, is why many pilots would post exactly what Boeingman did above. Quite frankly, I can't blame them because I would say the same thing if I was on the other side of the fence. You say you have seen professional T-Bags. Well then, why haven't you learned anything from it? You do a good job of analyzing the statistics on this forum, why not take the high road and leave it at that? I can only hope that if I interview for another flying job someday that the ex-UAL label isn't a liability. Thanks to guys like you T-Bags, it could be.
I think T-bags is just extremely frustrated to see the erosion of our profession. I agree with the guy. It is sad to see companies like Dal and Ual replaced by outfits like Air Tran, Frt, JBL, etc.
I know a Ual pilot who recently retired and his final average earnings were over 280k. He now recieves 170k per year through his pension on top of a lump sum of nearly 2 million. His average month when he was still working had about 20 days off. Unfortunately I don't think that kind of career is available anymore. Now you have to go work your as# off at Jet Blue to make 150k and you better save your money because they sure as hell aren't going to give you a pension after 30 years of service. I don't blame the Jet Blue guys but I find it interesting that people seem to be cheering on the demise of the legacy carriers that offered absolutely amazing careers.
Other professions such as management, lawyers, salesmen, etc. see their compensation levels sing while ours are going down the drain. An air traffic controller starts at over 70k per year. Something to think about.
I know a Ual pilot who recently retired and his final average earnings were over 280k. He now recieves 170k per year through his pension on top of a lump sum of nearly 2 million. His average month when he was still working had about 20 days off. Unfortunately I don't think that kind of career is available anymore. Now you have to go work your as# off at Jet Blue to make 150k and you better save your money because they sure as hell aren't going to give you a pension after 30 years of service. I don't blame the Jet Blue guys but I find it interesting that people seem to be cheering on the demise of the legacy carriers that offered absolutely amazing careers.
Other professions such as management, lawyers, salesmen, etc. see their compensation levels sing while ours are going down the drain. An air traffic controller starts at over 70k per year. Something to think about.
1900D,
I guess I will take suggestions on how to pursue my career. PM me, I will be waiting. I am furloughed UAL and although I am all in favor of working 10 days a month for 200K and a nice pension, etc., that type of lifestyle is no longer available to me. Are some of you saying that I should give it just a little longer, then start campaigning for ALPA or some similar entity to get over here and start getting me the pay and pension I deserve? Should I of said in my JB interview, "sounds like a nice little package you have here, but respectfully I must decline...you just don't pay what UAL was supposed to pay me so I will pass this to candidate B and hopefully be back to work over there soon getting the pay I deserve. BTW, how silly of you to pay these kind of wages." Hmmm. Nothing would delight me more than to work 45 hours a month, ten days a month and collect a guarantee paying me 6 figures. This might have been reality not too long ago, but unfortunately not currently. Now I have to work 85 hours to get paid 85 hours, and invest it so I can enjoy some of it. The alternative was not as pretty, pinching nerves in my lower back laying tile for cash while rushing off to the unemployment line to get my handout. The reality of the situation is that some of these other professions that you mentioned weren't hit as hard as ours, and to compare them is ludicrous. I suggest you change your way of thinking a little or you will be tooling around in your D model for quite some time, an aircraft I have over 4000 hrs in by the way.
I guess I will take suggestions on how to pursue my career. PM me, I will be waiting. I am furloughed UAL and although I am all in favor of working 10 days a month for 200K and a nice pension, etc., that type of lifestyle is no longer available to me. Are some of you saying that I should give it just a little longer, then start campaigning for ALPA or some similar entity to get over here and start getting me the pay and pension I deserve? Should I of said in my JB interview, "sounds like a nice little package you have here, but respectfully I must decline...you just don't pay what UAL was supposed to pay me so I will pass this to candidate B and hopefully be back to work over there soon getting the pay I deserve. BTW, how silly of you to pay these kind of wages." Hmmm. Nothing would delight me more than to work 45 hours a month, ten days a month and collect a guarantee paying me 6 figures. This might have been reality not too long ago, but unfortunately not currently. Now I have to work 85 hours to get paid 85 hours, and invest it so I can enjoy some of it. The alternative was not as pretty, pinching nerves in my lower back laying tile for cash while rushing off to the unemployment line to get my handout. The reality of the situation is that some of these other professions that you mentioned weren't hit as hard as ours, and to compare them is ludicrous. I suggest you change your way of thinking a little or you will be tooling around in your D model for quite some time, an aircraft I have over 4000 hrs in by the way.
T-Bags said:
Ah, the insinuations continue.....whatever. "Scummy"? Such a professional choice of words. My teenage daughter stopped those terms several years ago.
Selling out my brothers? LMAO. Now you're really grasping, but what you obviously lack is the maturity to see different angles of a very difficult situation. Especially a situation of which you're no part of but continue to spew arrogance upon others opinions.
Guys like you full of arrogance and ignorance within the union are just as dangerous as scabs. Different issues entirely but the destruction is still the same amongst the line pilots. I saw it in 83 and I see it again day in and day out in the industry.
If you want to talk about selling out, I could start listing, again, your (supposed) UAL's ALPA brethren selling out loyal ALPA memebers at FAL. But you choose to ignore it time and again. I wonder why that is?
Priviledge? To strike for over 2 years? God you really are an a$$hole. Time for you to get off your parents computer now.
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Mugs said:
Mugs I know that had to hurt to write but I appreciate the comments. I also should add that I know deep down there are a lot of very good people at UAL and like you said, idiots like this ball boy cast a dark shadow amongst the entire group. I tend to let that shadow fall upon the whole airline at times and your PM reminded me of the fact there are others, like yourself, who do not fit the above catagory.
I think that you will prevail in whatever endevaour comes upon you.
P.S. The 4th Martini went down well. Salute!
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