Teaching landings

[Cat Driver]

O.K. how about this senario.

I am making a steep approach over high trees in an Ag-plane and I want to start my spray run as close as possible in my run down the field...if I look a mile ahead ( 5000 foot runway ) while I am in my steep approach to judge when to level off will peripherial vision be sufficient to accurately judge height?

 

[52Vincent]

I like to teach the landing sequence in the same 3 phase technique that was mentioned by BoDean, APPROACH, ROUNDOUT, FLARE. This helps breakdown the landing sequence so that the student is'nt trying to do everything at once. Depending on the student it may benefit you to teach each area in a seperate lesson. Then, they can put it all together after they have mastered each area.

I like the idea of challenging the student to keep the plane off the gound as long as possible while reducing power, requiring them to place the airplane in the flaring configuration. I may try this with the next student who is having difficulties. Thx jared44.

However; something that has not been mentioned yet which may help you flyf15 is the overcontrolling issue which should be overcome by trimming the plane properly on the approach. I have noticed this not to be the case. Tell your students to fly the plane with their fingers or fingertips once trimmed not the palm of their hands. I have noticed even if the plane is trimmed the student still feels more comfortable with the Death Grip. Relieving the death grip will help the student make stabilized approaches leading to nicer landings. The next time your student has a questionable approach ask them to look at the palm of their hands, more times than not it is beet red (bring on the jokes). This has helped me tremendously.

My .02 cents worth, hope it helps.

 

[flyf15]

Hey guys, just thought I'd give you an update.

Had two lessons with the student who was being "shy" on the controls this weekend. Took a lot of the ideas in this thread and had a good ground session with him as to what exactly is going on when you land. After that, went up in the air and did power off stalls and discussed how the idea is the same as during the flare. Came back and did some touch and goes, 5 of his 6 landings were quite good (up from say, 1 out of every 5 before). Afterwards we debriefed and he remarked that he feels he really understands everything now...I must say, I am one happy instructor.

Thanks guys!

 

[Lead Sled]

O.K. how about this senario. I am making a steep approach over high trees in an Ag-plane and I want to start my spray run as close as possible in my run down the field...if I look a mile ahead ( 5000 foot runway ) while I am in my steep approach to judge when to level off will peripherial vision be sufficient to accurately judge height?

Hey, I've been doing this for nearly 40 years (I'm not all that old, but I managed to get my PPL in high school.) and I only know of two ways to do it (in addition to the "glassy water" technique"). The first method involves a radio altimeter. The second method involves your copilot and waiting for them to either gasp or scream.

I don't think that you can have the necessary depth perception with your gaze fixed on a distant point. But, I've been at this too long to know better than think that I know all there is to know about flying airplanes. So what's the answer?
Lead Sled

 

[Cat Driver]

Lead Sled :

Basically there are two aim points during a landing ( This is my method of teaching the subject of landing ) the first task is to determine when to change attitude from the approach attitude to the level attitude at about fifteen feet above the runway.

To best judge closure rate and height in this stage of the approach your aim point must be the point at which you plan on flaring to the level attitude.

Then as the flare is started you shift your center of sight ahead up the runway about four to five hundred feet ( the point on the runway where apparent movement ceases )

This method gives one the most accurate method to judge closure rate and height, making for far more controlled and accurate landings.

Far to many instructors teach the student to look at the far end of the runway before they begin the process of changing attitude from the approach attitude to the level attitude and then keep looking at the far end to complete the touch down...which makes for sloppy landings.

Cat Driver

 

[Lead Sled]

Cat...
I agree with that. I guess that I misunderstood what you were asking. Back when I was working with primary students, I did basically the same thing. As far as where they should be looking, I basically just told them to look about where they would be looking if they were driving a car at that same speed. In 1700 hours of dual given I never had much of a problem with it.
Lead Sled