tdturbo strikes again

[avbug]

it is an ATC seminar open to pilots on safety issues that are not addressed in recurrent training in 121 ops. This is the first of it's kind to be open to pilots,

I see. Not addressed in 121 operations. Gotcha. And you would know this, how?

ATC has had safety related information for years, and it's been withheld from the pilots. Fortunate that you're going. Keep us complacent untrained professionals informed, will you?

You may be our last hope.

 

[TDTURBO]

Phil,

I defy you finding a post of mine on ipilot that is contrary to safety and sound advice. I state fact, you decide if what avbug says is sound advice. Try reading my posts before running your mouth.

Here is a partial list of avbugs positions on safety and ownership issues.

Exhibit one:

Declaring emergencies......

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=8402&highlight=clownpilot


Exhibit #2

Justifying landing on the opposite runway while another plane is taking off with a full pattern using proper radio calls and entry patterns...... no brainer here.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=52414&highlight=avbug

Exhibit#3

Informing a potential owner that a plane without current logs is nothing but a pile of junk.....

http://ipilot.com/forum/message.aspx?pid=91922#91922

Exhibit#4 .........http://ipilot.com/forum/message.aspx?pid=102441#102441

Stating that an engine monitor is a waste of money for a guy with a rough running engine, lets put our blind faith in an A&P we don't know, he seems to think so. He states he finds little to no use of them in GA aircraft. That's why all new aircraft have them and 80% of all owner aircraft have them. I consider this a safety issue too.

Exhibit#5

Bragging that he had a dozen or more engine failures. Everybody knows of this, he keeps it well known, I think it will be easy to find on your own.

If you need a crayon, I can't help you, this may give you a start.

Please refrain from uninformed comments until you know the history, you have only been a member for a year with 12 posts, not what I would call an asset to the forum. If all you can do is criticize, then find another venue.

Avbug is a knowledgeable man, but he will never admit when he is wrong, he is flawed and potentially dangerous. I will continue correcting his occasional mis-information and praise him for his insight.

You have a perfect right to disagree, just do it with facts and not emotion.


This forum is all about learning, not bashing because you perceive a question is stupid. Which BTW, there is no such thing as a stupid question, especially in aviation.

If you have a problem with a post, then by all means pipe up, unless you can’t take the heat, hence the 12 posts in a year.

Until then, go back to lurking and learning.

But above all, fly safe!

 

[TDTURBO]

I know this from IFR magazine, they will be discussing changes in ATC that will effect all pilots, this info hasn't flitered down to 121 ops yet because it still is being debated, hence the meeting to exchange info between pilots and controllers. Do you have a problem with that too?

I see. Not addressed in 121 operations. Gotcha. And you would know this, how?

ATC has had safety related information for years, and it's been withheld from the pilots. Fortunate that you're going. Keep us complacent untrained professionals informed, will you?

How could I? You are Avgod, you cannot learn anything because you know everything.

You may be our last hope.

So what you are saying is that you were wrong in accusing me of attending a seminar including icing? That would be a first.

A good step.

Unfortunately your tone about continuing education leaves me to believe you are against it, correct me if I am wrong. It sure sounds that way. Is going to this seminar a bad idea avbug, in your infinate wisdom should I get a refund, I am curious as to how to proceed.

 

[phil]

tdturbo jr,
deflecting the focus away from what you said about flying into icing conditions by pointing your finger at Avbug is not going to wash here, what you said was deplorable, in fact, it seems that the other responders on the ipilot web site told you off pretty good too, and even said Avbug was right concerning the Ag plane flying!

Looks like no one wants to hear your sorry arse whining about big bad avbug hurting your feelings, go somewhere else to cry, were full up on babysisting here. No one here is buying your act either.

 

[avbug]

TD,

Attempting to converse with you is a little like jabbing a pig in a pen with a pitchfork...but what the heck? It's cheap entertainment, and like a pet insect in a box, eventually you'll either run out of steam and die (more likely than not from the descriptions you give of your flying), or will quietley shut up and give up. One can only hope (that you'll give up, before you hurt yourself, that is).

I'm up late watching over my boy after getting him back from the emergency room tonight. What's your excuse, this fine morn?

Yes, an airplane without logs is basically a worthless pile of junk. It can certainly be made airworthy with enough time and effort and money...but it's not a good bet. Certainly not for a purchase. Is it worth something? You betcha. So are beer cans that one retrieves from under the bleachers at the rodeo grounds. So what?

I stand behind every comment I have ever made regarding the declaration of an emergency. You might as well get off that high horse right now.

You feel that having had real world experience involving emergencies and handling them is something over which I should be embarassed? Tough sell, there, mate. I'm grateful for the experience...it goes toward helping me stay alive the next time around. Merely because you lack the experience doesn't mean you need apologize. Again, nice try. Next?

I never justified landing the opposite direction, though I did state that there are perfectly good reasons for doing so...not the same as justification. I've watched daisy chains of lemming private pilots follow one another to a particular runway because one of them kept calling it the "active." I've elected to use a different runway, perhaps not wanting the ten knots on the tail that they were accepting, perhaps for some other reason...and soon watched them all change to follow. Nothing wrong with that at all. I've also landed ahead of other traffic coming the other way, and never lost sleep over it. I can't recall anybody ever having heartburn when I did it, either.

Then again, I do talk on the radio, but I look for other traffic as though there is no radio, and I fly my airplane the same way. It's the only sensible thing to do, and I have never at any time advocated anything else. Some of my work puts me in a different category of regulation than you, and I correctly stated so...it also means I operate differently. Don't like it? Tough cookies.

Stating that an engine monitor is a waste of money for a guy with a rough running engine, lets put our blind faith in an A&P we don't know, he seems to think so. He states he finds little to no use of them in GA aircraft. That's why all new aircraft have them and 80% of all owner aircraft have them. I consider this a safety issue too.

Now, now, lies don't become us, do they? Blind faith in an aircraft mechanic? No...I suggested that a young inexperienced pilot who complained of a rough engine should seek professional assistance in diagnosing and fixing the problem before flying the airplane again...the correct and sensible counsel to give. You suggested that he should get an engine monitor installed, instead. I told him not to fly the airplane until he had a soloution to the problem; right true conservative appropriate counsel to give. You prattled on about downloading engine parameters and heat sensitive paint on spark plugs.

My comment on a cold cylinder? A hand on the cylinder or a squirter bottle of water, works wonders. And it won't cost him more than a year's salary, either. A squirter bottle with water is still a valueable tool in my box for analyzing an engine for a cold or cool cylinder...and it's quick, cheap, and doesn't require a starving young airplane owner to go spend a king's ransome to have a JPI or GEM installed. Go figure, simple, foolproof, and easy, not to mention economical. Shame on me for even bringing it up. But then as you've said before, and recently in that same thread...I'm just an A&P out to bilk the masses out of their money because I dont' know "sh!t" about their airplanes. Again, go figure.

Eighty percent of general aviation piston aircraft have multi cylinder monitoring systems and multi probe EGT systems? Really? I guess I just see a lot of the twenty percent that don't, then. You've opened my eyes to a big bright beautiful world out there, mate. Thanks a million.

 

[:-)]

TDTurbo,

Calvin spends a lot of time in the world of fantasy, apparently so do you. We should get along famously.

Being a CFII (MEI, etc) for years, I'd like to suggest that the next time you feel the need to experiment, why not just rent an airplane certified for known icing and hire an experienced CFII to go along. Take the time, and spend the money, to acquire the knowledge in a safe well planned manner. Drats, Now, I'm starting to get out of character. Mussent do dat. Calvin must remain in character at all times to prevent inadvertant identity disclosure.

Oh, I'd rather be in the middle of a water bomb run with avbug, than in your Cessna in the ice.

 

[Ill Mitch]

Yes, it probably was stupid, but I assure you, I was in no danger. Very warm air below and a very thin layer with light rime. I am the kind of person that learns by doing, if I ever get into ice on accident again, I will know what to expect. I like to know everything my plane can do, reading a book or practicing on a sim isn't the same. At the time it felt like a perfect opportunity to see icing develop since my assigned IFR altitude was perfect.

BTW: There was a CFII with 10,000 hrs in the right seat, it was his idea, I was all for it.

I read this and cringe. How many us have taken off with a high ceiling and "very warm air below" us, only to find that it is not there when we need it after getting all iced up? I can raise my hand to this one.

What you perceived you learned on this little experiement means nothing in the real world of ice. Try shooting an approach to near mins, at max power, shaking and buffeting all the way down the GS because the warm air that was supposed to be there wasn't. You saw a miniscule (sp?) part of the equation.

That 10,000 hour CFII should be shot before he/she trys to kill someone else.

 

[TDTURBO]

I read this and cringe. How many us have taken off with a high ceiling and "very warm air below" us, only to find that it is not there when we need it after getting all iced up? I can raise my hand to this one.

What you perceived you learned on this little experiment means nothing in the real world of ice. Try shooting an approach to near mins, at max power, shaking and buffeting all the way down the GS because the warm air that was supposed to be there wasn't. You saw a minuscule (sp?) part of the equation.

That 10,000 hour CFII should be shot before he/she trys to kill someone else.

Lets get off the ice, point taken, the day I was in the air was getting warmer the farther south I was heading, you weren't there, period. Not everything is balck or white. If every plane in the Midwest were to stay grounded during an airmet, what do you think would happen to aviation?

Your experience taught you to do a better pre-flight weather briefing and get more accurate temps aloft, if possible.

You are comparing Apples to Oranges, I was in 50 degree air at 4500 and in an icing laying 100ft thick at 6000. The air below was only getting warmer as the from and winds shifted south after a passing low. What you learned should have been to learn weather if you are going to skeet through layers, not rag me for what I did.

I didn't go up and say, "gee, today would be a great day to try and kill myself to see how much ice a 182 can carry", I had perfect conditions arise at the perfect time. Something I wouldn't do again because I don't need to, 182's don't like to be iced. Jeez

 

[USMCmech]

Tdturbo

I have to agree with everybody else here. Flying into known iceing in a plane that isn't equiped for it, "just to see what is like" is attempted suicide. You lucked out this time.

What really frightens me is that you seem to think that this was no big deal. If you tell other young pilots about this wiht this attitude, they may attempt something similiar, and they may not be so lucky.



If you disagree with Avbug, that's fine. I disagree with him sometimes too. However you seem to attack him anytime you think diffrently.

If you have a diffrent opinion, and you simply state your view of things and why you think this way. Then everybody gets to here another viewpoint. If you attack another person then nobody pays attention to the content of your post, they just concentrate on the harsh words.

 

[TDTURBO]

tdturbo jr,
deflecting the focus away from what you said about flying into icing conditions by pointing your finger at Avbug is not going to wash here, what you said was deplorable, in fact, it seems that the other responders on the ipilot web site told you off pretty good too, and even said Avbug was right concerning the Ag plane flying!

Looks like no one wants to hear your sorry arse whining about big bad avbug hurting your feelings, go somewhere else to cry, were full up on babysisting here. No one here is buying your act either.

Phil,

If you bothered to read the header, this IS about Avbug and I, not about icing.
Although this is part of the discussion, the real issue is Avbug is upset because not all his posted info is factual and he doesn't like geing "called out" and proven wrong. It's just like, in his words", poking at a caged pig in a pen.

One more note, check again who started the thread, that may give you a hint on "who's doing the whining".

I was unaware I was "selling" an act. Consider youself sold then, you read it.
In case you can't find your way, here is the link.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=45515&highlight=tdturbo

 

[TDTURBO]

AVBUG

[QOUTE=Avbug]I'm grateful for the experience...it goes toward helping me stay alive the next time around.[/QOUTE]


Profound!

One point for avbug, he finally gets it! Hurray!

 

[siucavflight]

Turbo,

You are a baby, get over it, dont fly in ice in a 182. Avbug has a lot more experience than you. He was only trying to point something out to you that was unsafe. This board comes down to a bunch of pilots trying to help each other out. His coments might sound harsh but no one here wants to hear about you burning one in one day. Be safe, getting ice intentionally no matter the circumstance is unsafe, not smart, and illegal. Go to your safety seminar listen to what they have to say and try and abide by it, I know that none of them will say that it is a good idea to experiment with ice.

You want to know how a 182 flies with ice on the wings? Like sh!t.

 

[TDTURBO]

You want to know how a 182 flies with ice on the wings? Like sh!t.

No Shi!T

 

[phil]

tdturdo,

I'm finding it hard to let this statement go.

You said,

Lets get off the ice, point taken, the day I was in the air was getting warmer the farther south I was heading, you weren't there, period. Not everything is balck or white. If every plane in the Midwest were to stay grounded during an airmet, what do you think would happen to aviation?

The appropriate answer is yes, the airplanes not equipied to fly in ice don't fly, they stay grounded, and the larger planes that are equiped can opt to fly, but all still try to AVOID ice if possible.

How is it that you do not understand this??

You say you've been flying for 22 years?

Something here doesn't add up. I am puzzled by your responses.

 

[350DRIVER]

and the larger planes that are equiped can opt to fly, but all still try to AVOID ice if possible.

You may "try" but it is an absolute given (including your "all") that during certain times of the year ice will be picked up, a no brainer. No and's if's or but's about it. If you don't like ice and want to make sure you "can" avoid it at all times then move south to Florida or out west. No big deal at all for equipment that is certified for flight into known icing conditions and that can knock it off the plane. I think this is being blown out of proportion. How much experience in icing have you experienced?. I would think not much given your responses.

 

[phil]

The context is suggesting to student pilots that it's ok to intentionally fly during an airment into known icing conditions in a plane unequiped for it. The appropriate response is it is not ok-stay grounded, do not suggest to GA pilots that it is an advisable thing to do when it is known in advance that iceing conditions exist. I still don't think he gets it. It is a big deal. But I agree, nuff said.

 

[TDTURBO]

Where do you live Phil?


Where were you trained?


How many hours and what kind of ratings do you have?


You may not know how wx is here in the great lakes, almost everyday there is an airmet for icing, there are days that I am at the airport with an active airmet and there isn't a cloud in the sky for miles. It's a skill aquired through years of flying in the stuff and studying wx that gives you the right to make the call. Sometimes you get it wrong and live, but you do learn. Experience is only aquired through time and exposure. It's a judgment call that differs from day to day, hour to hour. Unless you were in the plane with me, making judgements are baseless.

In no way do I condone low time pilots fly in active airmets for ice. You take baby steps through distance, minimums, winds and range. There are no hard rules, not here at least.

 

[avbug]

If you don't like ice and want to make sure you "can" avoid it at all times then move south to Florida or out west.

Ice is a fact of life in the west, too. Much of the year round due to hills and associated wx.

 

[wmuflyguy]

there are days that I am at the airport with an active airmet and there isn't a cloud in the sky for miles.

Then the airmet isnt even an issue. The Ice airmet will be issued, and give location of freezing levels and say you'll get ice in clouds and precip from freezing level to some other altitude.

Oh well this whole thread is pointless, i am now dumber for having replied. keep beating the dead horse....it is almost dog food

 

[phil]

I did was wrong per FAR but right per me getting to know intimately what icing can do instead of later in worse conditions with no prior experience. I got the experience now, that's the bottom line. Certain things you just gotta do, safe, stupid or not. Everyone that flies has done it or will do it.

I fly over mountains at night, over warm water with PFD's and rafts and experiment with airflow degradation in 100 thick layer in freezing temp to get a handle on how my plane reacts with a little ice on it. Yes, I did this on purpose with 6000 ft of 50 degree air under me and won't fly with anyone without icing experience. I have that now and lived without breaking a sweat because there was no danger.

BTW: There was a CFII with 10,000 hrs in the right seat, it was his idea, I was all for it.

Do not try to deflect the absurdity of your statements by pointing your finger at me either.

You are the one that made these statements and advocated it on a student pilot board by boasting about it, plain and simple. Take care on what you post there, someone may try and emulate you and not be so lucky.

I am done beating this dead horse.

 

[TDTURBO]

Then the airmet isnt even an issue. The Ice airmet will be issued, and give location of freezing levels and say you'll get ice in clouds and precip from freezing level to some other altitude.

Oh well this whole thread is pointless, i am now dumber for having replied. keep beating the dead horse....it is almost fog food

Exactly, so flying with an active airmet doesn't mean you're grounded. My point.

My God some people are thick.

Are you getting this Phil?

BTW Phil, ipilot isn't a student pilot forum, most on that thread have been flying more than 20 years, you got that info from avbug not me.

There is a special website called studentpilot.com, I don't post there as it relates to this subject.

 

[350DRIVER]

Ice is a fact of life in the west, too. Much of the year round due to hills and associated wx.

avbug,

In some of that "life" out west you are absolutely correct. I don't think you can make that same argument when comparing say San Diego to Cleveland, Los Angeles to Detroit, Tampa to Chicago, etc, (as I meant)..I think you get the jist of what I was referring to. I should have probably been a little more specific when I made that statement. The mountain areas and other regions out west it is also a given that ice is a fact of life, I can't argue that with you.

c h e e r s

3 5 0

 

[rchcfi]

After reading this whole back and forth rant, I've come to one conclusion. And that is, don't even place yourself in a situation that can get you killed.

The last thing we need (that really hasn't been discussed much) is someone going up in a situation and surviving, only to say "Hey, that wasn't so bad". So the next time they go back to the old "But it wasn't that bad last time". And the next thing you know, someone rips the wings off a 182 diving to get airpseed after picking up ice that wasn't reported to be that bad.

 

[TDTURBO]

After reading this whole back and forth rant, I've come to one conclusion. And that is, don't even place yourself in a situation that can get you killed.

Then I suggest you stay on the ground in a shelter, everytime you fly, drive, walk across the street, take a bath, ect............You put yourself in situations that can get you killed. If I lived like that I would miss out on what life is all about, enjoying it.

To you're credit, I am sure you meant to say, "don't take unecessary risks".

Correct me if I am wrong.


Even then, you still will miss out, there are a lot of sky divers on this site, I think that qualifies as an "unecessary risk".

To each his own!


That's funny, I just noticed you're sig, "What me worry". Telling indeed.

 

[avbug]

Even then, you still will miss out, there are a lot of sky divers on this site, I think that qualifies as an "unecessary risk".

To each his own!

Spoken like a true, uninformed wuffo. What risk?

Exactly, so flying with an active airmet doesn't mean you're grounded. My point.

My God some people are thick.

Your point, if you're counting disinformation and incorrect concepts. If conditions exist that are known to be conducive to the formation of ice, for regulatory purposes, you have known ice. If you have an airmet warning of ice, you have known ice. If you have a pirep of ice, you have known ice. If conditions exist which might cause ice, you have known ice.

But you're right...you are thick.

BTW Phil, ipilot isn't a student pilot forum, most on that thread have been flying more than 20 years, you got that info from avbug not me.

Again, td, lying doesn't become us, does it? That tidbit didn't come from me, it came from you, and it's wrong. Ipilot is indeed a forum populated largely by student pilots, prospective pilots, and private pilots...and it's generally a congenial place that is a good environment for those that visit. Your brand of poison only polutes it, just as you do here. You just happened to go over there recently to suggest how ignorant and unprofessional all posters on flightinfo are. You've done the same thing here, to the folks there. Seems that everybody suits your purpose for a time, and then you defecate on them, too.

There is a special website called studentpilot.com, I don't post there.

Oh, but you surely did, for quite some time, didn't you?

 

[wmuflyguy]

Spoken like a true, uninformed wuffo. What risk?

See the post about the guy who was killed when he collided with the plane he jumped out of.

 

[TDTURBO]

See the post about the guy who was killed when he collided with the plane he jumped out of.

There is no risk in skydiving, it's perfectly safe, just ask avbug. Then tell that to the hundreds/thousands killed doing it because it was "necessary" to jump.

AB has deteriorated to ridiculous retorts of meritless banter.

You made your bed AB, now sleep in it.

I rest my case.


Goodnight AB, I love you too.

 

[FN FAL]

The context is suggesting to student pilots that it's ok to intentionally fly during an airment into known icing conditions in a plane unequiped for it. The appropriate response is it is not ok-stay grounded, do not suggest to GA pilots that it is an advisable thing to do when it is known in advance that iceing conditions exist. I still don't think he gets it. It is a big deal. But I agree, nuff said.

The first time I got ice on a non-known icing certified plane by accident, I had some deep thinking to do.

First, I thought the best thing to do was to pull the power back to idle and kick a rudder once the stall horn sounded, but then I said to myself, "nah...I got 36 car payments to make!"

What were we talking about?

 

[328dude]

AVbug ='s Phil

 

[BankAccount=0$]

I hate to be the one to say it but go ahead TDTurbo, go fly your mighty 182 into icing conditions. Flaunt the reg's and learn as much as you can about "airflow degredation" with your 10,000 hour CFI. Go forth and load up you new Twin Star with ice so it looks like a popsicle as it falls out of the sky. You obviously know more than anybody who posts info that might one day save your life on these and other message boards. Just make sure to let everybody who might share the airspace around you know when you intend to do it so we all can steer clear of the area.

Yeah, I know I may sound cynical, but some people never learn, and we all get to read the ensuing accident report that follows....................

For the rest of you, fly legal, fly safe, and enjoy the gift of flight.........