Tales from my NJA interview

[ozpilot]

I
Oz - thanks for the .pdf file. I was actually just lookin for something like this.

M

Your welcome. The Flight Safety manuals that we use are also on the internet, but I think that would be overkill.

Heres my view on the X. To me its a love/hate relationship. I'm on the 7 & 7 and I can tell you that by day 5 I'm ready to go home. On my last tour we did 5 transcons in 7 days. That gets old. On the other hand when I'm at home around day 5 or 6 I'm ready to go flying again.

At the moment I'm at home with a sprained shoulder (next time I'll let the FO load the bags ). So I have not been in the plane for 2 weeks. Next week is a week off. The week after that is Flight Safety Recurrent followed by another week off. After that I have a week of vacation followed by another week off. So its going to be another 5+ weeks before I strap on the plane again.

As much as I like to spend time with the family, I know I'm going to be chomping at the bit to get back in the plane again.

 

[skiandsurf]

How long is a typical overnight on the X.. I know it'll probably vary, but because it's so busy are they mostly 10 hrs with an early show? Or do ya get a descent overnight sometimes? To catch up on some rest.

There is nothing "typical" about NJ flying. The only thing constant is change.

It seems like everyweek is different from the last week. One week you will be bustin your tail on transcons, then next week you will be doing short flights. There is no rhyme or reason. One exception, if you get paired up with a guy that doesnt want to work, and the company knows this guy, you can expect an easy week.

Your question was more about the overnights, again there is no straight answer. 14/10s is a clue. 14 hrs of duty, followed by a 10 hr rest. Fatigue calls are almost expected if they work you too hard. Its not a problem.

Remember this, you dont make (as much) money sitting in a hotel.

 

[ozpilot]

How long is a typical overnight on the X.. I know it'll probably vary, but because it's so busy are they mostly 10 hrs with an early show? Or do ya get a descent overnight sometimes? To catch up on some rest.

In my experience, in a 7 day tour we might get 2 or 3 ten hour turns. If you get 2 in a row, I would really question taking a third.

IMHO the biggest threat to safety at Netjets (or any non-scheduled operation) is fatigue.

Unlike the 121 world, scheduling will work you every day 14/10 if necessary to cover the trip load. This is the single biggest complain you will hear on the road at Netjets.

Do I blame them? No, they have a job to do too. Do I care? No.

I take the view that when scheduling adds a trip to my line, they are not telling us to do it, they are asking us to do it. If, in the crews opinion, we can safely make they trip then we will, if not we wont.

The reason that the company designates me as PIC and gives me the responsibility for a $20 million plane, the crew and the passengers is because they expect that I can make that decision.

The big plus of Netjets is that the company respects your decision. If you call fatigue you get 14 hours off with no questions asked. If you need more tell them. I've used the F word many times and never had a problem.

 

[Seat 0A]

I take the view that when scheduling adds a trip to my line, they are not telling us to do it, they are asking us to do it. If, in the crews opinion, we can safely make they trip then we will, if not we wont.

The reason that the company designates me as PIC and gives me the responsibility for a $20 million plane, the crew and the passengers is because they expect that I can make that decision.

The big plus of Netjets is that the company respects your decision. If you call fatigue you get 14 hours off with no questions asked. If you need more tell them. I've used the F word many times and never had a problem.

I agree 100% with Oz. However, a caution for any newbies out there; you WILL run into captains who you will swear must have left their balls at home. I still run into these types nearly every tour. When the conversation turns to long days/fatigue they will proudly tell you "I have NEVER fatigued since I have been here".

These guys are dangerous and you need to feel free to tell them you are done and are calling in fatigued. I am paired with a lot of new FO's who tell me they are hesitant to call in fatigued while on probation (and have never had a captain do it for them either). Don't ever feel this way. Do the right thing and the company will support you, probation or not.

There is nothing lower than a captain who does not take the utmost care of his partner. This includes fatigue issues, crewfood, buying the occasional beer or dinner, splitting of Avtrip and Atlantic rewards, helping to clean the cabin, letting the FO check in first at the hotel. I mention this because I see the exact opposite happening on a regular basis.

Welcome to NJA. The majority of the folks here are some of the best people I have met.

 

[shroomwell]

Do you loose pay if you call in fatigued at NJA?

 

[imacdog]

Do you loose pay if you call in fatigued at NJA?

No, you do not "loose" pay, you don't lose pay either.

 

[CA1900]

Do you loose pay if you call in fatigued at NJA?

Nope.

The fatigue call relieves you from operating an airplane (or any other vehicle) through the end of that duty period, and gives you at least 14 hours of rest (versus the normal 10-hour minimum) to recuperate. It's a really good tool to have.

 

[jaybird]

How long is a typical overnight on the X.. I know it'll probably vary, but because it's so busy are they mostly 10 hrs with an early show? Or do ya get a descent overnight sometimes? To catch up on some rest.

When i was at my regional job, 14 hours was a short overnight. At NetJets 14 hours is a long overnight. At least on the XL.

 

[CA1900]

When i was at my regional job, 14 hours was a short overnight.

At my regional job, 8-8.5 hours was a typical overnight. It's all perspective.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Good for you. At least you have time in the X and you can tell your war stories - good or bad. I have friends in both the X and the XL/S at Netjets and both are tired after their 7-day tours. Big surprise with the biggest fleets at Netjets - you can't escape long and busy tours on either fleet. If you are so tired you should have upgraded into the Beechjunk instead of the XL/S and become a lazy FBO TV-watcher (great if you want to catch up on CNBC) in between flights. Why would you possibly move to another busy fleet if you were so tired after flying the X? I guess you needed that extra $250 per month and the busy schedule didn't bother you too much.

IMO, if you are going to work hard anyway, you might as well do it in a hotrod. Sure, you and others will do what you can to slam the X and "scare" the incoming pilots with your dire warnings - that's great Dad... Some people are jaded and couldn't care less - I guess you are among them. I've heard great things about flying the X at Netjets and the fact that it is one of the busiest fleets is old news.

I'm just curious how you became the expert on life at NJA.

 

[On Your Six]

I'm just curious how you became the expert on life at NJA.

Grump,

One of my best friends is on the X at Netjets and I speak with him every other day or so. I have another good squadron buddy on the XL/S and he fills me in on everything as well. It's almost as good as being there myself. Do I know everything? Nope. Do I have a pretty good idea? Yes.

That said, I realize that certain aspects of life at Netjets are different for different pilots. Some pilots couldn't care less what they fly - they just live for their time off (work to live vs. live to work). That's fine and I would say that is pretty pervasive nowadays. Others at Netjets really enjoy their airplanes, their wide variety of destinations ("enjoy visiting new airfields and exotic destinations") and their schedule. I just think that people tend to generalize too much - just because you might not like your airplane or your busy schedule doesn't mean that others would necessarily agree. To each his own I guess...

What I do know is that Netjets is very different from 121 flying and, with its benefits/comp package, fleet variety and 7/7 schedule, it has a lot to offer. Now, if it could just improve its domicile policy....

 

[Fozzy]

You will work at NJA as hard as you let them. Very simple.

I have nothing to prove anymore, so when I get tired, I drop the axe. I don't like what I see, I delay. To many bags, we ship them. We are actually given the tools to be actual Captains. Hard to believe but it is true. Some guys just have no balls and like being the @itch. Oh and don't think that as a newhire FO you don't have the same tools. If you are right, you will be supported!

Welcome.

 

[johnsonrod]

You will work at NJA as hard as you let them. Very simple.

I have nothing to prove anymore, so when I get tired, I drop the axe. I don't like what I see, I delay. To many bags, we ship them. We are actually given the tools to be actual Captains. Hard to believe but it is true. Some guys just have no balls and like being the @itch. Oh and don't think that as a newhire FO you don't have the same tools. If you are right, you will be supported!

Welcome.

Good post.

 

[Dorkjet]

800

Grump,

Did you ever come over to the Collins 800? I remember when I was hired a year ago you mentioned that you were trying to. Just curious. By the way, I LOVE the airplane, it's a joy to fly, and the trips are pretty good.

 

[johnsonrod]

Grump,

Did you ever come over to the Collins 800? I remember when I was hired a year ago you mentioned that you were trying to. Just curious. By the way, I LOVE the airplane, it's a joy to fly, and the trips are pretty good.

Now that's a good reason why it can be important to get assigned a nice or "preferrable" aircraft as a newbie FO at Netjets. If you are going to be an FO for 3-5 years anyway, it might as well be in an airplane you enjoy and appreciate. That's great to hear. I would hate to be assigned a crapbox and then not look forward to those long duty days for my first 5 years...

I've heard the 800XPC is a real nice aircraft to fly - nice Pro Line 21 system up front that makes your job a lot easier at times...

 

[imacdog]

Now that's a good reason why it can be important to get assigned a nice or "preferrable" aircraft as a newbie FO at Netjets. If you are going to be an FO for 3-5 years anyway, it might as well be in an airplane you enjoy and appreciate. That's great to hear. I would hate to be assigned a crapbox and then not look forward to those long duty days for my first 5 years...

I've heard the 800XPC is a real nice aircraft to fly - nice Pro Line 21 system up front that makes your job a lot easier at times...

After your two year seat lock you are welcome to bid FO on any vacancies that show up. Many of the FO vacancies go unfilled by current pilots and are passed onto new hires.

 

[DO-82 driver]

I've run into a number of new hires who feel that if they are going to be right seat for up to 5 years they might as well bid into another a/c, namely the Falcon 2000, and sit right seat there. One of the easiest jobs in the Company.

I don't blame them. Beautiful airplane, nice type rating and you won't be doing much flying for 2 years based on the inefficiencies within the training department as far as IOE goes.

 

[Guitar rocker]

I've run into a number of new hires who feel that if they are going to be right seat for up to 5 years they might as well bid into another a/c, namely the Falcon 2000, and sit right seat there. One of the easiest jobs in the Company.

I don't blame them. Beautiful airplane, nice type rating and you won't be doing much flying for 2 years based on the inefficiencies within the training department as far as IOE goes.

I have also noticed many new hires leaving and getting hired at Somali Air to fly their new DC3 on floats. Once they do the crossing, they take the floats off for their arrival into Mogadishu....pick up more Somalis and bring em back to Maine. The Dc3 in itself are for the many goats, chickens, pigs and other various animals that need to come along for the haul too. The pilots do have to go through limited veterenarian training prior to IOE. They will be board certified and receive specialty verterenarian medical training (to include surgery) for goats, llamas and alpacas. They clear customs right at 3B5.....Mike Twicthell is working as the customs/border patrol agent now as well and Dotty is working as an immigration offficer. So that makes things easier. Once the Somalis are offloaded at 3B5, they are greeted with a lobstah dinnah and some fresh native Bangor blue berry cake. The pilots are also entitled to this wonderful dinner as well. Pay is 45 and hour with a 60 hour guarantee and a minimum of 350 dollars for any surgery performed is paid in full. No training contract either....all around, it sounds like a great deal.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Rocker....you really need to get yourself back home. Those T-storms and tornado warnings have caused you to short circuit.

 

[bosdrx]

Rocker....you really need to get yourself back home. Those T-storms and tornado warnings have caused you to short circuit.

Yeah I was totally lost on that last one... I'm glad it wasnt just me....

Hey, how long is that wait for OE these days? I heard it was going fast. Any truth to that?