Taking Down a Bad Fed

[Maria]

Hi Y'all!

There's a large foul odor eminating from a FSDO. Is there a way to remove the source of the smell?

Facts, regulations, national policy, and other written correspondance from FAA Legal has no effect on the guy. He uses the fear interrogation method for investigations getting most pilots to incriminate themselves. He has most of his cases end up with Remedial Training or violations. He just took on one of our pilots, lost, tried again, lost, and is now in round eight. The pilot has retained a lawyer to force the LOI and 709, before the guy finds a real violation.

The problem is not he's a flaming jerk, that's our POI. This guy is a flaming jerk that doesn't know what he's doing. I'd blame whatever he's been smoking or drinking, but that's being too nice.

So... what does it take to remove an ASI from their position? I know simple incompetence is not enough, and no, he's not in the military and subject to fragging.

Can he be '709'd as a certificate holder for his lack of knowledge about the regs?

We'll be watching his every move anyways, trying to stay out of his path, but when do we pull the handle, how, and for what?

Thanks,
Maria

 

[dashtrash]

Make nice with your Congressmen and Senator!

 

[Lead Sled]

I feel your pain. Several years ago, we had that very same scenario with one of our local federales at the FSDO in the city where I worked. The guy was a flaming jerk - by personal proclaimation, the world's greatest living pilot.

The problem was that there was really nothing we could really do about it and we just had to ride it out. However, what goes around comes around. Eventually, the sum total of his screw ups started to attract attention at OKC. Finally, he screwed up a helicopter checkride he was giving (there was an examiner induced accident and the helicopter was totaled). Even that wasn't quite enough to send him packing. It finally took some bad reports from the NASIP team on a couple of operators where he was POI. The guy was finally canned.

There ain't no easy way to get rid of a civil servant.
Lead Sled

 

[Cat Driver]

The problem is systemic in all bureaucracies, we have a couple of Transport Canada Inspectors up here in Canada that are lower than any street criminal in the integrity department.

They have been found guilty of lying, denying due process and missuse of the power of their office.

Results?

I have a letter from our top TC person, the Director General Civil Aviation that states that this conduct is "quite satisfactory and has his full backing".

So evidently when these rouge inspectors are protected up to the top level of Government there is not much that can be done ( legally ) to fix the problem.

Depressing isn't it?

 

[JB Bus Drvr]

Having been there as a former FED, there are some ways to draw attention to this guy to cause him to be either reassigned, transferred to a non operator position, or fired. PM me with the details and the FSDO so I can give you better direction.

 

[ThomasR]

Nice to have friends on the inside.

 

[Tim47SIP]

Dfw?

Finally, he screwed up a helicopter checkride he was giving (there was an examiner induced accident and the helicopter was totaled).

Was this guy from the Ft Worth FSDO? If so, I know him personally. A class act. For some reason, many (NOT ALL) of these guys are wannabe's that were rejected and couldn't get jobs anywhere else. The several friends that I have in the FAA are truely professional guys, but many are ...well you get the picture.

 

[FN FAL]

Hi Y'all!

There's a large foul odor eminating from a FSDO. Is there a way to remove the source of the smell?

Facts, regulations, national policy, and other written correspondance from FAA Legal has no effect on the guy....

....We'll be watching his every move anyways, trying to stay out of his path, but when do we pull the handle, how, and for what?

Thanks,
Maria

For starters, I'd sneak over by his house one night, pull out and rip up the "Kerry/Edwards" campaign signs in his front yard. That should get his goat.

 

[nikoz1200]

I feel your pain. Several years ago, we had that very same scenario with one of our local federales at the FSDO in the city where I worked. The guy was a flaming jerk - by personal proclaimation, the world's greatest living pilot.

The problem was that there was really nothing we could really do about it and we just had to ride it out. However, what goes around comes around. Eventually, the sum total of his screw ups started to attract attention at OKC. Finally, he screwed up a helicopter checkride he was giving (there was an examiner induced accident and the helicopter was totaled). Even that wasn't quite enough to send him packing. It finally took some bad reports from the NASIP team on a couple of operators where he was POI. The guy was finally canned.

There ain't no easy way to get rid of a civil servant.
Lead Sled

This checkride accident wasn't in Clearwater, was it? Scenario sounds very familiar.

 

[Swass]

Set up your own little sting operation. Use those tiny cameras and microphones, catch his ass in the act and be a covert operator for the day.

 

[wingnutt]

For starters, I'd sneak over by his house one night, pull out and rip up the "Kerry/Edwards" campaign signs in his front yard. That should get his goat.

lol...classic

 

[FN FAL]

lol...classic

hahaha...I knew someone would get it...

 

[Maria]

Just had to pass along this quote from him:

"Just read the regulations. They're quite clear!"

If they're so clear, then why does the NTSB regularly send the FAA back to change their opinion on what the reg means?!!!?

Round 10.... You'd think this inspector would have something else to do.

Grrr...

 

[Lead Sled]

Nope, it wasn't at DFW or Crystal Springs. It was out West. Our hero thought that he'd show the guy how "real pilots" to do autorotations, but he neglected to put on the carb heat. Imagine the surprise when he went to roll in the power and it wasn't there. They hit very hard and the blades took out the tail boom, the thing rolled over on its side and beat itself to death. Fortunately, no one was seriously injured. The FAA ended up geting sued and lost. (Yes, examiners can be PICs on checkrides and they can be held liable when they screw up.) This was also the same guy that made one of our pilots shut an engine down in a Cheyenne II because "it had a cold start". I never did figure that one out. Oh well, like I said, what goes around comes around. The world of aviation is very small. Once the FAA canned him he struggled finding a job. I think that he's working at a flight school somewhere.

Lead Sled

 

[Lead Sled]

If they're so clear, then why does the NTSB regularly send the FAA back to change their opinion on what the reg means?!!!?

If the regulations are so clear how about asking 10 different inspectors for an intrepretation of any given reg. You're bound to get at least 10 different answers - none of which you could rely on. If you want to have even more fun, try getting them to sign a statement saying that the sun usually rises in the east and normally sets in the west.

All I can say is that I'm sure glad that most of the ones I've known have been very fair and reasonable, actually good guys. My advise - turn on the light and make the passengers take their seats; have everyone make sure their belts are securely fastened; and hang on. It's going to be a bumpy ride for a while. Like I said, there are few things harder to git rid of than a unionized civil servant. It would probably be easier to treat a "social disease". Sorry.

Lead Sled

 

[cougar6903]

Nope, it wasn't at DFW or Crystal Springs. It was out West. Our hero thought that he'd show the guy how "real pilots" to do autorotations, but he neglected to put on the carb heat. Imagine the surprise when he went to roll in the power and it wasn't there. They hit very hard and the blades took out the tail boom, the thing rolled over on its side and beat itself to death. Fortunately, no one was seriously injured. The FAA ended up geting sued and lost. (Yes, examiners can be PICs on checkrides and they can be held liable when they screw up.) This was also the same guy that made one of our pilots shut an engine down in a Cheyenne II because "it had a cold start". I never did figure that one out. Oh well, like I said, what goes around comes around. The world of aviation is very small. Once the FAA canned him he struggled finding a job. I think that he's working at a flight school somewhere.

Lead Sled

Any chance his initials are R.T.?

 

[Lead Sled]

Any chance his initials are R.T.?

Nope. I'm going to let the guy rest in peace. He's harmless now.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Get really familiar with the 8700 and 8400 manual.

Know what he is allowed to do and you can stop him cold.

Just like the IRS, guys like this use your lack of familiarity with his operating guidelines to abuse you.

Find out who else has had bad dealings with him.

Contact your Senator.

Go to the regional and national offices.

Present carefully documented letters listing abuses.

After you have a ot of evidence, point out your issues to him and his supervisor, and have him barred from your operation.

You can then claim 'retaliation' if he tries something.

 

[flyer172r]

As told to me by a current Fed, while you are a government employee:

During the first year, they can fire you for looking at them wrong
During the second year, it takes an act of Congress
During the third year, it takes an act of God

 

[BD King]

Always make it a point to be on good terms with the FSDO's chief. Years ago I had a six month check with a jerk. It was a hot and humid summer afternoon and before departure, he and I got into a pi$$ing contest. I very simply told him that as the aircraft commander I wanted him out of the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** airplane. Talk about dumbfounded. He had over a mile walk back to the terminal........Anyhows, I call the chief and told him what I did. He rolled laughing.......No more problems with the jerk.

 

[ScRaMJeT]

This is an Easy one: Maria since your a female, Just Hollar sexual Harrasment. It works every time.

We had a situation in SOCAL where the degsinated examiner, was joking around with the student and the student took it all seriously. The student just happened to be a well educated former lawyer, he took it all the way to the top of the Examiner unit in OK city and he almost got his DE taken away he ended up having to do checkrides with someone watching him for a year. The student was part native american and the examiner was making some questionable jokes, so the student used Racial Descrimination to get him.

Just a thought

 

[English]

This is an Easy one: Maria since your a female, Just Hollar sexual Harrasment. It works every time.

We had a situation in SOCAL where the degsinated examiner, was joking around with the student and the student took it all seriously. The student just happened to be a well educated former lawyer, he took it all the way to the top of the Examiner unit in OK city and he almost got his DE taken away he ended up having to do checkrides with someone watching him for a year. The student was part native american and the examiner was making some questionable jokes, so the student used Racial Descrimination to get him.

Just a thought

I think I know this DPE. Sounds like the same one who kept making sexual jokes to my female friend in the middle of her checkride.

 

[Maria]

Shows what a tiny world this is... Mention a bad Fed and three mention similar guys... and two recognize those other guys.

Just got word today that all charges are dropped. No 709, LOI, Remedial Training, Warning Letter, 'We'll be back," or even an apology. Just "dropped".

Thanks to Logbook Pro for allowing me to print just the affected flights without having to expose my paper logbook for review.

Thanks to all that PM'd and responded.

So much for an 'open' relationship with the FAA. Just one bad egg and I came close to losing everything. The last 10 years gone. Income, gone. Job, gone. Future, compromised. Stress, extreme. I've prepared to lose the medical. I've never thought about losing the certificates.

There are two Feds that I'll still talk to without a lawyer. If they think I need a correction, they'll tell me first, not threaten. The rest I can't trust. My co-captain, a big 'open-relationship' proponent has revised his opinion. 20+ years as a safety counselor, he'll now send folks to the aviation lawyer first before they talk to the FAA about problems.

There are no checks or balances in this system, unless you can afford to fight in front of an NTSB board, and your only chance is if the FAA screwed up their paperwork. You're guilty until proven innocent, and that's only if the Inspector/Lawyers are willing to listen to your evidence.

Bob Hoover was only an exception because he made the press AND he could afford to fight.

I'm hitting the jack daniels tonight... ain't flying 'til Monday. That should be enough time to recover. . .

Regards,
Maria

 

[ScRaMJeT]

Good

Good job on fighting the system. Your pretty much correct in everything you said. I'm glad you made it through.

ScramJet

 

[TurboS7]

Maria,

The best weapon that you have is in your phone book. You need to contact your rep. both Dem. and Rep. (even though I am a Rep. the Dems. respond better to something like this) Include with your contact all correspondence and examples of him being a pain. As a women if you do it you will get extra points.The heat will be on and it won't be long before he ask for a transfer or he gets put on diffrent status. It is an election year you have everything going for you. In the end you will teach him that he is to be public servant and he is there to serve the public, and in accordance with the Federal Aviation act of 1958 promote aviation.Some of these guys think they are the newest Kojak in aviation, they have a lot to learn.
In respect to the FAA as a whole I find that they are wonderful people to work with. The ratio is about 1 guy for every 1000 that tends to be a jerk, about the same for any place in the world.

Dave