Tail draggin' ain't easy!

[Traumahawk]

" KEEP THE STICK BACK




That'll be $5 "

And by doing that you will not learn to wheel land land and you will not be a tail wheel pilot.

That will be free advice!!

I think you know what I meant, and if you don't, I hope you don't have a high deductible.

 

[Lead Sled]

Sure, but I hear the DC3s are being replaced by those new-fangled Convairs, and eventually you might work your way into the DC-6. BUT the real excitement is the dawn of the Jet Age. Imagine yourself flying the Boeing 707 someday!

You and Captain Travolta.

 

[aucfi]

A cub on the other hand is like the best woman, best steak, best whiskey, best sense of well being a pilot can experence, at least to me anyway.

Me too buddy!

 

[Cat Driver]

" I think you know what I meant, and if you don't, I hope you don't have a high deductible. "

O.K. I was just making a tounge in cheek comment.

But now I fail to understand what keeping the stick back has to do with a high deductable?

There are only a few instances when you have to keep the stick back.

So what exactly is it that I am missing?

 

[avbug]

More than that, keeping that stick back at the wrong time can hurt you, too. What about aircraft that lock the tailwheel by holding aft stick? As Catdriver noted...what about wheel landings? Some aircraf trequire the stick back for taxi, or it's taught in them...but not all.

In the Dromader, we lock as we're rolling out or clearing the runway, and don't unlock it (centered) until entering the runway for takeoff again. In a thrush, holding the stick back locks the tailwheel, as it does on many other aircraft.

Do what's appropriate for the specific airplane you're flying, but those of you who got an endorsement in your logbook and then became an overnight expert, don't dole out advice on general principle when it may not apply. Someone might just listen and get hurt.

Traumahawk, I suspect you'll find that Catdriver probably has more time in conventional gear aircraft than you'll have in your total career...you might wanna listen to his free advice.

 

[avbug]

Holding that stick back all the time could hurt you, too. Holding it back locks the tailwheel in some aircraft.

Those who became experts by receiving an endorsement in their log might want to withold some of that expert advice except with respect to a specific airplane. Someone might listen to it and get hurt.

Some might want to listen to Catdriver's free advice too...he's probably got more experience in conventional gear aircraft than many here will have total time in their careers.

 

[mcjohn]

How about a guess from the guy who almost killed the plane yesterday:
Pulling back on the stick would pin the tailwheel down and increase friction to oppose the x wind taking the tail out? I had the perpeptual main gear bounce thing going on everytime I tried. Guess that means I wasn't slow enough yet.
By the way flyingskip, I'm trying to knock this endorsement out so I won't be wasteing your time if I head your way in month or two. However, my TWE guy won't be back from spraying mosquitos for a month.

 

[avbug]

Holding the stick back is appropriate sometimes, but sometimes not. Pinning the tail down is a good idea when it's down and you don't want it coming up, but attempting to do so too early in the landing or too far into the takeoff may result in the nose coming off the ground too soon and the tail still being down where you don't have good rudder authority.

The most hazardous time for you is the transition when the tail is coming up, and the time between when it starts to lose effectiveness and when it's back on the ground and you have tailwheel authority...that time between tailwheel authority and rudder authority.

 

[pilotyip]

I find in the B-17 and the C-47 making wheel landings that a little forward pressure after touchdown sticks on the ground pretty good. On the B-17 using the ailerons to keep it going straight as the tail comes down is really important. On airplanes with locking tail wheels don’t unlock them early. I never did really figure out the C-46

 

[Cat Driver]

" Some might want to listen to Catdriver's free advice too...he's probably got more experience in conventional gear aircraft than many here will have total time in their careers."

Yeh over the years flying tail wheel airplanes was just a job and I passed the ten thousand mark on that kind of equipment many years ago.

What pilots must remember is regardless of what airplane you intend to fly get type specific training on it from someone with experience on type. Even the most simple of aircraft can bite you if you are not familiar with their characteristics.

I truly can't remember how many different tail wheel airplanes I have flown but there are a few that need extra care and attention if you don't want to find yourself off the runway such as the Pitts Special and the Turbo Goose.

Once again do not take it for granted that you can safely fly anything without a good check out on type.

The easiest of the bunch just has to be the DC3 because it is such a well designed little toy.

I still fly one ocasionally that belongs to the group I fly for in the air show display business in Europe.

Anyhow flying is all about training..or the lack thereof...

Cat D.

 

[urflyingme?!]

From a very limited tailwheeler:
1. Don't be afraid to go around
2.Enjoy a 30 degree slip at least once a day
3.Enjoy quiet, smooth wheel landings, even if they only happen once a day as well!!!! (they are smooth and sweet are they not?)

 

[bugchaser]

What's the big deal??

 

[Loafman]

???

You mean the sidewalls of the tires aren't for straightening out the crab angle??? My old Pitts never gave me any trouble. I prayed for crosswinds so I could actually see the runway on final.

 

[Traumahawk]

More than that, keeping that stick back at the wrong time can hurt you, too. What about aircraft that lock the tailwheel by holding aft stick?
Do what's appropriate for the specific airplane you're flying, but those of you who got an endorsement in your logbook and then became an overnight expert, don't dole out advice on general principle when it may not apply. Someone might just listen and get hurt.

Traumahawk, I suspect you'll find that Catdriver probably has more time in conventional gear aircraft than you'll have in your total career...you might wanna listen to his free advice.

Well with all DUE respect, someone with that much conventional time should know what was meant by "keep the stick back". I wasn't denouncing wheel landings, or boldly procaiming that the likes of many a/c (like some T-6's and of course the 'all too common' Dromader) should always have the elevator in the full up postion. Heck, I'm surprised you didn't throw in the fact that forward stick is often warranted with strong enough winds from behind too.

Cmon people!! There are always exceptions. However, for just about every common taildragger you're gonna find on most airports, it's actually quite sound advice, and often some of the most ignored advice. Often the cure to "squirrely airplanes" people label for their tendency to "groundloop as soon as you untie them."

For a comment made in regards to the situation at hand I think it was more than appropriate. Avbug, often your different point of view is a healthy perspective to consider.

In this case...yes, thank you so much for clarifying for all of us lowtimers that there are actually specific airplanes out there that may require different, uncommon or just plain specific handling. I really had no idea.

Kind of like you have no idea what aircraft i get into on my days off regardless of how much experience you think I have. I'd take advice from both 25,000hr pilots and 25 hr pilots. And I'm sure you both have much advice to offer, but then again, to think the phrase "keep the stick back" when made in reply to a thread started by a tw beginner in a 170, was meant to exclude any landing BUT 3 pointer's and in ALL types of airplanes...heheh...if I didn't know better i'd ask if you had ever even flown a cub!!
Seriously...Lighten up guys.

P.S. Hey AV, If I was taxiing an a/c with a locking mechanism that engaged when the stick was held full aft, could you explain to everyone what painstaking process it would be to unlock the wheel to make a 90 degree left turn at 5 M.P.H.??

 

[Traumahawk]

...those of you who got an endorsement in your logbook and then became an overnight expert, don't dole out advice on general principle when it may not apply. Someone might just listen and get hurt.

By the way, this is the type of comment that would put you in the pompous @ss category for tonight. You know exactly where my comment was meant to be applied, it would just be inconvienient for you to admit so while at the same time dishing out humble pie for everyone.

T-Hawk

 

[mcjohn]

By the way, this is the type of comment that would put you in the pompous @ss category for tonight. You know exactly where my comment was meant to be applied, it would just be inconvienient for you to admit so while at the same time dishing out humble pie for everyone.

T-Hawk

With all due respect, I beleive this is an over reaction. Before this thread was long I was studying it and all I remember was someone said that 'dancing on the pedals' was my problem and that if I land perfectly straight it will continue rolling straight. My first landing attempt was perfectly squared up so I didn't flutter my toes to stay on top of it and guess what? Mild ground loop #1. Then I told the instructor what I had read about over controlling with the feet and I'm sure you can imagine his reaction.

 

[bugchaser]

You guys are really making too much out of all this. Just keep the airplane straight and remember where the wind is coming from so that you can apply the appropriate inputs to compensate for that. It's really not that hard. It is however an aquired skill that takes some practice. It is not something that is easily explaned on a website. Find an instructor that knows what the hell he is doing and have fun.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Before this thread was long I was studying it and all I remember was someone said that 'dancing on the pedals' was my problem and that if I land perfectly straight it will continue rolling straight. My first landing attempt was perfectly squared up so I didn't flutter my toes to stay on top of it and guess what? Mild ground loop #1. Then I told the instructor what I had read about over controlling with the feet and I'm sure you can imagine his reaction.

There's a middle ground between "not moving the rudder pedals" and "over controlling with the feet". That middle ground involves observing deviations and correcting for them, not "fluttering your toes" just for the sake of movement, and not letting a deviation get big enough to cause a loss of control. (well, not so much "cause a loss of control" as "indicate that a loss of control happened somewhere in the past".)
Stand along the runway sometime when your instructor is landing. I'd be willing to bet that he doesn't move the rudder pedals unless there's a necessity to do so.

Fly safe!

David

 

[Wang Chung]

You guys are really making too much out of all this. Just keep the airplane straight and remember where the wind is coming from so that you can apply the appropriate inputs to compensate for that. It's really not that hard. It is however an aquired skill that takes some practice. It is not something that is easily explaned on a website. Find an instructor that knows what the hell he is doing and have fun.

Best post so far - pretty much sums up the important points!

 

[inline]

With those spring steel landing gear and long arm to the vertical stab, eg, C-170,180 and 185, if landing with a strong xwind epecially on asphalt or concrete runway, you'll be better off with a wheel landing.