TAB Express

[bobbysamd]

TAB

Once more, TriDriver, good comments.

Of course, many foreign airlines train their pilots themselves or through contractors ab initio. Not a moment of flight time is wasted boring holes. So, the end result is a very well-trained, but low-time pilot. It works, obviously, for such carriers as Alitalia, Lufthansa, JAL, ANA and others.

Perhaps the issue to consider is how well a low-timer coming out of a U.S. program can hack airline training. I worked at MAPD and it worked in getting people to Mesa at 300 hours. During those 300 hours they were totally immersed in Mesa. After that, they were on their own. Although they knew Mesa line procedures from MAPD and had ten hours flying 1900s (and were virtually ready to go on the line), handling the pressure of class might be too much for many of them. However, someone more experienced who didn't attend MAPD might do better because of that experience. So, in deciding between MAPD or TAB and instructing, maybe a person should consider if he/she would benefit by accumulating some experience instructing and/or whatever before applying to the commuters.

I also like your comments about the career-killing aspects of washing out of airline training. You are right; being prepared for the training is vital.

 

[AOPAPILOT]

Tab Express Employee Misrepresentation

While waiting in the lobby of an FBO, I was reading an article in the May 2002 issue of AviationCareer.net magazine. The article titled "Learn From An Airline Captain At TAB Express" got my attention. After reading the entire article, it bothered me to see that an individual that I had known from his previous simulator training business, is represented as a retired Delta Captain with 14,000 hours. Let me assure you that this individual is not retired from Delta and never was a pilot with Delta. I question the 14,000 hours at this point and wonder where he got that many hours. Since he is no longer listed in the FAA pilot certificate-ratings listing, under FAA.gov web-site, I could not verify his highest certificate. The last rating this individual received, that I know of, was FE. Since this is misrepresentation of background for this individual, I then was curious what other information their web-site showed. Looking at all the impressive Captains in management, sales, and flight training, I wondered whether they had inflated certificate and ratings also. To my surprise, most were listed properly, however a few had inflated titles. It seems the Captain title is handed out at Tab Express to impress potential students viewing the TAB Express web-site. I checked the individuals flight certificates and ratings using the FAA.gov web-site, pilot listing. One titled Captain has the required hours, but does not hold an ATP certificate, a requirement to upgrade to Captain in the airlines. This individual is also listed as a CFI, not true according to the FAA.gov web-site.

I now question their flight training for future career airline pilots and whether the listed airline partners are actually hiring their students with such low hours. I consider it a misrepresentation to list individuals a being Captains wheh they are not. If you doubt my findings, then go to the FAA.gov web-site. On the left hand side, look under Airman/Aircraft Registry. You will discover that what I stated is true.

For the future pilots that are looking at flight schools, do not believe all the fancy titles in their web-sites and flight magazine ads. Be sure and visit all schools that you are interested in. This will save you time and money in the long run. Each flight school will offer a little something different than their competitors. Each will state they train pilots for the airlines. Ask for a list of former students that were recently hired. If you visit, try and talk with students, away from the sales person, and get a first hand, no biased opinion. Talk with as many students as possible. Not all students will be happy with their training, so ask around. Most will give an honest opinion of the school and training. Reading pilot message boards is also a good source of information about a potential flight school . Read the messages with a grain of salt.

 

[Brutus]

The FAA.Gov web-site only lists ratings of pilots who hold a current medical certificate. If you let your medical lapse, you are deleted from the site.

 

[cyork25]

Information on TAB

Yesterday I talked to a check airman and FAA deg. examiner for American airlines 757's and 767's. I didn't tell him what school I was looking at, he told me to go to TAB, it's one of the best program's out there.

 

[bobbysamd]

Flight school consumerism

Originally posted by AOPAPILOT
For the future pilots that are looking at flight schools, do not believe all the fancy titles in their web-sites and flight magazine ads. Be sure and visit all schools that you are interested in. This will save you time and money in the long run. Each flight school will offer a little something different than their competitors. Each will state they train pilots for the airlines. Ask for a list of former students that were recently hired. If you visit, try and talk with students, away from the sales person, and get a first hand, no biased opinion. Talk with as many students as possible. Not all students will be happy with their training, so ask around. Most will give an honest opinion of the school and training. Reading pilot message boards is also a good source of information about a potential flight school . Read the messages with a grain of salt.

(emphasis added)

Now, that's great advice!

Very good comments.

 

[mccann]

Have been researching ways into commercial flying, and at this point narrowed things down to Comair, ATA, & TAB Express.

TriDriver & Bobby Sands, your comments have been very informative, thanks.

Tri, one thing that caught my eye in the TAB promo. material received today (apart from the costs!) was the repeated reference to dismissal between phases and "additional training at candidate's own expense". While clearly I'm responsible for my check-rides, the number of "gates" and thus opportunities to wash out with lots of money spent and too few hours to be competitive is a little daunting.

As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, all of the schools seem to have their own route -- TAB's is faster and more expensive, Comair's cheaper (relatively), longer (if you stay to CFI), and ATA's is something of a compromise between the two.

While the experience in a King Air (something about them... ) is attractive, the risks seem high. Having a CFI at the end of Comair's course seems a good safety-net. Tri, as a Delta pilot I'd imagine you'd have an interesting perspective on Comair compared to TAB.

Thoughts, comments from anyone?

 

[bobbysamd]

Running up the TAB

Originally posted by mccann
TAB's is faster and more expensive . . . .

(emphasis added)

Is it really?? More expensive? Probably, especially in the long run. Faster? I doubt it seriously, given today's hiring environment.

Today's hiring environment is like ten years ago, only worse, I think. In 1992, there were slim pickings indeed for pilots among the commuters. Conversely, the commuters had the pick of the litter, meaning, for your purposes, extremely qualified and experienced pilots. In those days, flight instructors like me, low-timers like you would be and those in between were competing with pilots turned loose during the Eastern and Pan Am closures.

Once more, the place might get you interviews. But there are no guarantees of the job(s) that you are seeking. Which could mean that to find work you'll have to pay another "tab" for CFI ratings. Just consider it carefully from that perspective.

Once more, best of luck with your choice. And keep us posted on where you choose and how it's going.

 

[TriDriver]

mccann

I wish I did have some good "perspective" on CAA vs. TAB Express, but I really don't know much about the Comair Academy. The "comair invasion" thread on this forum has some good info from philiplane, bobbysamd, and 172driver. It sounds like they've got a very good program at Comair Academy that, according to 172 driver, gives you a pretty good shot at getting hired at Comair.

Unfortunately, as bobbysamd has said, there really are not many gaurantees in this business at this time. Nobody graduating from TAB lately is getting any jobs. We have kept a couple of guys on as primary instructors that had a CFI when they came to TAB.

We've had a number of CFI's come to TAB to get some "advanced" training in CRM/multi-crew ops and turbine time to put on the resume, as well as to try and make sure that when they do get hired by a regional that they are ready for the training they will go through - i.e., they want to make sure they don't wash out of training when they do get their big chance to work for an airline.

As far as your concerns about washing out of TAB training, fergitabowtit!!! It appears you have a helicopter comm/inst. Are you a military trained helicopter pilot? If so, you won't have any trouble at TAB. Nobody with any enthusiasm and desire and a basic flight aptitude will have any trouble.

I'd like to think that TAB might be a quicker way to a regional than getting a CFI and spending a couple years instructing, but right now there is just not a lot of hiring acivity, and the jobs that are available have a lot of high time furloughees and CFI's that are going after them.

If you are a military trained helicopter pilot, you are prime meat for getting hired at a regional. Your total time is a little low, but they value military trained pilots highly. We've had at least one Army RW guy last summer that had about twice as much time as you. He went through the program and got scarfed up by ACA in a flash!

TAB has a couple of programs for pilots that already have some ratings. It's still expensive, but you can get your ME in the Seneca, and then build either 50 or 100 hours of Kingair time, and a bunch of simulator and ground school stuff that I think would help anybody get through their training at a regional when they get the chance.

TAB also has some other interesting stuff brewing. I've seen the correspondence from an FAR 142 outfit that is highly interested in developing a relationship with TAB. Part 142 governs "Training Centers" with advanced training devices and simulators. This outfit does a lot of training for airlines. Many of the pilots that come to them for Boeing and Airbus training are not quite up to speed and ready for the advanced training in the big airplane sims. Apparently they want to link up with TAB to supply some lower end training. This would give TAB the ability to do 142 training and supply pilots who have been through 142 training to any number of regional airlines. I still don't think there are going to be any firm gaurantees of jobs, but I'll try and post more info when we get it.

Best to you, whatever route you take.

TriDriver Bob

 

[bobbysamd]

TAB

Unfortunately, as bobbysamd has said, there really are not many gaurantees in this business at this time. Nobody graduating from TAB lately is getting any jobs. We have kept a couple of guys on as primary instructors that had a CFI when they came to TAB . . . .I'd like to think that TAB might be a quicker way to a regional than getting a CFI and spending a couple years instructing, but right now there is just not a lot of hiring acivity, and the jobs that are available have a lot of high time furloughees and CFI's that are going after them.

Once again, thanks for your objectivity, Mr. Tri.

 

[CFI'er]

The real good thing about TAB is, Mitch has told me
that if you do not get hired right away and do go out
and get a CFI and work as a flight instructor (or
non-flying job for that matter), TAB will always bring
you back for some sim and King Air flying in the future
to get you spun up for an interview when you get one
later in the future.

Ask Mitch to put into writing. It ain't gonna happen my friend. If you read TAB's ads, you will automatically bet hired when you complete their training programs. What a line of BS. Read between the lines of the contract. Do you see where they promise to bring you back for sim and King Air flying?