TA details

[pilotnbr1]

Havent heard how long you might get stuck with this turd..
Also any duty rigs?
What about deadhead pay?
Had heard rumors of Captains who upgrade start at year 1 pay. Displaced Captains also come back to the left seat at year one pay.. Any truth to that?
Do you still get block or better?

Thanks and good luck!

 

[ex j-41]

Some quick Highlights:

9% pay cut (more if above 12 years)
12 year Captain longevity cap
4 year FO longevity cap
50% 401K match up to 10%
cash payout from $2000-$26000 upon exit from bankruptcy
No flow but single day expedited interview/hiring process (2 chances)
Delta hires a certain number of 9E outside of this program as well
Mesaba flow stays intact
Some medical and furlough payouts
Health care pretty much unchanged
7.5 year guarantee for 81 900's with Richard Andersons signature on it
likely 9E becomes whole owned of Delta
Same min day of 4 hours
Some give up a week of vacation for 2014
Contract still way above lowest competitors
Delta airlines becomes involved in grievance process
5% of trips can be 5 day worth 25 hours
Probably less 150% open time, same junior man pay though
Profit sharing

Lee Moawk was instrumental in the whole deal.

PSA Rates

Captain
Year 1 $67.12
Year 10 $86.70
Year 18 $104.29

F/O
Year 1 $24.86
Year 5 $41.18
Year 8 $43.13

5 day trips? Talk about making life difficult for your families. Delta obviously doesn't care about you or your family. Discusting

 

[Monster Buck]

PSA Rates

Captain
Year 1 $67.12
Year 10 $86.70
Year 18 $104.29

F/O
Year 1 $24.86
Year 5 $41.18
Year 8 $43.13

5 day trips? Talk about making life difficult for your families. Delta obviously doesn't care about you or your family. Discusting

Major airlines do trips up to 12 days. Even on the DC9 there are 5 days at mainline.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

They're gonna shut down Pinnacle anyway. If that isn't clear from the TA then I don't know what is.

They need 7.5 years to get all other DCI carriers "in line". 2,000+ should be voting "no", but we all know what will happen. The time it takes to get a fraction of the list through the "bridge" program will see Pinnacle no longer in existence anyhow. What is Delta gonna say-- "Oh, you're on long-term leave from a company that has been liquidated? Sure, come in for an interview!" The only pilots who should vote "yay" are maybe the top 500. Everyone else? Buenas Suertes

Delta isn't trying to screw the PCL pilots alone, it's the entire DCI "portfolio". (UA and US and AA to follow.)

 

[Monster Buck]

I wonder how the signing bonus will change things. You sign you get a bonus check and can take a leave, with pay, insurance and take a job at another commuter. Say no, lose job for sure, no bonus check, pay or insurance. I'm not so sure as many will see that and vote no as some think.

You could vote yes and get the money or vote no and get pushed out with nothing. I'm betting more will be swayed by this.

 

[FOrever85]

Havent heard how long you might get stuck with this turd..
Also any duty rigs?
What about deadhead pay?
Had heard rumors of Captains who upgrade start at year 1 pay. Displaced Captains also come back to the left seat at year one pay.. Any truth to that?
Do you still get block or better?

Thanks and good luck!

7 years
deadhead and duty stays the same.
all the captain stuff you mention is not true, but could be if it is rejected and they refile the 1113c. (i know they said they wouldn't but they are compulsive liars)

pay is awful, and really screws the fo and soon to be Fo's

It will actually have a better time passing if we really are just getting shut down. There are a lot of incentives for furloughees. Pay outs, extended health and travel benefits and unemployment. Furloughees will still he getting paid for 3 months and then can collect unemployment.
Delta preferred hiring with class quotas.

If this were a normal contract it would be a no brainer. Unfortunately, we have to decide whether this piece of ******************** is better or worse than a forced bankruptcy contract.

 

[Clutch]

There are better opportunities out there with better pay and hours.. Consider doing something else before you sell out.

 

[mesaba13]

This is way different than Comair. We will become a highly efficient single fleet airline that will be very lean and mean and difficult to compete with. Delta management, ALPA, and 9E management gave high praise to the Pinnacle Pilot group for their professional conduct throughout this. Senior management at Delta has defied the "Comair" logic by saying we will likely be owned by them and we will be operated differently than the status quo. This is very evident by all of the sharp Mesaba management personnel that have been put in very key positions in this new organization. Delta will invest 200 million dollars in us in the near future. Why would they shift any flying away from this entity to SkyWest or anyone else once it is steady state all 900 fleet 2-3 years from now?

We can shut down and take nothing or keep going for another 7.5 years with a lot of movement as hiring is starting everywhere. We have already seen 60 pilots leave in a single month before much hiring at the legacies even started. Downgraded captains have a great shot at getting on with Delta because of the quotas outside the SSP but also because a fair number of lifers may not make it though the SSP or elect to take it because they feel that another guaranteed 7.5 years gets them close enough to punching out. There will not be as many furloughs as everyone seems to think.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

This is way different than Comair. We will become a highly efficient single fleet airline that will be very lean and mean and difficult to compete with.

Read 'cheapest wh___s on the street'

 

[Clutch]

"We get paid dirt.... But our company is lean and mean and cheap."

You're pathetic.

 

[ex j-41]

If you work for free, think of how lean and mean you will be.

 

[MACH-TUCK]

If this TA gets voted down its the end of Pinnacle. There will be no going back to the judge to impose 1113. Delta has said they would start winding us down immediately and close the doors within 12 months.

 

[ex j-41]

So you have a gun to your head. Take the deal or your shot.

Sounds like an integrity call to me.

 

[CRJ puppy]

This is way different than Comair. We will become a highly efficient single fleet airline that will be very lean and mean and difficult to compete with. Delta management, ALPA, and 9E management gave high praise to the Pinnacle Pilot group for their professional conduct throughout this. Senior management at Delta has defied the "Comair" logic by saying we will likely be owned by them and we will be operated differently than the status quo. This is very evident by all of the sharp Mesaba management personnel that have been put in very key positions in this new organization. Delta will invest 200 million dollars in us in the near future. Why would they shift any flying away from this entity to SkyWest or anyone else once it is steady state all 900 fleet 2-3 years from now?

We can shut down and take nothing or keep going for another 7.5 years with a lot of movement as hiring is starting everywhere. We have already seen 60 pilots leave in a single month before much hiring at the legacies even started. Downgraded captains have a great shot at getting on with Delta because of the quotas outside the SSP but also because a fair number of lifers may not make it though the SSP or elect to take it because they feel that another guaranteed 7.5 years gets them close enough to punching out. There will not be as many furloughs as everyone seems to think.

Rose colored glasses always make the world seem better...

 

[rtmcfi]

This is way different than Comair. We will become a highly efficient single fleet airline that will be very lean and mean and difficult to compete with. Delta management, ALPA, and 9E management gave high praise to the Pinnacle Pilot group for their professional conduct throughout this. Senior management at Delta has defied the "Comair" logic by saying we will likely be owned by them and we will be operated differently than the status quo. This is very evident by all of the sharp Mesaba management personnel that have been put in very key positions in this new organization. Delta will invest 200 million dollars in us in the near future. Why would they shift any flying away from this entity to SkyWest or anyone else once it is steady state all 900 fleet 2-3 years from now?

We can shut down and take nothing or keep going for another 7.5 years with a lot of movement as hiring is starting everywhere. We have already seen 60 pilots leave in a single month before much hiring at the legacies even started. Downgraded captains have a great shot at getting on with Delta because of the quotas outside the SSP but also because a fair number of lifers may not make it though the SSP or elect to take it because they feel that another guaranteed 7.5 years gets them close enough to punching out. There will not be as many furloughs as everyone seems to think.

Ummm Comair was owned by Delta. How many planes does Comair have now?
I think delta paid a fortune for Comair, yet they gave every last plane to others.
I thought pinnacle recently was given a long term contract for the 200s. How can you believe anything that your management says?

This is not so different from Comair. I don't see how it could be any more alike.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

So most PCL pilots linger on 35K/ year for the next 5-7 years. Or get a month (really?) of pay and bail to another regional.

Other regional employers dealing with aftereffects of PCL rates:

a) Do not hire

b) Must delcare bankruptcy to get "in line" with the new -900 flying for 50-seat rates.

Come on over to XJET, Eagle, wherever; take your pride and let DL mgmt try to stick it to "stronger" regionals. If they take the -900 flying to mainline, we're all better off in the long term anyhow

I'm outta this debate. Good luck to all of us

 

[ASAFOE120]

This is way different than Comair. We will become a highly efficient single fleet airline that will be very lean and mean and difficult to compete with. Delta management, ALPA, and 9E management gave high praise to the Pinnacle Pilot group for their professional conduct throughout this. Senior management at Delta has defied the "Comair" logic by saying we will likely be owned by them and we will be operated differently than the status quo. This is very evident by all of the sharp Mesaba management personnel that have been put in very key positions in this new organization. Delta will invest 200 million dollars in us in the near future. Why would they shift any flying away from this entity to SkyWest or anyone else once it is steady state all 900 fleet 2-3 years from now?

We can shut down and take nothing or keep going for another 7.5 years with a lot of movement as hiring is starting everywhere. We have already seen 60 pilots leave in a single month before much hiring at the legacies even started. Downgraded captains have a great shot at getting on with Delta because of the quotas outside the SSP but also because a fair number of lifers may not make it though the SSP or elect to take it because they feel that another guaranteed 7.5 years gets them close enough to punching out. There will not be as many furloughs as everyone seems to think.

Sorriest post I've read on FI in a long time. Congratulations sir.

 

[mesaba13]

Way easier to find a job if you have a job. We are the ones with the gun to our heads.

 

[ex j-41]

I am a Captain. If my company told me to accept the deal. I would get downgraded. From making $90k/year to $35k. All because management didn't do their job properly. Other companies can make money with 50 seaters. Why not pinnacle? It isn't the pilots fault so they shouldn't be the ones taking the punishment.
So personally for me i would rather take unemployment then forced to take a 50% pay cut and never ever ever see an upgrade again.

 

[JumpersAway]

ExpressJet should IMMEDIATELY offer employment to Pinnacle pilots, and they should do so without probationary pay! PQ will wind down, it's pilots will have a future at a growing airline ExpressJet won't have to compete against this. ExpressJet ALPA- where are you?

 

[Monster Buck]

other dci carriers "we are all behind you.....as long as you come in behind us!"

 

[Speedtape]

This is way different than Comair. We will become a highly efficient single fleet airline that will be very lean and mean and difficult to compete with.
You will be the lowest paid and the Delta biotch. Comair pilots were'nt prostitutes! How about you?
Delta management, ALPA, and 9E management gave high praise to the Pinnacle Pilot group for their professional conduct throughout this.
Do you have low self esteem and need encouragement from parties who are trying to rob you? They will tell you that you are the chosen one while they rob, pillage, and suck the blood from your Contract! Even a Bankruptcy judge commented that the term sheet was too far reaching and not necessary to achieve a viable company. That was from the Bankruptcy judge!
Senior management at Delta has defied the "Comair" logic by saying we will likely be owned by them and we will be operated differently than the status quo. This is very evident by all of the sharp Mesaba management personnel that have been put in very key positions in this new organization.
And what did being a wholly owned carrier do for Comair and ASA? Delta will never buy you and if they did, there is no benefit. During their ownership and management of ASA, it was the worst run operation in it's history. Every one was miserable.
Delta will invest 200 million dollars in us in the near future. Why would they shift any flying away from this entity to SkyWest or anyone else once it is steady state all 900 fleet 2-3 years from now?
Your reasoning is faulty, hopeful but will end in hopelessness, and will never happen. SkyWest knows how to run a regional airline! Delta could never figure it out. You might consider hoping SkyWest will buy you!

We can shut down and take nothing or keep going for another 7.5 years with a lot of movement as hiring is starting everywhere. We have already seen 60 pilots leave in a single month before much hiring at the legacies even started.
Your job, if it even exists, will be a terrible one under the proposed rules. This is not the last offer, don't fold!
Downgraded captains have a great shot at getting on with Delta because of the quotas outside the SSP but also because a fair number of lifers may not make it though the SSP or elect to take it because they feel that another guaranteed 7.5 years gets them close enough to punching out. There will not be as many furloughs as everyone seems to think.

There will be plenty of jobs everywhere in the near future with the other majors that now have the Delta-esk contract. In fact, other airlines will be hiring right after the first of the year that have more retirements coming than Delta. It has been stated that Delta will not be hiring at all in 2013 and beyond is still iffy for now. American is the gold mind.

Your arguments sound like a person in Management--and maybe so.

 

[rtmcfi]

Delta to all dci carriers "we are all behind you.....as long as you come in behind us!"

Fixed it for you...

 

[FOrever85]

If this TA gets voted down its the end of Pinnacle. There will be no going back to the judge to impose 1113. Delta has said they would start winding us down immediately and close the doors within 12 months.

I agree with your overall sentiment, but disagree on the last 2 points. Why won't they shut us down under an imposed contract? They could have it in place by February( they have now satisfied all requirements). Think of the money they save by not paying out the bankruptcy claim, furlough benefits, etc.....
The best part for Delta...NOW PAY ATTENTION OTHER REGIONAL PILOTS!!!!!!!

That will be the new, even lower contract other regionals will be up against. You guys are dreaming if you think you are going to get 9e planes at your current rates(except for maybe gojets)
Comair going out of business hasn't helped the industry, why would 9e be any different?
Yeah, it sucks, but as usual, delta management wins.


There is no way they could have this place closed in 12 months. It is going to take 6 months to wind down the 16 900's,. How in the world can they wind down 180 planes?



Either way this sucks.

 

[ASAFOE120]

Way easier to find a job if you have a job. So ASA fo you don't have the gun to your head so STFU.

Appreciate the profanity. I did not use it toward you sir. Very childish.

And be assured that if this passes I will have the gun to my head soon enough. And if I am offered the rates that you have been offered to fly around 76 pax, I will say no thanks and go do something else. This job will no longer be worth it.

 

[Speedtape]

Way easier to find a job if you have a job. So ASA fo you don't have the gun to your head so STFU.

Well, maybe you don't see the big picture! What you do affects everybody! So lay off the condescending foul mouth acronyms. We all have a stake in your decisions.

 

[mesaba13]

So where are you guys and skywest getting your 900's from? Oh yeah you are cheaper than Comair and 9E so your taking them. How can you dare criticize anyone else when you are taking others flying because your cheaper. I was in an ASA jumpseat when the crew had just found out about getting some Comair planes and not once did they worry about Comair pilots plight, only what Domicile there would be upgrades in!

So we are suppose to vote it down and all be out of work in less than a year and not current when trying to apply at the legacies? It takes more than a year to get on with a good airline.

The regional airline is one of no leverage that you can't plan on a career at and most of us just want to stay current and get out before the 900 becomes obsolete like the 200. We will probably never take your flying either because we will be too big of a 900 operator to get anything else. Wheres all the hate towards Compass who is still way cheaper than us?

 

[ASAFOE120]

So where are you guys and skywest getting your 900's from? Oh yeah you are cheaper than Comair and 9E so your taking them. How can you dare criticize anyone else when you are taking others flying because your cheaper. I was in an ASA jumpseat when the crew had just found out about getting some Comair planes and not once did they worry about Comair pilots plight, only what Domicile there would be upgrades in!

So we are suppose to vote it down and all be out of work in less than a year and not current when trying to apply at the legacies? It takes more than a year to get on with a good airline.

The regional airline is one of no leverage that you can't plan on a career at and most of us just want o stay current and get out before the 900 becomes obsolete like the 200. We will probably never take your flying either because we will be too big of a 900 operator to get anything else. Wheres all the hate towards Compass who is still way cheaper than us?

I have yet to vote on a contract to undercut my fellow regional airline pilots to take flying/aircraft from them. And ALPA knows darn well that this TA will put pressure on ALL regional pilots to take concessions and should be ashamed of themselves for signing off on this. SHAME ON YOU ALPA.

 

[mesaba13]

You may not have voted on a contract but your company is taking others flying as we speak and your union has not turned it down on principal. You are asking us to possibly end our flying careers and shut this thing down before AMR, United, etc get into a major hiring cylcle. All so that I can hold the bar up for you and you can have my job.

Sorry about the profanity, that is not normally my MO and there is no excuse!

 

[mesaba13]

People are asking when the Bridge payout occurs. I was told by union lawyer that it is expected to be March 2013.